OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, B10M said:

Here's a better pic... 

 

Also, the slide bars, I've had the body off a d they will not straighten up sadly, I think the only way to straighten these would be to try and remove them from the cylinder blocks and refit them at a better angle. 

 

 

 

I think the comment is more about the turned up ends to the slide bars, they should be straight and Hornby's attempt is much better in comparison.

Dapol have made an absolute mess of the motion. There were a lot of negative comments about the Mogul's (same wheels/motion/layout) but nothing much seems to have changed.

 

IMHO, using a football analogy, with the Mogul they had an undefended goal and Dapol kicked the ball wide, with the Prairie, Hornby left half the goal open and Dapol hit the bar.

 

 

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, B10M said:

Here's a better pic... 

 

Also, the slide bars, I've had the body off a d they will not straighten up sadly, I think the only way to straighten these would be to try and remove them from the cylinder blocks and refit them at a better angle. 

 

The running plate being bent is a tad disappointing, not even going to attempt a fix.

 

Maybe the slidebar bracket isn't locating under the running plate properly. Just ease it gently one way or the other and it might click up into a better position, bringing the slide bars up to a better angle too. So this should be fixable at home.

 

If you're suggesting that the running plate is bent on the basis of the gap between it and side tanks, that was not my experience - both appeared straight to me (within reasonable tolerance). The gap is simply that the tank moulding doesn't clip down onto the running plate properly - something is holding them apart, probably at the smokebox end. This is not fixable at home without serious surgery (i.e. you have to break some glued joints). I returned my two Prairies because of the gap and, as I write this, a new pair (I hope) have just been delivered to the front door. Fingers crossed, they will not have the gap any more!

 

The rear pony truck is designed to be chunky and bear on the underside of the bunker (actually under the rear tank). There are two problems with it aside from that: 1. The rear axle doesn't have enough travel in the pony and 2. The springs on the rear axle are too strong. This is fixable at home. See @outatime's posts above.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Harlequin

[Butler Henderson]

Is it just a case the baseplate as reported earlier on the thread is too tight?

[melmerby]

The sandbox is also misaligned.

[Harlequin]

Just checked my new pair:

5108 mark II definitely has closer fitting tanks to running plates.

(Notice the same bent handrail as B10M's straight out of the box.)

 

5109 mark II is also better than the original but the gap is still visible on the right hand side...

 

I think I could live with these. Need to spend some time looking them over fully and decide.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Harlequin

[boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Just checked my new pair:

5108 mark II definitely has closer fitting tanks to running plates.

(Notice the same bent handrail as B10M's straight out of the box.)

 

5109 mark II is also better than the original but the gap is still visible on the right hand side...

 

I think I could live with these. Need to spend some time looking them over fully and decide.

 

Are the hand rails plastic?

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Hornby left half the goal open and Dapol hit the bar.

As a West Brom fan I'd take that.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

As a West Brom fan I'd take that.

Counts as a goal?

[57xx]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Maybe the slidebar bracket isn't locating under the running plate properly. Just ease it gently one way or the other and it might click up into a better position, bringing the slide bars up to a better angle too. So this should be fixable at home.

 

The ends of the slidebars flare outwards. They should be parallel along the whole length. As Melmerby mentioned, this was pointed out on the 63xx Mogul when it arrived (the engineering samples did not have this problem) and nothing has been fixed for the Prairie. I was considering getting one of the forthcoming 43xx Moguls, but if they still haven't fixed it, I'll probably just save myself some dosh.

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

The ends of the slidebars flare outwards. They should be parallel along the whole length. As Melmerby mentioned, this was pointed out on the 63xx Mogul when it arrived (the engineering samples did not have this problem) and nothing has been fixed for the Prairie. I was considering getting one of the forthcoming 43xx Moguls, but if they still haven't fixed it, I'll probably just save myself some dosh.

Oh sure, I know about the inherent problems in the modelling of the slide bars but I thought they were angled oddly on B10M’s version, suggesting that something wasn’t lined up right.

 

[B10M]

6 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Maybe the slidebar bracket isn't locating under the running plate properly. Just ease it gently one way or the other and it might click up into a better position, bringing the slide bars up to a better angle too. So this should be fixable at home.

 

If you're suggesting that the running plate is bent on the basis of the gap between it and side tanks, that was not my experience - both appeared straight to me (within reasonable tolerance). The gap is simply that the tank moulding doesn't clip down onto the running plate properly - something is holding them apart, probably at the smokebox end. This is not fixable at home without serious surgery (i.e. you have to break some glued joints). I returned my two Prairies because of the gap and, as I write this, a new pair (I hope) have just been delivered to the front door. Fingers crossed, they will not have the gap any more!

 

The rear pony truck is designed to be chunky and bear on the underside of the bunker (actually under the rear tank). There are two problems with it aside from that: 1. The rear axle doesn't have enough travel in the pony and 2. The springs on the rear axle are too strong. This is fixable at home. See @outatime's posts above.

 

Cheers, I have tried jently relocation of the slide bars (there is a little lug & hole) but it's not having any of it unfortunately.

