Karhedron Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I remember reading when the Networkers were introduced that a 10-EPB (however it was made up) was the limit of what the track could power when they were accelerating. The track could handle 12 of the lighter Networkers with their regenerative braking. I don't know if that statement was accurate but it might be another reason why 5x2-EPB would be acceptable while 6 would not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2011 According to SR working instructions you can run 5x2EPB together in a train but not six together. That would require dispensation due to the slight excess of length caused by so many intermediate couplers and the need to isolate one set of motors due to current draw. So as and when the various versions are available feel free to make up trains as you wish - but no more than 10 cars! Rick - I can't quite square the current index thing. 6 x 2-EPB would be an index of 12, and in most places 16 was the limit. The length thing is another matter, as you say - you'd never have got the starter off at CX! That said - let he/she who has 12-EPB show off on RMWeb and I will be suitably amazed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 An NSE 416 is highly likely though I believe there was only one painted (6229?). If the interior was modified to all open in the trailer the refurbished 64xx series could be produced. An NSE 411 (and Jaffa,SWT)is unlikely at the moment as it will require new DMS and TBCK bodies with hopper vent windows. They were extensively rebuilt in the early 80's. From my records the following carried Network SouthEast livery (with curved upsweeps at ends): 6225- c7/92 (ex 5725) 6229- c7/98 (ex 5729) 6241- 7/89 (ex 5741) 6249- 10/92 (ex 5749) 6402- 24/2/89 (ex 6248,5748) 6403- 30/1/89 (ex 6242,5742) 6404- 21/3/89 (ex 6215,5715) 6405- 23/3/89 (ex 6233,5733) 6406- 27/4/89 (ex 6206,5706) 6407- 10/5/89 (ex 6216,5716) 6408- 6/89 (ex 6228,5728) 6410- 20/9/89 (ex 6210,5710) 6411- 25/8/89 (ex 6219,5719) 6412- 12/89 (ex 6250,5750) 6413- 12/89 (ex 6258,5758) 6414- c1/90 (ex 6254,5754) 6415- 13/3/90 (ex 6234,5734) 6416- c4/90 (ex 6214,5714) 6417- c4/90 (ex 6252,5752) 6418- 10/5/90 (ex 6246,5746) This was the last livery carried by any of the above units. The Bachmann model covers the following units only- 6413 and 6414. The other units would need modifications suitable for the appropriate batch. Hope the above is useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Many thanks for the above info. Hadn't realised there were as many as four 62xx painted in NSE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Just to complete the early livery history of the 2-EPB units here is a list of those in green with full yellow ends (from usual list supplied by John Atkinson). It should be noted that the units were not necessarily given a new coat of green on the date shown- it is possible that the existing paint was merely re-varnished. The full yellow ends would have been applied form this date however. 23 units carried green with full yellow ends- all but two being from the first batch. The next livery of all of the units listed was blue with full yellow ends. 5702- 16/10/68- 14/4/71 5703- 16/11/68- 14/4/71 (last unit left in this livery) 5705- 12/11/68- 6/4/71 5712- 22/9/67- 20/11/70 5714- 18/6/68- 15/4/71 5717- 8/8/68- 4/4/71 5722- 27/6/68- 4/70 5723- 11/9/67- 12/11/70 (1st into this livery) 5725- 13/12/67- 18/3/70 5727- 5/6/68- 15/12/70 5736- 30/11/67- by 3/70 5740- 13/10/67- 3/12/69 5741- 12/1/68- 12/70 5742- ?/68- 6/7/71 5746- 16/2/68- 11/5/71 5747- 13/11/67- 25/11/70 5748- 25/9/68- 6/7/71 5749- 18/3/68- 4/12/70 5750- 22/11/67- by 2/70 5751- 30/10/67- by 10/70 5752- 16/10/68- 3/6/71 5758- 13/5/68- 11/7/70 5769- 2/11/67- 3/12/70 In addition 5782/83/84/88/90/91/92/93/94 of the Tyneside units were also painted in green with full yellow ends- dates available on request if interested. Hope the above is of use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My Green 2epb eBay purchase arrived today, luvly jubbly. Still waiting for my Hattons pre order. Lenz silver+21 pin DCC chip on it's way, cant wait to get it on the track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 According to SR working instructions you can run 5x2EPB together in a train but not six together. 3 x 4EPB, however, did happen, at least as empty stock workings. Also, I am sure I saw 2 2HAPs standing in for a 4CEP in a 12-car formation once. Also, though this was an exception, there was a time when there were strikes on icy days, causing problems the next morning. On one such occasion, the SR mustered all the diesels it could and had them pull (and push) 12EPB formations around to try to provide some sort of service. (even if trains did stick out the ends of platforms). From one extreme to another: I have also occasionally seen MLVs working light, i.e. bombing down the line (e.g. at Beckenham Jct) all on their own - that is a wierd sight! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 From my records the following carried Network SouthEast livery (with curved upsweeps at ends): 6225- c7/92 (ex 5725) 6229- c7/98 (ex 5729) 6241- 7/89 (ex 5741) 6249- 10/92 (ex 5749) Hi. Can I ask - did you actually see these units painted in NSE - The only record I could find of any of the non-refurb units being painted in NSE was 6229 - this coming from a Platform 5 book, never an actual sighting (I sometimes considered the Platform 5 books to be dubious when it came to liveries (particularly on SR units). I've never even seen a picture of a non-refurb 2EPB in NSE either - although willing to be proven wrong. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi. Can I ask - did you actually see these units painted in NSE - The only record I could find of any of the non-refurb units being painted in NSE was 6229 - this coming from a Platform 5 book, never an actual sighting (I sometimes considered the Platform 5 books to be dubious when it came to liveries (particularly on SR units). I've never even seen a picture of a non-refurb 2EPB in NSE either - although willing to be proven wrong. Steve As I have stated in other posts detailing the liveries, the details are from the records of John Atkinson who works in one of the southern area Control and has been able to get the official dates- usually on leaving works- as they occurred or from direct observation. The earlier details are from the records of Keith Gunner who took the trouble to record 'Paint dates' off units at this time. Units with an exact date shown are mostly those from Keith's list, this being the 'Paint date' when unit had work completed at works, they were usually released back to their home depots a few days later and went back into traffic about a week after the date shown. So in response to your question no I did not actually see the units concerned although I have no reason to doubt John or Keith's records and consider them both to be creditable sources. You mention non-refurb 2EPB units in NSE. According to John's list the only non refurb units to carry NSE were those 62xx numbers above- and they were merely TOPS renumbering I think rather than being facelifted. I hope the above explanation is satisfactory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 20, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2011 3 x 4EPB, however, did happen ..... I saw 2 2HAPs standing in for a 4CEP Perfectly acceptable. The restriction on 6x2EPB arose because of the number of intermediate couplers (five) which occupy rather more length than the 3-link and buffer between the vehicles. 