Class 37, by Accurascale

[what_the_wasabi]

49 minutes ago, Motorway12 said:

I think a lot of the issues regarding the sound cutting out, on start up, have to be to do with our respective layouts and the DCC equipment we each have (I think someone mentioned this earlier in the forum). For me I just kept knocking a bit of CV63 until I reached the point when my pair of 37001's started with no issues (which was 140).

I have 37043 and 37051, both bought as DCC ready and then fitted later on the Accurascale LokSound 5 decoder and Accurathrash speakers.  Both locomotives cut out on startup with the factory default CV settings with a 2ft long programming track connected to a LokProgrammer!   

[McC]

3 minutes ago, what_the_wasabi said:

I have 37043 and 37051, both bought as DCC ready and then fitted later on the Accurascale LokSound 5 decoder and Accurathrash speakers.  Both locomotives cut out on startup with the factory default CV settings with a 2ft long programming track connected to a LokProgrammer!   

 

Assuming 14V or more on track and a few seconds allowed for stay alive charge - drop support a line - we're more than happy to advise :) 

[cctransuk]

Now - this is NOT intended as knocking DCC!

 

It seems to me that - compared to DC, (where we have traditionally fed, give or take, 12v DC to our motors and expected them to move forwards or backwards); the innumerable variations of control system, combined with a plethora of different electronics in the models, is bound to make designing models to cope with all this variation an almost impossible task.

 

Which way things will develop, I am not qualified to comment - but I think that some form of standardisation will be necessary if it is to be possible for consumers to buy locos and fit them, or run them, with the electronics of their choice.

 

CJI.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by cctransuk

[spamcan61]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Now - this is NOT intended as knocking DCC!

 

It seems to me that - compared to DC, (where we have traditionally fed, give or take, 12v DC to our motors and expected them to move forwards or backwards); the innumberable variations of control system, combined with a plethora of different electronics in the models, is bound to make designing models to cope with all this variation an almost impossible task.

 

Which way things will develop, I am not qualified to comment - but I think that some form of standardisation will be necessary if it is to be possible for consumers to buy locos and fit them, or run them, with the electronics of their choice.

 

CJI.

 

 

As an occasional DCC dabbler and electronics designer of sorts I'd broadly agree. In principle DC is simpler to debug, you either have voltage or you don't. Trouble is, even DC models now have a fair amount of electronics in them, so the complexity gap is narrowing.

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

As an occasional DCC dabbler and electronics designer of sorts I'd broadly agree. In principle DC is simpler to debug, you either have voltage or you don't. Trouble is, even DC models now have a fair amount of electronics in them, so the complexity gap is narrowing.

 

Not in my DC models, they don't! If it doesn't conduct DC from the pick-ups, directly to the motor terminals - out it comes!

 

I realise that it's not practicable to produce separate DC and DCC models, but it definitely isn't viable for the current DCC free-for-all to continue, with the attendant flurry of complaints every time a new model is released.

 

John Isherwood.

[Bucoops]

4 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi @PJ10,

 

Apologies, the last thing I wanted to do was raise stress levels, rather lower them!

 

Regarding overload protection, this is a fail safe built into the chip and is affected by a great many of factors, not just within the loco, but the supply and environment around it such as voltage spikes etc. ESU have protection built into all their function outputs as well as motor protection to prevent against overloads and short circuits for example.

 

It is also advised by ESU themselves to turn down sounds as not to overload the speakers. Please note the below which is from ESU. 

 

 

After all, if was being exclusively caused by internal components then every single loco would cut out as it is the same design, and they obviously do not. We have made a lot more than 100 Class 37s so our data pool, not to mention Deltics, 92s, IRM A Class and Manors, so it is a lot bigger of course, and apart from duff chips the returns for any chip issue is minimal.

 

What I would suggest in your case is that this is not an issue that will manifest over time, so if you have any concerns we would advise you to test your locos within the warranty period to make sure you are happy with them, and if there are any issues to get in touch with our support team who can advise a lot better than me personally as I just seemed to raise your concerns than allay them. Once again apologies for that.

 

I hope this helps, and if it doesnt I recommend dropping Simon an email via our warranty channels as he would have a lot more knowledge than me on this subject.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

 

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

 

You're pushing the boundaries on what DCC can do, and getting moaned at for it despite offering best in class support. Keep up the good work guys :)

[Porcy Mane]

38 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

It seems to me that - compared to DC, (where we have traditionally fed, give or take, 12v DC to our motors and expected them to move forwards or backwards); the innumberable variations of control system, combined with a plethora of different electronics in the models, is bound to make designing models to cope with all this variation an almost impossible task.

 

Which is why the NMRA have an electrical standard for DCC. Manufactures and individuals can and do modify & deviate from the standard as they see fit or choose to develop there own systems. It's still a developing technology but an interesting one. Some basics of the NMRA standard are followed by all.

