mikesndbs Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Sheesh, he only asked guys, lighten up! Enthusiasm does that to you, can't all be pragmatic so and so's lol I think we might have more news around Easter time if all goes well. Regarding deposits, unless the business can prove they won't be able to sell the item you reserved, then your deposit is refundable minus some fair costs, check out Citizens Advice for more. Happy new year all 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, mikesndbs said: Sheesh, he only asked guys, lighten up! Enthusiasm does that to you, can't all be pragmatic so and so's lol I think we might have more news around Easter time if all goes well. Regarding deposits, unless the business can prove they won't be able to sell the item you reserved, then your deposit is refundable minus some fair costs, check out Citizens Advice for more. Happy new year all If the OP is prepared to cancel and lose money because - during a global pandemic to which he, himself draws attention - the model is delayed by six months, I have to wonder how much he wanted the model in the first place! How many of the world's displaced population would wish to have such matters as their primary concern? CJI. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 19 minutes ago, cctransuk said: If the OP is prepared to cancel and lose money because - during a global pandemic to which he, himself draws attention - the model is delayed by six months, I have to wonder how much he wanted the model in the first place! How many of the world's displaced population would wish to have such matters as their primary concern? CJI. I don't think the OP said it was his primary concern, after all he asked about a model on a model forum, had he asked the same question on a world news forum then absolutely I'd be there with you. This is an escape for most of us, from an utterly chaotic, selfish world. Anyway, my final comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, cctransuk said: ....................................................... Please, just get real - life is like that; we rarely get what we want, when we want it! If it has to be NOW, take up paper aeroplanes. CJI. It is not that I am impatient, but due personal circumstances on a revised April, 2022 release date, altered since I placed my deposit, I have no idea what my delivery address will be then and obviously do not wish to have a model suddenly turn up at the dealer and have him send the item to an old address. The manufacturer will have an expected production date to which he is able to give an idea as to an approximate delivery date to market. If production has not commenced this month, then a realistic delivery date will be at least July/August. A later release date suits my unique situation as by then I will be settled in an address several hundred kilometres from my current address. I placed deposits based on a manufacturer's expected delivery date. The onus is on the manufacturer to provide realistic delivery updates to the market when conditions change. The same situation exists with the now revised Hattons Genesis coach batch 1 release. The expected late March release date would have similarly coincided with my house move, so revising the release to market date to later in the year suits me perfectly. Does this seem that I am being impatient? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, mikesndbs said: Regarding deposits, unless the business can prove they won't be able to sell the item you reserved, then your deposit is refundable minus some fair costs, check out Citizens Advice for more. The store in question has a policy that the store has the right to refund or retain deposits at their discretion. Since I cancelled the deposit the store has revised delivery information on the model in question to a more appropriate timeframe and not the late 2021 release advertised. If I had known a more accurate delivery date then I would have not cancelled the deposit as the new delivery date in the middle of the year suits my house move situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 7, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2022 Shop policy does not trump your consumer rights. They could have a policy that they retain your card details and use them to buy their lunch, but it doesn’t mean they can do it. They should refund your deposit. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Perhaps Keith can provide an update as Rails no longer has an expected delivery date for the BR black non-sound version I have ordered (I believe the original factory release date was third quarter 2021, but the Rails site was from memory April 2022) and when one goes to the KR Models website and selects "Products" the Fell is not shown as the order book has closed. Is there any further info available on the model? As it was a highly anticipated model release I am surprised that any forum interest has seemingly waned. Perhaps those who have purchased directly from the KR Models website are more regularly updated. A Google search link to Facebook shows two "recent" posts, with one dated July 2nd,2021 stating that the order book was closing immediately and another June 29th, 2021, quote: "Here are the decorated samples of The Fell. With only a few minor changes we can go straight into production. The order book will be closing July 1st,..." What happened to "...... With only a few minor changes we can go straight into production..." Edit: has the Fell production run possibly been delayed to accommodate the second batch GT3 release (images of many GT3 bodies in both liveries on Facebook)? If production has not commenced then a third quarter 2022 release seems a more realistic date which definitely suits me. Edited January 7, 2022 by GWR-fan additional wording Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 7, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, njee20 said: They should refund your deposit. Are you sure about that? The OP voluntarily cancelled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, GWR-fan said: Does this seem that I am being impatient? Perhaps not impatient - more over- complicating the issue. You could simply instruct the store(s) in question to contact you prior to despatching goods, to check your current address. Alternatively, Royal Mail operate an excellent re-addressing service that I have used when moving house. I find it difficult yo believe that uou would incur a financial loss, simply because of a change of aaddress CJI. Edited January 7, 2022 by cctransuk 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 7, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said: Are you sure about that? The OP voluntarily cancelled. They need a justifiable reason to retain it, and any charges should be commensurate with the costs they’ve incurred. Ie none. Bear in mind he can wait until it’s delivered and then cancel, which is far more of a pain. They now have an option to cancel their order or resell it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 But, just HOW are manufacturers able to accurately predict release dates under present day circumstances? 