3x4EPB has 2 intermediate couplers, 4Hap+8Cep has 3. Those combinations were shorter than a 6x2EPB would have been. 6x2Hap (sometimes referred to as 12Hap) is not something I have encountered but on the SWD main lines it is possible that signal sections and overlaps, plus platform lengths, were a little more generous than on the SED commuter routes and thus permitted this combination. Waterloo can easily accommodate 12 coaches in some platforms (loco + 12 in a few) where Charing Cross can barely manage 12 coaches within the signals for example. I'll defer to Ian's superior knowledge of CRI since as he says 12EPB would only draw index 12 and 16 was the line norm but I still have in mind the need to cut out one set of motors if 6x2EPB ran coupled. 12EPB ran the "Bicycle Belle" services between Victoria and Brighton for the annual bike ride for several years until they were no longer available; while 3x4 were usually used 2x4 plus 2x2 also appeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 . It is my understanding that Southern Region EMUs were painted "brunswick green" up to 1956 when "stock green" gradually replaced it (????) 1: Is that true, and if so does anyone know when the first unit was painted in "stock green" and, also, when the last unit was so painted ? 2: Was there any particular reason for the change ? 3: The first picture I have found of a SR EMU with a small yellow panel is dated "13th September 1964" does anyone know of an earlier date ? (Likewise, the latest green with small yellow panel photo I have seen is "July 1970") 4: The thing I really remember about the green colour was how clean they usually were, and how seemingly polished ( supposedly due to the varnish finish used (????) ) Thanks. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I don't think the SR ever used Brunswick green on its stock. You may be getting confused with the Eastleigh built LMR stock, later class 501. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Anybody managed to get the lid off the 2epb to fit a decoder? I've got the body released all the way down to the back, but the last bit refuses to come apart. Ive got plasticard inserted a few mm but can't get it past the clips to release the body. Don't know why Bachmann make it so difficult to take apart when they know some buyers will want to fit a DCC decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Anybody managed to get the lid off the 2epb to fit a decoder? I've got the body released all the way down to the back, but the last bit refuses to come apart. Ive got plasticard inserted a few mm but can't get it past the clips to release the body. Don't know why Bachmann make it so difficult to take apart when they know some buyers will want to fit a DCC decoder. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37425-Bachmann-2-epb-photo-review/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks for that Andy. I've got all the clips released bar one, it just doesn't want to let go. Maybe i'm trying too hard. Update - Lenz Silver fitted and happily running around my test track, wonderful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I had difficulty with releasing the wire conduit attachment at the rear - I ended up leaving it attached and fitting the decoder with the body and chassis "hinged" at the back by the still attached wire! Like you, tender, I also use the Lenz Silver decoders for the EPBs and CEPs as they seem to give excellent smooth control with these particular mechanisms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I had difficulty with releasing the wire conduit attachment at the rear - I ended up leaving it attached and fitting the decoder with the body and chassis "hinged" at the back by the still attached wire!.... Exactly what I did, with no apparent ill effects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Southern Hobbit Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 In stock now at Hattons - just ordered mine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Anybody still waiting for a plain green one? I pre-ordered mine from Hattons ages ago, but stock seems to have come in and gone out, but not mine! I hope there's more to come, although Bachmann's website doesn't say so. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Anybody still waiting for a plain green one? I pre-ordered mine from Hattons ages ago, but stock seems to have come in and gone out, but not mine! I hope there's more to come, although Bachmann's website doesn't say so. Paul. Just checked again, now they are showing back in stock. I'm still waiting..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 In stock now at Hattons - just ordered mine Thanks for that Southern Hobbit. But, Which one are you talking about please, Green, Blue, Blue/grey ?? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Southern Hobbit Posted June 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2011 Thanks for that Southern Hobbit. But, Which one are you talking about please, Green, Blue, Blue/grey ?? Mike 31-376 - The plain green one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 31-376 - The plain green one Ahhh, Thanks! Still waiting for the Blue/Grey one then . Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Just received notification from Hattons the plain green one is on it's way to me, so they are here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Ok, any brave soul managed to convert one to EM or P4 yet? If so, how did you deal with the narrow bogie mouldings - the Bachmann axles are only 23.5mm over pin points! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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