Accurascale Class 55 Deltic - 4mm scale

[Ian J.]

My old H&M Walkabout used to allow dropping the throttle to nothing, then using braking to stop the train. It doesn't work now due to its age and not quite cutting power properly, but I found that a very useful way to control a train. It would be nice if it could be properly implemented in DCC, regardless of decoder.

[philg]

20 minutes ago, Steve Williams said:

No, there isn't a braking option as such . However, I think F27 gives you a coast option and it can also be simulated by toggling F5 insofar as F5 can be activated whilst running and then the throttle turned to zero. This gives a coasting simulation. Toggling off F5 with the throttle at zero will then bring the loco to a halt, the rate depending on what braking inertia has been put into CV4

No braking on ESU??  I’m astounded frankly

 

If they haven’t already, maybe Accurascale could also do a comparison between ESU and Zimo

Edited June 25, 2022 by philg

[philg]

1 hour ago, d46037 said:

Just had email from Rails to say Alycidon is on it’s way, Parcelforce being used as courier.

I just got TWO emails from Rails, but both for the same order so no “bonus” Deltic for me

 

Hopefully I’ll get a redirect option from ParcelForce. I’m highly likely not to be around when the Deltic gets here 

[john new]

3 hours ago, 89A said:

I think Bachmann have got this right. I have no end of problems with Hornby Class 60s and Hattons Class 66s.

 

My D9020 Nimbus arrived yesterday and after an hour or so running around light engine with no problems even through standard radius 2 point work, I coupled up to a rake of 8 Hornby Pullmans. 

Immediately derailment after derailment occurred and it was the loco that was being derailed by the 1st coach.

One of the chains detached from the body as a result (Now re-fixed with a blob of glue).

I have managed to improve things a bit by fitting a smaller (with smaller hook) Bachmann tension lock but have to be careful especially on negotiating reverse curves even though radius 4.

The kinematic couplings are possibly too lively or too lightly sprung.

I found the converse last year, not with a Deltic admittedly but when testing stock generally, with mixed t/l fitted stock it is the modern small t/ls that are the problem. Reason they are too narrow to allow the opposing vehicle’s hook to swing far enough on the outer arced edge before hitting the couplings straight edge. It then continues to swing and forces everything sideways until it derails.

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, Mark said:

I think earlier in the thread they stated that they had used smaller wheels as a compromise for trains set curves because the top of the wheel is inside the body. Obviously this will be worse in p4. Those who aren’t constrained with tight curves can hopefully put scale wheels in and lower the body on the bogies. That is what I am hoping to do although in the interim I also have a set of Accurascale wheels on order.

 

Mark

 

Just to clarify, my objection to the undersized wheels is that I don't know many EM/P4 modellers using R2 trainset curves on their mainlines where a Deltic is likely to be running, so, why the continuing of the undersize wheels in the finer gauges?

Accurascale are supposed to have been in contact and discussion with the relevant societies, hopefully, neither of which said "yep, under scale sized wheels will be fine, our members won't be bothered about about the odd couple of millimetres here and there", which begs the question, were they given all the relevant information, or was something lost in the fog of flange and tread dimensions?

 

Mike.

[No Decorum]

A message from DHL’s @rse told me that my model would arrive next Tuesday and another from DHL’s elbow told me it would be delivered today, between 10.33 and 11.33. I was just about to brush my teeth when my phone beeped to tell me it had been delivered, an hour early. Sure enough, a huge box was sitting outside my door. One end of the model’s box was against the side of the delivery box but top, bottom and remaining sides were well protected by crumpled paper. Nothing at all had fallen off. As reported, the speaker clip isn’t either screwed or stuck down. Sadly, the cab light doesn’t work at one end and only half of the engine compartment lights up.

 

There are plenty of lighting options. Below are the daylight running lights.

 

 

The the night running lights.

 

 

The yard work lights.

 

 

Only the Porterbrook version has all these options.

 

I had wondered about the dials in the cab, there being no separate switch for them. They come on with the running lights and the second man has lit dials on his side too.

