Hornby Announce SR 4-6-0 Lord Nelson

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Not that old urban myth again. 

 

BR green was a set shade. There was no variation and it wasn't mixed in a big bath tub by an old bloke that had been on the ale the night before....

 

Any deviation on colour would have been a sacking offence and by the 1950s most paint was being bought in from the paint manufacturers anyway.

 

 

Jason

 

EXACTLY !!!!

 

Any two locos painted / repainted in BR loco green were clearly the same colour when viewed in close proximity.

 

I know this as an attendee at BR works open days / works visits throughout the early / mid 1960s.

 

At both Derby and Swindon loco works I saw, side by side or end to end, brand new diesel locos and overhauled / repainted steam locos. The former were unlined, whereas most, but not all of the latter were lined orange / black / orange. Though the lining did affect the perception of the shade of green, close inspection showed that there was no actual difference whatsoever.

 

Clearly, in service green locos varied hugely in appearance, BUT THIS WAS ENTIRELY DUE TO THE EFFECTS OF TIME AND WEATHERING.

 

To represent the prototype, all model green BR locos should emerge from the factory in the same, (easily correctly specified), shade of green - as per the real thing. If the ultimate aim is a faded, workworn loco due for shopping, this can be achieved by weathering the model.

 

I would repeat - there can be no justification for issuing models in fictitious shades of green.

 

CJI.

[Forester]

15 hours ago, cctransuk said:

I would repeat - there can be no justification for issuing models in fictitious shades of green.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely right!

[adb968008]

On 04/01/2022 at 18:56, cctransuk said:

I would repeat - there can be no justification for issuing models in fictitious shades of green.

I’ll rise to your challenge, history always provides exceptions…

 

in 1989 the wrong shade of Green was used in 7828 Odney Manors first overhaul, it ran for at least 3-4 years in what I can only describe as a Hornby shade of GWR green.

 

its not unique to the GWR either…

 

and this is certainly Red…

 

 

 

if preservation cant get the livery right, what chance a model company of full time CAD or Graphic designers who may or may not have an enthusiast background, or any railway history.

of course true fiction…. Anything is possible.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

But, in this day and age, paint codes that are generally accepted to be authentic are known to established enthusiast bodies (LMS Society etc) and paint manufacturers. Neither treat them as trade secrets, and anybody who cares enough can access them. 

 

All that said, if (like me) you accept the principle of "scale colour" then a shade that indisputably is correct, and looks perfect on a full-size vehicle, can look anything but when reduced to 1:76th scale.

 

I refer the jury to BR(S) coach green(s). Bachmann did a pale version that looked much closer than it really was, and a dead-right one that looked far too dark. Hornby use a shade that is somewhere in between, but which most of us find acceptable even if we don't consider it to be quite "there".

 

I worry slightly in what shade the new Bachmann Bulleids will emerge. Hopefully they won't be too proud to use a third shade closer to Hornby's

 

John

Edited January 5, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I’ll rise to your challenge, history always provides exceptions .....

 

Some of the crimes that were perpetrated in the name of preservation are best forgotten!!!!

 

CJI.

[rogerzilla]

Odd that they've chosen 864 for the malachite LN, since the Bachmann split chassis one, available NOS or barely used for £50,  is the same example.  I'm sure it's better than the Bachmann one, but not four times better.   Mine runs very nicely.

[Opelsi]

Would love 850 in SR Malachite (maybe as an NRM special)!

[melmerby]

On 05/07/2022 at 16:17, rogerzilla said:

Odd that they've chosen 864 for the malachite LN, since the Bachmann split chassis one, available NOS or barely used for £50,  is the same example.  I'm sure it's better than the Bachmann one, but not four times better.   Mine runs very nicely.

Of course the minute you take delivery of your new £200 loco a big chunk of the cost has vanished, so its not 4 times more at the same point in it's life cycle.

Anyway 864 is actually just over £150 from some of the box shifters.

[Wickham Green too]

On 07/07/2022 at 21:51, Opelsi said:

Would love 850 in SR Malachite (maybe as an NRM special)!

We really are getting into a hornets' nest with that preserved livery .......... the malachite green was authentic but why, oh why did they put Maunsell-era insignia on it !

Edited July 14, 2022 by Wickham Green too
spilling

[Chuffed 1]

Notice that the next Nelson is Sir Walter Raleigh in Southern and early BR liveries.

An odd choice for the latter as it received a MN chimney in January 1956 and the long boiler two years later (and late crest two years after that).

So unless it has a unique chimney and the unique long boiler it’s only accurate for 1952-5 inclusive.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Chuffed 1

[Mallard60022]

It's a damn fine model. Wish they would just produce a couple more decent BR late50s and early 60s versions for variety. I'd pay a bit extra for s Special Edition.

Phil.

[Steamport Southport]

On 21/04/2023 at 17:26, Chuffed 1 said:

Notice that the next Nelson is Sir Walter Raleigh in Southern and early BR liveries.

An odd choice for the latter as it received a MN chimney in January 1956 and the long boiler two years later (and late crest two years after that).