[NBL]

I bought my first sound fitted loco last week, a Proto 2000 SW9.  The sound is muted and in my mind at a perfect level.

 

The sound adds to my layout rather than overpowering it with screaming prime movers and horns.

 

I was helping at an exhibition recently where the layout next to us was filled with sound fitted diesels at full volumes, which kept cutting out.

 

They spent more time faffing about resetting the systems than actually running trains.

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, NBL said:

I bought my first sound fitted loco last week, a Proto 2000 SW9.  The sound is muted and in my mind at a perfect level.

 

The sound adds to my layout rather than overpowering it with screaming prime movers and horns.

 

I was helping at an exhibition recently where the layout next to us was filled with sound fitted diesels at full volumes, which kept cutting out.

 

They spent more time faffing about resetting the systems than actually running trains.

It does have me wondering !!!

My first DCC sound fitted loco was a Roco Austrian class 2043 diesel which had an ESU v2 decoder in it.  I bought it because it was an Austrian diesel fitted with sound, but also because SWD had just released the BR class 25 ESU v3.5 decoder and i needed to "learn" DCC.

 

Things have come a long way but i am wondering if there is a link between model class 37s at max thrash, and decoder issues.  Presume the Accurascale deltic hasnt had these issues ?

[SulzerPeak]

Accurascale have brought arguably the best reasonably priced locos to the uk based scene. I applaud them for that. All new companies have a learning curve. I want them to succeed. It benefits us. There are issues with motors and dcc sound though. I’ve never had problems with Bachmann locos. I’m wondering why the returned locos are taking so long to be returned and repaired. I’ve spoken to a dcc sound expert and he thinks the speaker load is incorrect on the 37s. Google Accurascale class 37 motor problems also.

[Accurascale Fran]

13 minutes ago, SulzerPeak said:

Accurascale have brought arguably the best reasonably priced locos to the uk based scene. I applaud them for that. All new companies have a learning curve. I want them to succeed. It benefits us. There are issues with motors and dcc sound though. I’ve never had problems with Bachmann locos. I’m wondering why the returned locos are taking so long to be returned and repaired. I’ve spoken to a dcc sound expert and he thinks the speaker load is incorrect on the 37s. Google Accurascale class 37 motor problems also.

Hi SulzerPeak,

 

Just a couple of points here;

 

1, regarding “why so long for returns? We hold our hands up here, but 37 spares went missing between China and UK, and only just turned up. It has also coincided with Simon moving house. It’s on us, and we need to improve there so we hold our hands up but we are getting back on it now.

 

2. All manufacturers have issues with locos, and the odd dud slips through the net, us included. After all, the manufacturer you named wouldn’t have had the famed “Warley rugby scrum” for years and now the big sale on club members day if all models they sold operated perfectly. And that’s not to run them down, merely to point out that It happens to us all.

Can we improve? Always! My recent trip to China has looked at that and we can always do better. It’s what drives us. However, I can assure you that “issues/returns” are extremely low, and indeed lower than we envisaged when we first took the leap into making powered models. 

 

in the meantime if you need an update on a model please PM me your order number and I’ll chase for you. 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

[SulzerPeak]

5 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi SulzerPeak,

 

Just a couple of points here;

 

1, regarding “why so long for returns? We hold our hands up here, but 37 spares went missing between China and UK, and only just turned up. It has also coincided with Simon moving house. It’s on us, and we need to improve there so we hold our hands up but we are getting back on it now.

 

2. All manufacturers have issues with locos, and the odd dud slips through the net, us included. After all, the manufacturer you named wouldn’t have had the famed “Warley rugby scrum” for years and now the big sale on club members day if all models they sold operated perfectly. And that’s not to run them down, merely to point out that It happens to us all.

Can we improve? Always! My recent trip to China has looked at that and we can always do better. It’s what drives us. However, I can assure you that “issues/returns” are extremely low, and indeed lower than we envisaged when we first took the leap into making powered models. 

 

in the meantime if you need an update on a model please PM me your order number and I’ll chase for you. 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

 

[SulzerPeak]

Thanks for response Fran much appreciated 👍

[zr2498]

11 hours ago, McC said:

The point regarding the ESU circuitry in the 37 is that it’s designed by ESU for the loco and the chip and the speakers. You can of course chop that up but you will void your warranty in doing so as it’s designed to work ideally out of the box by the people who make the chips :) 

The design of the electronics in conjunction with ESU was a wise choice. ESU should have more know-how re their decoders than anyone, and with the degree of complexity why not 'get the experts in'.

I expect that ESU would never have signed off the design without ensuring the safeguarding of their decoders, even if the speaker arrangement seems to be not within their typical standard specification.

I would also expect auto cut outs are set at levels well within adequate safety margins to ensure the longevity of the devices.

Decreasing volumes does seem to be a reasonable approach to get the sound operating within boundary limits. This may not always be possible to limit within the electronics design by ESU, as it could be that the combination of overall volume and individual sound slots when developing the sound files that tips the balance.

