Great Model Railway Challenge - Channel 5

[newbryford]

 As others have said railway modelling is not a competitive sport and so doesn’t really fit a time challenge .

 

Neither are baking, cooking, house makeovers or gardening, but TV seems to have made them so.

[Ian Morgan]

Well, at least one independent reviewer seemed to enjoy it (Warning, some bad language, but a good read nevertheless)

 

https://medium.com/@piratemoggy/the-great-model-railway-challenge-recap-s1-e1-164625ed2e20

 

 

Also, I found a model aircraft forum discussing the programme. Apparently, many model flying clubs are getting new members following the Model Battle Squadron programmes on C4 recently.

[hmrspaul]

Well, at least one independent reviewer seemed to enjoy it (Warning, some bad language, but a good read nevertheless)

 

https://medium.com/@piratemoggy/the-great-model-railway-challenge-recap-s1-e1-164625ed2e20

 

 

Also, I found a model aircraft forum discussing the programme. Apparently, many model flying clubs are getting new members following the Model Battle Squadron programmes on C4 recently.

Thank you for the heads up. That is an excellent, amusingly written, summary, very accurate from my memory - I haven't pored over repeats! Well worth a read to get the whole item into perspective.

 

Paul

[gr.king]

I doubt that many (if any) reasonably sane railway modellers and potential new railway modellers would expect a nationally screened MRJTV, but remember that Bob Symes and the BBC, even way back in the 1970s, managed to include some reasonably serious railway modelling in the Model World series. That included sincere rather than gimmicky or falsely dramatized coverage of an attempt at a realistic portrayal of an actual location, albeit with the limitations imposed by using certain ready made items of the time, such as Mr Pritchard's girder-rail track. There was even a certain amount of coverage of such "technically complex" things as switches arranged to double up as point levers. No cheap false moments of tension, drama or approaching deadlines were considered necessary for the purposes of "entertainment", simply because no such need exists.

The potential for attainment of at least some sort of realism is the one and only thing that has kept me interested in railway modelling as an adult (or big kid) and I suspect the same is true for many of us. It's an opportunity to create a visually convincing, moving, physical, three dimensional representation of our railways in a classic era that I am too young to have seen in reality.Given that the very best ready made products now offer far better realism than was attainable "out of a box" in the 1970s, then even without MRJ style coverage of scratch building or elaborate kit-building, a modern version of a programme that might kindle and maintain serious interest rather than simply provide short-attention-span "kicks" ought to be perfectly possible.

Edited October 8, 2018 by gr.king

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I doubt that many (if any) reasonably sane railway modellers and potential new railway modellers would expect a nationally screened MRJTV, but remember that Bob Symes and the BBC, even way back in the 1970s, managed to include some reasonably serious railway modelling in the Model World series.

 

I don't disagree with you, but this is not the 1970's - things have moved on. 

 

If you want to attract new YOUNGER modellers you have to speak their language and adopt their norms - the GBO is a format they know and understand and so the programme makers are half-way there before they start.

[hmrspaul]

, a modern version of a programme that might kindle and maintain serious interest rather than simply provide short-attention-span "kicks" ought to be perfectly possible.

 

And if this is successful, and they realise there are hundreds of thousands of home modellers out there whom don't come to places such as this, then perhaps more straightforward how to do it, or why do it shows will emerge - as they have from Bake off and others. But, importantly, the best of these have 'found' some genuine talent - such as Nadiya. To me the biggest fault with this programme is that it doesn't allow individuals any time, or even introduce the teams properly. In 50 years I've never understood why this hobby is so reluctant to identify individuals or clubs, we have had few 'heroes' or mentors. Perhaps some will emerge from this.

 

And my memory of Bob Symes is of a very odd ball individual whom certainly didn't represent the modellers I knew in the 1970s, going on about making real diesel hydraulic and diesel electric locomotives in scales we could only dream of affording. Perhaps Model World was in my non TV watching years.

 

Paul

Edited October 8, 2018 by hmrspaul

[PaulRhB]

Do we need heroes? I think forums and magazines have already established some of the most enlightening modellers over years. Tv is more suited to 'characters' who can create enthusiasm than those who are the creators of masterpieces. You get the occasional one who can do both but don't expect some of our 'best' exponents to necessarily be the best on screen. I can think of some great raconteurs who enjoy it immensely and get everyone involved and model at the levels seen on the show and in many ways are the best people to share the masterpieces of the quieter geniuses on screen.