So unless it has a unique chimney and the unique long boiler it’s only accurate for 1952-5 inclusive.

 

 

And? They've released models of Flying Scotsman that are only relevant for a few weeks whilst it was on display in Wembley. 

 

The new Channel Packet was also in the livery of the model for a very short time and is now "sold out" I believe. ISTR that the cast numberplates were removed as they were too heavy.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/sr-merchant-navy-class-4-6-2-21c1-channel-packet-era-3-r3434

 

So they can only release models if the loco lasted years in the same livery? What a bizarre idea.

 

 

 

Jason

[Jack P]

I'd not realised that 864 was to be released with the gold letters/numerals, the pointed N in 'SOUTHERN' and painted/lined steps. 

 

 

Still, it looks excellent.

Did this class also have the cab front painted black later in life in malachite livery? I don't have any resource to hand to check. 

[Graham_Muz]

864 was the first LN to gain the Bulleid 'standard' malachite scheme ex works 10th June 1939 and indeed have gilt style lettering and numerals, including at that time the 9" bufferbeam numbers (later painted locos had 6" numerals) 

 

The 'golden yellow' lettering replaced the 'Gilt' from September 1941. 
 

Eastleigh started painting cab fronts black from 1946 you would need to refer to pictures to see if she gained such when repainted after the war and before she gained experimental apple green in 1949. 

Edited April 7 by Graham_Muz

[Fair Oak Junction]

Nice to see the Malachite Nelson finally break cover FOUR YEARS after being announced!! 🤣

Hornby apparently emulating how Bachmann used to be 😉

[rogerzilla]

I finally twigged on Friday why Swindon has a Frobisher Drive intersecting Raleigh Avenue.  Who says railway modelling is a waste of time?

[Graham_Muz]

34 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

I finally twigged on Friday why Swindon has a Frobisher Drive intersecting Raleigh Avenue.  Who says railway modelling is a waste of time?

Indeed good to see that Swindon could recognise such good locos... 

[No Decorum]

On 07/04/2024 at 12:05, Graham_Muz said:

Indeed good to see that Swindon could recognise such good locos... 

I think that Richard Maunsell is an under-rated CME. It was hard luck that his magnum opus was a bit of a dud, or at least didn’t live up to expectation. Bulleid apparently transformed them. I recall that when Lord Nelson itself was restored to mainline running order, its poor reputation had persisted. The first run, I believe, was a failure due to scale in an injector but the crew was full of admiration for the loco on the next run. One thing on my long to-do list is to get hold of a publication to find out what the problem was and exactly what Bulleid did, over and above tweak the steam passages and fit a Lemaître exhaust.

 

That Hornby model looks good. I have an LN in BR green and I think it’s about the worst looking object I have from when Hornby was making a mess of BR and GWR greens.

[GrumpyPenguin]

On 07/04/2024 at 03:46, Jack P said:

I'd not realised that 864 was to be released with the gold letters/numerals, the pointed N in 'SOUTHERN' and painted/lined steps. 

 

 

Still, it looks excellent.

Did this class also have the cab front painted black later in life in malachite livery? I don't have any resource to hand to check. 

Still that huge gap between the locomotive & tender - completly unacceptable in this day and age.

[jonnyuk]

3 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Still that huge gap between the locomotive & tender - completly unacceptable in this day and age.

you can change the draw bar to bring them closer, but you maybe compromised on R2 curves. this is not new tooling, things have changed in the last 2 years, and indeed Hornby with their new tool stuff does have close coupling.

[GrumpyPenguin]

3 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

you can change the draw bar to bring them closer, but you maybe compromised on R2 curves. this is not new tooling, things have changed in the last 2 years, and indeed Hornby with their new tool stuff does have close coupling.

Maybe it's not completly new tooling but could have been done with relatively little work.

Edited April 9 by GrumpyPenguin

[Graham_Muz]

41 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Maybe it's not completly new tooing but could have been done with relatively little work.

But you can already couple it up closer than the image shows so it's not a problem. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

10 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

But you can already couple it up closer than the image shows so it's not a problem. 

Unless your layout has prototypical scale curves & you want to actually run it, then it certainly is a problem.

[Graham_Muz]

9 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Unless your layout has prototypical scale curves & you want to actually run it, then it certainly is a problem.

Then perhaps such unprototypicical curves are unacceptable in this day and age... 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 hours ago, No Decorum said:

...exactly what Bulleid did, over and above tweak the steam passages and fit a Lemaître exhaust.

That's what he did at the front end, though rather more than 'tweak' the steam passages: it was all about enlarged porting in the valves and cylinders, which combined with the much larger entrainment area of the  multiple jet ejector exhaust meant that the steam did more work in power delivery instead of overcoming back pressure, and supplied a better smokebox vacuum to draw the fire proportional to the power demand.

 

There had clearly been some doubt about the steam raising of the LN boiler, so he also tried a round top boiler, but with the improved front end that proved unnecessary. (The firebox draughting may have been looked at as well; I haven't read anything about that, but it was a regular bogey haunting UK steam designs.)