 

The finish has only a slight sheen but there is a depth or intensity to the colour which is very impressive. It’s the sort of thing that Bachmann does very well and Accurascale has done it beautifully.

 

Those chains. Forewarned is forearmed – I fished one out which had fallen behind the bogie frame. I had worried that they would appear very overscale but they are black and very discreet. There will be some work to do to try to sort out the slow-speed jerkiness but I have to admit that I am rather more taken with the model than I thought I would be.

 

I still haven’t brushed my teeth.

[Chris56057]

5 hours ago, Graham108 said:

You may be at the back of some very long queues - dependent on which version you go for

Just advising the user on the process. I'm already on the list for a Porterbrook one but I'm not holding out much hope! 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Chris56057

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, philg said:

No braking on ESU??  I’m astounded frankly

 

If they haven’t already, maybe Accurascale could also do a comparison between ESU and Zimo

 

There is a braking function (2 actually) on LP and LS5 decoders. How that plays with the sound on LS5 I don't know. Obviously project depending.

 

I expect you'd switch to drivelock mode so you're controlling engine revs, lower your revs and then press the brake function to bring the train to a stop.

[StuAllen]

Meld arrived a few days ago, brilliant model! Guys at Accurascale have done a great job - can’t wait for the class 92s, and class 37s. There will be a lot of rule 1 on my layout when I build it, but I’m not sure I can justify a Manor even though I really want one.

 

I know there has been some talk of issues with coupling and I thought I’d check. I don’t know what else Accurascale could have done, according to my crude measurements they have made it as per the NEM specifications, not all manufacturers seem to be as diligent. See photos below - the worst offender is my Hornby Mk1 Restaurant Buffet, I tried it with a Bachmann Mk1, a Cavelex TEA, and an Accurascale HYA. I can’t tell if the differences affect the running as I only have a short straight setup for testing currently.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by StuAllen

[Gary H]

This may prove a useful tip for AS or others.

Back a few pages ago , one owner said he had what sounded like a wheel flat or similar noise.

On running one of mine this afternoon, it had a rather evident thump from one bogie as the loco ran!

I sat it upside down in my servicing cradle to clean the wheels as by now they were plastered in the familiar black/silvery layer of gunk.

I insert wires in the pickups and ran the loco upside down and could feel a definite lump through the cotton bud as the wheel rotated, I then let the motor stop

and advanced the wheel to where I could see what looked like a lump of chrome (it isn't chrome ofcourse but you get the idea!)

Wearing my Optivisor, I could see something on the tyre, taking a  scalpel blade it simply pinged straight off and was a tiny blob of Cyanoacrylate type adhesive.

The thump the loco exhibited has now gone!

 

Another thing I would like to commend Accurascale on is the wheels. How do you get your wheels  to run so true?

Any chance you could teach the other manufacturers your secret please!😆

[Gilbert]

Has anyone installed KDs in the NEMs and successfully used them for both coupling and uncoupling (i.e. not just to haul coaches?)

My plan is to use my 55011 for a bit of NPCS shunting if it can be made to work?

Chris

[philg]

A few posts back I was "lobbying" for manufacturers to seriously consider looking at Pluxx22 instead of the 21MTC interface for their decoders

 

As those of us who have struggled know only too well, there are TWO contradictory standards for 21MTC (around whether Aux3 and Aux4 are logic level outputs or full function voltage) - which means you have to be very careful which 21MTC decoder you use with each 21MTC loco!!

 

Plux22 has only ONE standard, so any Plux22 decoder works in every Plux22 loco

 

Plux22 also has pretty much the same electrical support as 21MTC (front/rear lights, SEVEN other function outputs (all at full voltage), speaker and keep-alive connections)

 

If not so many AUX functions are needed, there's the possibility of Plux16 (only has Aux1 and 2)

 

Though I've not seen one, there is also a standard for a "compact Plux decoder" which should be only 1mm high!