I liked the strangers Captian's comment on the scratchbuild, exactly what my reaction would be, but they also showed his reaction to his teammates creations and was clearly impressed. The advantage of a team each playing to their strengths.

They were the hook that will make me watch again as they were forced to build both team and layout in such a short time and produced a competent model.

I think Barry was lead a little astray by the media setting up his comments but he did fall into their trap, equally their over optimistic interpretation set them up for it. It was more an ikea flatpack than a creation on the weekend It was very good but not in the spirit of the challenge and couldn't fairly be compared to the others. Kathy's comments about the track and baseboard were quite fair.

Still wouldn't interest me in participating but an ok evening relax by the tele.

[Steamport Southport]

And if this is successful, and they realise there are hundreds of thousands of home modellers out there whom don't come to places such as this, then perhaps more straightforward how to do it, or why do it shows will emerge - as they have from Bake off and others. But, importantly, the best of these have 'found' some genuine talent - such as Nadiya. To me the biggest fault with this programme is that it doesn't allow individuals any time, or even introduce the teams properly. In 50 years I've never understood why this hobby is so reluctant to identify individuals or clubs, we have had few 'heroes' or mentors. Perhaps some will emerge from this.

 

And my memory of Bob Symes is of a very odd ball individual whom certainly didn't represent the modellers I knew in the 1970s, going on about making real diesel hydraulic and diesel electric locomotives in scales we could only dream of affording. Perhaps Model World was in my non TV watching years.

 

Paul

 

Model World was pretty good because it featured other peoples work not just his own. It was more a "show me how you do it" rather than him showing you how to do things.

 

It had railway modellers making a layout of one of the Bluebell Railway's stations. Horsted Keynes I think it was.

 

Here's the opening credits of an aircraft edition. I can't find any more though.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wJ87BPlaD0

 

Don't know why the spellchecker changed Horsted to Horstead? 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited October 8, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[daltonparva]

I liked the strangers Captian's comment on the scratchbuild, exactly what my reaction would be, but they also showed his reaction to his teammates creations and was clearly impressed.

My favourite quote of his was his final one. (I recall) he was asked if he was happy his team had won and would now be in the final, and replied "no, I've got a ****ing garden centre to run".

[dibber25]

And if this is successful, and they realise there are hundreds of thousands of home modellers out there whom don't come to places such as this, then perhaps more straightforward how to do it, or why do it shows will emerge - as they have from Bake off and others. But, importantly, the best of these have 'found' some genuine talent - such as Nadiya. To me the biggest fault with this programme is that it doesn't allow individuals any time, or even introduce the teams properly. In 50 years I've never understood why this hobby is so reluctant to identify individuals or clubs, we have had few 'heroes' or mentors. Perhaps some will emerge from this.

 

And my memory of Bob Symes is of a very odd ball individual whom certainly didn't represent the modellers I knew in the 1970s, going on about making real diesel hydraulic and diesel electric locomotives in scales we could only dream of affording. Perhaps Model World was in my non TV watching years.

 

Paul

 

Yes, Paul, you're absolutely right but I doubt that many of the established 'talents' in this hobby would want to go in front of a TV camera, with the potential to be ridiculed, which even if this programme didn't do it, is the usual that we expect from British TV. If it produces some new TV-savvy talents, that will be great. Rod Stewart, who is an exceptionally good model-maker, had no hesitation in seeing his layout in Model Railroader but when his railway modelling was eventually mentioned in British TV, the BBC took the mickey and confronted him with a circle of track and a Thomas on a coffee table. 

Bob Symes was a unique character but was the kind of eccentric that TV people love - a 'posh' Fred Dibnah. Were you there when Bob Symes turned up, unannounced, at Egham club one Tuesday evening in his plus-fours, apparently to see if we had layouts worth filming? (CJL)

Edited October 8, 2018 by dibber25

[Ryde-on-time]

I enjoyed the show (as did the wife) and thought the best team won, the Strangers layout at least appeared finished and they did the best modelling during the 3 days, the trains looked appropriate too

 

I thought it a shame that the Missenden team did not come up with some more imaginative animations relating the the Lady Killers film - a signal knocking someone into a wagon and someone falling off the roof of the house with the chimney

 

There seems to be talk of having celebrities on the show but I liked the team of judges/presenters they had, it's worth remembering that Paul Hollywood had only appeared on TV once or twice before he started presenting TGBBO

[gr.king]

 

 

And my memory of Bob Symes is of a very odd ball individual whom certainly didn't represent the modellers I knew in the 1970s, going on about making real diesel hydraulic and diesel electric locomotives in scales we could only dream of affording. Perhaps Model World was in my non TV watching years.