 

 

My running board is ever so slightly bent from just behind the leading driver forward, the extended frames fore of the smokebox is bent too but in the opposite way! 

 

The chunky trailing truck I see has an advantage so will just deepen the axle slots slightly so at least the drivers return to the rail heads.

 

Cheers

[B10M]

Here are the pics as promised, I've blackened the buffers, wheel tyres and went for polished axles but apart from that it's how it came from Dapol.

 

The slide bar is better on the right side as pictured 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by B10M

[melmerby]

As previously mentioned, the LH slide bars are sagging downwards at the end. The motion bracket has clear air above it when it should be tucked up tight under the frame.

IMHO it looks like someone has bent the end up on the upper slide so that the connecting rod doesn't foul it.

Compare it to the RH side which is almost straight.

Edited December 21, 2021 by melmerby

[B10M]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

As previously mentioned, the LH slide bars are sagging downwards at the end. The motion bracket has clear air above it when it should be tucked up tight under the frame.

IMHO it looks like someone has bent the end up on the upper slide so that the connecting rod doesn't foul it.

Compare it to the RH side which is almost straight.

I know mate cheers, I contemplated sending it back - it was the first thing I noticed upon opening

[Hilux5972]

Have just purchased a prairie to compare with Hornbys. Went with the lined black BRITISH RAILWAYS version. Different livery and will be good to have something different I think. 

[gwrrob]

An informative review on these in the latest BRM by @AY Mod that's worth a butchers.

[gwrrob]

On 23/12/2021 at 07:05, Hilux5972 said:

Have just purchased a prairie to compare with Hornbys. Went with the lined black BRITISH RAILWAYS version. Different livery and will be good to have something different I think. 

 

Here's mine with a plain smokebox door and crew now fitted.

 

[Hilux5972]

17 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Here's mine with a plain smokebox door and crew now fitted.

 

Where did you get the plain door from? Did they still carry the GWR style number on the bufferbeam with this livery at the start?

[Hal Nail]

3 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Did they still carry the GWR style number on the bufferbeam with this livery at the start?

 

Just killing some time waiting for santa...

 

Probably not. Immediately after nationalisation, some locos were turned out in the old company liveries (ie plain green for a tank) but without any branding with British Railways then being added later, so it could have happened there perhaps. By the time BR liveries had been settled on, seems unlikely a loco would be repainted but ignoring just the bufferbeams.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43787-post-nationalisation-smokebox-numbers/

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html

Edited December 25, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Ian Hargrave]

7 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Where did you get the plain door from? Did they still carry the GWR style number on the bufferbeam with this livery at the start?

It is surprising how many GWR locomotives carried both their lettering and numeric emblems way past BR days.So I would imagine….though I have neither documentary nor photographic evidence to prove the point…that such a combination is distinctly possible. Swindon tradition died hard. .Happy Christmas 

[The Johnster]

I think the slide bars are a deal breaker should I ever want another large prairied to go with my Hornby; it screams wrongness to my view and if it can't be easily fixed Dap have spoiled  their ship for ha'porth of tar.  The Hornby isn't perfect, but it looks better than this model, and I'm happy with it.  Splayed slide bars seem to be a common problem on old K's kits, and I think a 21st century model should be better than that!

 

If Dap don't sort this out it will harm sales of the Mogul and Manor.

[gwrrob]

12 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Where did you get the plain door from? 

 

DCC Supplies.

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I think the slide bars are a deal breaker should I ever want another large prairied to go with my Hornby; it screams wrongness to my view and if it can't be easily fixed Dap have spoiled  their ship for ha'porth of tar.  The Hornby isn't perfect, but it looks better than this model, and I'm happy with it.  Splayed slide bars seem to be a common problem on old K's kits, and I think a 21st century model should be better than that!

 

If Dap don't sort this out it will harm sales of the Mogul and Manor.

Dapol have done this (splayed the ends of the slide bars) as their solution to the geometry of the motion specific to the mogul and large prairie.  On the prototype the problem was overcome by milling a slot in the lower slide bars to permit the passage of the connecting rods, I am not sure how Hornby have avoided the connecting rods hitting the slide bars but they will have deviated from the prototype dimensions in one or more ways to get it to work.  On my hand built models I filed a chamfer on the ends of the slide bars to achieve the required clearance.  
The geometry of the Manor is different and there is no issue with the connecting rods hitting the slide bars ( on the prototype) and it is therefore unlikely that Dapol will use the same slide bar castings on their model, but time will tell.

Frank

Edited December 25, 2021 by Chuffer Davies
Spelling

[boxbrownie]

Oddly at the beginning of 2021 in one of the advanced news releases of the Dapol Prairie the slide bars appeared to be perfectly straight.

Edited December 25, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Oddly at the beginning of 2021 in one of the advanced news releases of the Dapol Prairie the slide bars appeared to be perfectly straight.

But interestingly on close inspection the lower slide bar has a chamfer at the end.  This would almost certainly have been sufficient to prevent the connecting rod hitting the lower slide bar.  Why Dapol then changed their minds is a mystery we may never be able to resolve.

Frank