 

SO, there is nothing that 21MTC can do that Plux22 can't, and the latter does away with all the confusion about function level outputs

 

I rest my case m'lud

 

EDIT - I just found the Zimo MX630P16, so there are Plux16s out there :)

Edited June 25, 2022 by philg

[Wolf27]

Has anyone successfully managed to enable drive hold following the instruction on the Accurascale website? I have tried but while it has done something, it’s not working how I would expect it to, or am I looking at this wrong? My understood drive hold is to keep the loco speed steady but increase/ decrease the engine note?

[Phil Bullock]

36 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

Has anyone successfully managed to enable drive hold following the instruction on the Accurascale website? I have tried but while it has done something, it’s not working how I would expect it to, or am I looking at this wrong? My understood drive hold is to keep the loco speed steady but increase/ decrease the engine note?

That’s certainly how drive lock works in other projects. But I am not worried about it on this project as we have the ability to notch engine note up/down on function keys.

[Haverail]

I just noticed today that when the engine starts up the headlights dim, a great feature if deliberately intended.

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, thetrains said:

Looks good, I wish there was a cab light option for DC versions like Bachmann do.

I didn’t post this earlier but here is a cablight. It is commendably dim, so I had to turn off the nearer room lights so that it could be seen.

 

 

[G-BOAF]

4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Just to clarify, my objection to the undersized wheels is that I don't know many EM/P4 modellers using R2 trainset curves on their mainlines where a Deltic is likely to be running, so, why the continuing of the undersize wheels in the finer gauges?

Accurascale are supposed to have been in contact and discussion with the relevant societies, hopefully, neither of which said "yep, under scale sized wheels will be fine, our members won't be bothered about about the odd couple of millimetres here and there", which begs the question, were they given all the relevant information, or was something lost in the fog of flange and tread dimensions?

 

Mike.

Um. Unless im missing something, you cant just fit larger size wheels without the loco riding higher. Which would lead to all sorts of complainta and probably look awful. Unless you re-engineer the wheel centres which i guess you could do by using asymmetric bearings for the smaller diameter wheels (so they sit lower on the bogies). You would then have to have a smaller final drive cog on the scale wheels to make up for the higher wheel centre. Basically it would involve designing the model for scale wheels and ride height and then adjusting the sit of the OO wheels. Which wheelset do you then gear for scale speed? How to you arrange the pickups?

 

So its not just a simple case of fitting larger wheels for the finer scales.

[Steve Williams]

4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

There is a braking function (2 actually) on LP and LS5 decoders. How that plays with the sound on LS5 I don't know. Obviously project depending.

 

I expect you'd switch to drivelock mode so you're controlling engine revs, lower your revs and then press the brake function to bring the train to a stop.

Well that's something I wasn't aware of. I presume you are saying that the option is there in the decoder software if the project designer chooses to incorporate it into a specific function?  I've yet to come across a sound project that has used it. Most of my sound locos are US models.

[Steve Williams]

2 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

Has anyone successfully managed to enable drive hold following the instruction on the Accurascale website? I have tried but while it has done something, it’s not working how I would expect it to, or am I looking at this wrong? My understood drive hold is to keep the loco speed steady but increase/ decrease the engine note?

Yes, I have changed the CVs as directed on their website, and it all works fine. I can now reduce the engine revs, so it appears to coast, and then disengage F5 and it slows to a halt. I did initially miss out the changing of CV31 & 32 the second time and wondered why nothing had changed!

[Roy Langridge]

13 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

With my ambivalent hat on, Bachmann managed it OK.

 

Mike.

If that was with reference to underscale wheels, that was exactly what Bachmann also did. Scale wheels will not cope with R2 curves.
 

Roy

[TomScrut]

26 minutes ago, Steve Williams said:

Well that's something I wasn't aware of. I presume you are saying that the option is there in the decoder software if the project designer chooses to incorporate it into a specific function?  I've yet to come across a sound project that has used it. Most of my sound locos are US models.