 

Paul

 

But was it not the case that Bob's idiosyncrasies were part of the appeal? Maybe it was even reassuring to some of the other oddballs among us, self included, to find that we were closer to "average" than Bob seemed to be. Bewilderingly complex and unaffordable as they may have been, wasn't the fact that he could build such locomotives inspirational for those of us trying to achieve something much more modest?

[Robin2]

Well, at least one independent reviewer seemed to enjoy it (Warning, some bad language, but a good read nevertheless)

I don't see the point. It just seems to be a precis of the programme which I have already watched a few times. Maybe it would be useful for folk that prefer reading to watching movies.

 

...R

[BlackRat]

Oh dear! Watched it on My5 as the live transmission clashed with Quins v Sarries on BT Sport. The rugby was outstanding, the Great Model Railway Challenge not so - more like 'The Not So Great Toy Train Challenge'. Here was an opportunity to display the undoubted skills of the participants to the wider public - modellers and non-modellers alike - but no, these were glossed over in favour of public criticism and put down by the judges - an unfortunate trend of TV nowadays. The participant who, on being handed a lady's shoe for scratch building, commented "We're railway modellers but they're trying to make clowns of us" (or very similar wording) hit the nail on the head. Such a wasted opportunity and, in my view, very unlikely to attract newcomers to what is undoubtedly a brilliant hobby with so many interests and skills. Unfortunately, the judges also failed to sparkle - it may have been beneficial to supplement the judging panel with a more experienced TV personality like Pete Waterman. And the so-called reality TV clichés:

 

And the winner is …………

 

 

 

……….. Well, certainly not the real hobby!

Define.......'Real hobby'?

[sharris]

But was it not the case that Bob's idiosyncrasies were part of the appeal?

 

I think in the 1970s TV science and engineering was more the domain of the slightly eccentric presenter. Back in those days as well as Bob Symes we had Heinz Wolff (who promoted small scale engineering through The Great Egg Race), and on the more scientific side (although not forgetting Wolff was as much a scientist as engineer), Patrick Moore and Magnus Pyke.

 

These days we have James May, Dick Strawbridge and Guy Martin - as far as I'm aware only May has any sort of model railway interest, the others being more into full-size machinery, and French chateaux it seems. 

[TheQ]

I must admit I loved Robert Alexander Baron Schutzmann von Schutzmansdorff's programmes.

Back then I never could have afforded nor thought I would be able to afford, what he had in railways. Now I could, but I already have too many other commitments.

 

It will be interesting to see if there is a series 2, it's probably a cheap program to make.

 

Did any one notice the baddies name on Dr Who, was also Tim Shaw ( approximately).

[Guest chris.trebble]

Define.......'Real hobby'?

 

I used two terms - 'brilliant hobby' and 'real hobby'. Adjectives are self explicit. If you don't understand the word 'hobby', look it up online. Wikipedia has a brilliant definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby

Edited October 8, 2018 by chris.trebble

[Andy Y]

The term I used was 'brilliant hobby'. If you don't understand the word 'hobby', look it up online. Wikipedia has a brilliant definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby

 

No it wasn't - I've already called you out on it http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138126-great-model-railway-challenge-channel-5-starts-05-oct-2018/page-14?p=3324398&do=findComment&comment=3324398 so there's no need for sarcasm. I'm removing your access to the topic.

[newbryford]

If there was a second series, I wonder how the modellers themselves would do things differently, now knowing some of the pitfalls?

They would certainly be more guarded with their comments in front of the cameras.

 

Would then they start to "play the game" as has happened with other TV reality type shows as the series were recommissioned for further years?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Marcus-Jay]

If there was a second series, I wonder how the modellers themselves would do things differently, now knowing some of the pitfalls?

They would certainly be more guarded with their comments in front of the cameras.

 

Would then they start to "play the game" as has happened with other TV reality type shows as the series were recommissioned for further years?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Some of us went in with 25+ years of Television experience, you can guard all you want but a clever editor can find what they need.

 

But then I doubt you'll hear me speak (on Oct 26th)  at all :-)

[Ouroborus]

Do we need heroes? I think forums and magazines have already established some of the most enlightening modellers over years. 