Why some cut out and some do not, could be down to external conditions as already discussed, or it could be due to variablity of the components.

I guess many are getting into the details 'cause it's interesting and we can be curious sometimes.

Perhaps a statement from ESU backing up what ACC have already been so helpful with might alleviate the quizzical minds.

 

[SRman]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi SulzerPeak,

 

Just a couple of points here;

 

1, regarding “why so long for returns? We hold our hands up here, but 37 spares went missing between China and UK, and only just turned up. It has also coincided with Simon moving house. It’s on us, and we need to improve there so we hold our hands up but we are getting back on it now.

 

2. All manufacturers have issues with locos, and the odd dud slips through the net, us included. After all, the manufacturer you named wouldn’t have had the famed “Warley rugby scrum” for years and now the big sale on club members day if all models they sold operated perfectly. And that’s not to run them down, merely to point out that It happens to us all.

Can we improve? Always! My recent trip to China has looked at that and we can always do better. It’s what drives us. However, I can assure you that “issues/returns” are extremely low, and indeed lower than we envisaged when we first took the leap into making powered models. 

 

in the meantime if you need an update on a model please PM me your order number and I’ll chase for you. 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

 

 

Adding to this, ESU themselves had problems with a batch of defective decoders. I have bought quite a lot of my ESU LokSound 5 decoders from a (very good) local dealer here in Australia, and had to return one that failed - it was in an Accurascale class 37 but that was most emphatically not the cause of the failure. Said dealer honoured the ESU warranty and told me he had had quite a few decoders returned to him from that batch.

[Accurascale Fran]

Morning everyone,

 

We have received a number of requests for a "how-to" when it comes to customising headcodes since the last batch of 37s arrived in stock. So, here you go, along with fitting our driver packs from Modelu too!

 

 

Read it on our website right here: https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/lets-get-involved/fitting-your-class-37-headcodes

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Michael Hodgson]

As an occssional visitor to model railway shows, I wish exhibitors would turn down the volume!  And come to that some of the visitors should do likewise! 

 

At my age people keep telling me I need a hearing aid.

[newbryford]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

As an occssional visitor to model railway shows, I wish exhibitors would turn down the volume!  And come to that some of the visitors should do likewise! 

 

At my age people keep telling me I need a hearing aid.

 

It's one louder

 

 

[No Decorum]

23 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Morning everyone,

 

We have received a number of requests for a "how-to" when it comes to customising headcodes since the last batch of 37s arrived in stock. So, here you go, along with fitting our driver packs from Modelu too!

 

 

Read it on our website right here: https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/lets-get-involved/fitting-your-class-37-headcodes

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Fran, Accurascale puts lots of useful guides on its website. Would you consider putting them in PDF please? Websites come and go and get updated and in the process things get lost. In addition, it’s helpful to be able to print a guide and take it to the workbench or even keep it with the relevant model.

[SRman]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Fran, Accurascale puts lots of useful guides on its website. Would you consider putting them in PDF please? Websites come and go and get updated and in the process things get lost. In addition, it’s helpful to be able to print a guide and take it to the workbench or even keep it with the relevant model.

 

I too would like them in pdf format, but in the meantime, I have selected the text and images from the guides I was interested in, and simply copied them into Word documents to save for future reference.

[spamcan61]

I just use 'print to pdf' on any useful web page, formatting can go a bit screwy, unsurprisingly. Seems to work better in Chrome than FF or Edge imx.

[No Decorum]

29 minutes ago, SRman said:

 

I too would like them in pdf format, but in the meantime, I have selected the text and images from the guides I was interested in, and simply copied them into Word documents to save for future reference.

I’ve done that (though not using Word). It’s hard work. Easier for us if Accurascale were to use a programme which saves to PDF.

[TravisM]

Having a discussion with a friend last night, about what other DRS liveried Class 37's we'd like to see and as I've now settled on modelling the Cumbrian Coast line between 2016 and 18, those that I have fit in just nicely (402, 409, 423 & 609), though there are gaps I'd like to see. 

 

The obvious ones are 37401, 403, both in large logo, 37405, 409, 419 & 425 in blue compass livery, as well as 37716.  I would have added 37424/37558 as well, but as Bachmann did it, it's doubtful Accurascale will.

 

If they announced 37401 in DRS large logo, I'd be one of the first to order it.

Edited December 10, 2023 by jools1959
Additional info

[Krieghoff]

Fran et al. 
ive been banging on about this for months now. 🤣🤣🤣

can we PLEASE have one or two if these. PLEEEEAZZEEE. 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Krieghoff

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Krieghoff said:

Fran et al. 
ive been banging on about this for months now. 🤣🤣🤣

can we PLEASE have one or two if these. PLEEEEAZZEEE. 

 

 

 

 

Do it! Do it!