 

Yes so the parameters for the function are a % of the normal deceleration and the speed it decelerates to. So you could set it to speed step 0 at 200% and it will take twice as long to slow down as your preset decel (as if you just turned the knob to 0) and it will stop the train. Or for example if you had an express running round but with a speed restriction through a station you could do the same. Just press the function button to make it slow down, take it off to make it speed up again.

 

I only have experience of it on LPs though, so don't know how it affects sound.

 

Edit, here is the extract from the LP5 manual:

 

"10.6. Brake functions LokPilot 5 decoders offer three brake functions to influence the braking time if desired. For each of the three braking functions you can individually set a percentage value, which is subtracted from the actual braking time (CV 4), as soon as the brake function is active. The brake functions work cumulatively, so that the braking time becomes shorter, the more braking functions are active. The brake functions can be mapped to any function key individually or together. The shares to be deducted from CV 4 must be given in CVs 179, 180 and 181. The value 0 means 0%, the value 255 means 100%. Example: The value 60 in CV 4 results in a regular braking time of 15 seconds. CV 179 is set to 90 for the brake function 1, CV 180 is set to 200 for brake function 2. If brake function 1 is active, this results in a real braking time of 60*(255-90)/255 = 39. If brake function 2 is active, the result is 60*(255-200)/255 = 13. If the brake functions 1 and 2 are active results in 60*(255-90-200)/255 = 0 (negative braking values are not allowed!) Normally, a brake function only affects the braking times, but does not initiate braking. For each brake function, there is now a CV (CV 182, CV 183 and CV 184) for defining the maximum speed with active braking function. This maximum speed can not be exceeded. Example 1: You want the locomotive to decelerate to 0 when the brake function 1 is activated. Therefore write CV 182 = 0. Example 2: You want the locomotive to decelerate while the braking function 2 is active, but not to exceed a minimum speed step of 8 (speed limit). Therefore write CV 183 = 8. In this case the locomotive will never drive faster than speed step 8, no matter how high the controller is turned up. However, if you turn it down manually, the locomotive will naturally slow down even more."

Edited June 25, 2022 by TomScrut

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, thetrains said:

Your pics much same as what I see.  Yes they have met specs.  My issue is the Kinematic (crude drawing below shows what happens).  I will take real photo tomorrow.  My idea for closer coupling worked, e.g. cut down coupling pocket, but Kinematic issue remains, after loco comes off a sharper curve the Deltic's kinematic does not retract enough.   (Where I need to couple I have now worked out to be an approx. radius of about 10, if it exists ha ha).

 

I think that happens with almost every loco I have with kinematic couplers when using tension locks.

 

It's if there is a very slight difference between hook and bar distance on the couplers then only one does the pulling and it drags it that way.

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

objection to the undersized wheels

 

I thought they had actually said they solved the issue without needing to undersize the wheels like Bachmann.

 

@Accurascale Fran can you verify please?

 

Edit, forget that it was said they were undersized I remember now. It was that they managed to get the ride height correct or something despite it.

Edited June 25, 2022 by TomScrut

[MoonM]

Received yesterday and unboxed today. I always get nervous unboxing a loco these days as so many times I find issues with the product (sometimes even if I ask if the retailer can inspect/test before sending). No such issues here. A couple of steps dropped off in transit is the most I can find which I am very happy to forgive. 

Some other positive points to note that haven't got much air time in this forum so far... 

- motor performs super quietly and smoothly

- currently my loco is running in on my rolling road. There is absolutely no rocking side to side. The bogies and wheels appear beautifully balanced. I cannot think of anything else in my collection that behaves so well. 

So, class 37 ordered. I think I better get an order in for a manor and a 31 as well now... 

[Wolf27]

37 minutes ago, Steve Williams said:

Yes, I have changed the CVs as directed on their website, and it all works fine. I can now reduce the engine revs, so it appears to coast, and then disengage F5 and it slows to a halt. I did initially miss out the changing of CV31 & 32 the second time and wondered why nothing had changed!

What programmer are you using?