 

The heroes of the younger generation are the youtubers.   Perhaps something that a few here will struggle to understand.  But they post videos about their day, where they've been, what they've done.  The closest I see to this is Intercity82 who seems to know exactly who is market is, knows what to say, knows the level to pitch it at.  I've seen him get a fair bit of stick here, people who just don't get it.  His trains run on the floor of his conservatory, much to the chagrin of some people.  I wonder how he feels when he gets his payment from google?  70,000 subscribers to his channel. By way of comparison - Hornby 13,500, Bachmann 9,600, BRM 17,500, Kylie Jenner 3,300,000.  Laughing all the way to bank!

 

 

 Rod Stewart, who is an exceptionally good model-maker, had no hesitation in seeing his layout in Model Railroader but when his railway modelling was eventually mentioned in British TV, the BBC took the mickey and confronted him with a circle of track and a Thomas on a coffee table. 

 

 

And that's the problem.  The media just cannot seem to resist doing this.  Hopefully the C5 programme can go some way to changing opinions.

[Prometheus]

I have to say that regardless of the many, varying views expressed about this programme, I know two people who were involved in different episodes and both enjoyed it immensely. They both also cautioned me to remember that what we see is subject to ruthless editing to increase the entertainment value [and, presumably, our collective reactions!].

 

Tony

[2mmMark]

I've just caught up with my PVR and found the programme very enjoyable. The Missenden guys were obviously hoist by their own petard but the creative concept behind their layout was stunning. It reminded me very much of the 2mm Association's "Port Victoria" layout from the mid-1960s, that had elevated high level and industrial low level lines.

I felt the judges were a bit harsh on them but it's part of the false jeopardy that TV programmes are unfortunately saddled with these days. I got the feeling the judges had it in for them.

 

What impressed me very much was the level of finish achieved by Strangers On A Train. The layout looked essentially complete. Impressive work from a group of modellers who came together for the show.

 

Either of them would be creditable features at a quality model railway exhibition.

 

I'm afraid the Porthcawl contribution failed to excite me but no criticism intended. 

 

My own modelling speed would barely qualify as slow TV. Faced with a 3 day deadline, I'd suffer analysis paralysis, so fair play to all those who've contributed to the series.  Looking forward to the next few programmes. If the Great British Bake Off were displaced by the Great British Shunt Off, I won't complain.  Too many food programmes on TV these days.

 

Very interesting that despite her on-screen comments, Kathy Millatt's web site heavily and approvingly features the Missenden layout.

[2mmMark]

Neither are baking, cooking, house makeovers or gardening, but TV seems to have made them so

 

Any problems the layouts might have in the longer term pale into insignificance compared to what the rushed house or garden makeovers are setting up for the poor victims who've been inflicted with them!

[Pacific231G]

I doubt that many (if any) reasonably sane railway modellers and potential new railway modellers would expect a nationally screened MRJTV, but remember that Bob Symes and the BBC, even way back in the 1970s, managed to include some reasonably serious railway modelling in the Model World series. That included sincere rather than gimmicky or falsely dramatized coverage of an attempt at a realistic portrayal of an actual location, albeit with the limitations imposed by using certain ready made items of the time, such as Mr Pritchard's girder-rail track. There was even a certain amount of coverage of such "technically complex" things as switches arranged to double up as point levers. No cheap false moments of tension, drama or approaching deadlines were considered necessary for the purposes of "entertainment", simply because no such need exists.

 

 

But Model World wasn't a prime time general audience programme. It was very specifically an adult education programme made by the BBC's Continuing Education Department (where I made programmes for part of my career some years later and which no longer exists) It was at the "soft" end of adult education programmes, the hard end being things like language courses and adult literacy and numeracy. The aim of model world was to introduce the audience to model railway building and the other branches of modelling that the series looked at and to show them enough detail about the techniques to give them the confidence to try. It was shown well outside  later in the evening than prime time and went into more depth about actual techniques than any general programme would for an audience who wanted to learn something from it. It was accompanied by a book as were most such programmes.

 

Success of Continuing Education programmes was not measured by audience size, though you needed to get an audience before you could serve it, but by whether it enhanced the lives of enough of the people who watched, how useful they found it, book sales or take up of the free sheets that often accompanied them and, for some programmes, referrals to colleges and evening classes. The programmes needed to be engaging and entertaining for the audience but entertainment was not the real objective.  

A prime time series like The Great Model Railway Challenge is designed to entertain but will probably encourage more people to take up railway modelling than Model World ever could. That's likely to be very satisfying for the producers, we all like to think our programmes  have a positive impact, but it's purpose is to entertain a large audience.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Pacific231G