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, stewartingram said: But, just HOW are manufacturers able to accurately predict release dates under present day circumstances? Exactly. there are a few things that are totally outside of the manufacturer's control, including- 1. The power supply to the factory- China has been enforcing short-time working in some factories, and this has been a bit of a moveable feast by certain accounts 2. Availability of labour force due to Covid etc. 3. Availability of a container to put the completed models in for shipment. A substantial number are in the wrong place. 4. Availability of a ship to carry said container, given the number of container ships in the wrong place due to being held up here, there and everywhere. 5. the infinitely variable time said ship will take to carry the container to the UK, dependent on routeing, diversions etc. 6. Unloading and Customs delays in UK ports and further delays caused by post-Brexit complications involving routeing through an EU port if that were to happen. Given all this the most accurate estimate any manufacturer can make is "haven't a clue". At which point the dogs of RMWeb sink their teeth into said manufacturer's reputation and tear it to shreds. The best we can hope for is a report when the models are loaded onto a ship, assuming the manufacturer is given that information, which should happen but doesn't always..... Just a few thoughts Les 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 07/01/2022 at 08:15, Colin_McLeod said: Are you sure about that? The OP voluntarily cancelled. Consumer advice on deposit refunds - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/campaigns/ncw15/ncw15-Consumerinformationnote.pdf 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: Consumer advice on deposit refunds - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/campaigns/ncw15/ncw15-Consumerinformationnote.pdf Very useful. Something new learnt today. Many thanks. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: Very useful. Something new learnt today. Many thanks. Indeed - some of it quite surprised me to be honest and the picture is definitely not as clear as I thought it would be. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just received an e mail from KR models they are hoping for an Easter delivery for the Fell model. The message also contained updates on their other models. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 08/01/2022 at 12:22, The Stationmaster said: Consumer advice on deposit refunds - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/campaigns/ncw15/ncw15-Consumerinformationnote.pdf That advice is a bit woolly in place, it seems. But is advice for UK residents in respect of UK shops. To what extent is it applicable to GWR-fan, who lives about 14k miles away? And to whom would he be able to turn to enforce his rights? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, 46256 said: Just received an e mail from KR models they are hoping for an Easter delivery for the Fell model. The message also contained updates on their other models. Personally I will take this with a grain of salt. An Easter delivery implies that the production run has been completed and the goods are ready for packing into a container for shipment or already enroute. With February 1st (Chinese New Year) just over a week away and many Chinese leaving factories early to travel to families then Easter seems a vague and distant possibility. It sounds to me more like another manufacturer's "after Christmas" timeframe actually being a delivery delay of almost six months. Personally, I would prefer a later delivery date due my circumstances. Given that Hattons delayed their "latest" expected late March delivery date on their Genesis coaches to around August indicates to me that an Easter delivery date on the Fell is pie in the sky or extremely optimistic. No information of late on an actual production run of the Fell occurring and suddenly an Easter delivery date does sound very, very optimistic, taking no account of New Year and distribution delays. Why plenty of production information on the GT3 and yet nothing on the Fell? Has anyone actually seen a drive chassis without a body shell? All I have seen are a prototype body shell from 2020 and a couple of painted shells and a single running example. For a model so apparently close to actual delivery there has been minimal information available to the public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 21/01/2022 at 20:09, GWR-fan said: Personally I will take this with a grain of salt. An Easter delivery implies that the production run has been completed and the goods are ready for packing into a container for shipment or already enroute. With February 1st (Chinese New Year) just over a week away and many Chinese leaving factories early to travel to families then Easter seems a vague and distant possibility. It sounds to me more like another manufacturer's "after Christmas" timeframe actually being a delivery delay of almost six months. Personally, I would prefer a later delivery date due my circumstances. Given that Hattons delayed their "latest" expected late March delivery date on their Genesis coaches to around August indicates to me that an Easter delivery date on the Fell is pie in the sky or extremely optimistic. No information of late on an actual production run of the Fell occurring and suddenly an Easter delivery date does sound very, very optimistic, taking no account of New Year and distribution delays. Why plenty of production information on the GT3 and yet nothing on the Fell? Has anyone actually seen a drive chassis without a body shell? All I have seen are a prototype body shell from 2020 and a couple of painted shells and a single running example. For a model so apparently close to actual delivery there has been minimal information available to the public. Exact phrasing is "Production is complete and assembly is underway. Delivery is expected to be around Easter. However, this is subject to change." (copied and pasted) This sounds as if the last update given to KR is that Easter is still the date but no more reliable date is available to them... Manufacturers can only give out the information they are given. I've paid for mine in full so I'll expect it when it arrives. Les As a thought- do I hear anyone bellyaching about not getting pics of the deco samples and running prototypes of the Bachmann Fairlie? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, Les1952 said: Exact phrasing is "Production is complete and assembly is underway. Delivery is expected to be around Easter. However, this is subject to change." (copied and pasted) ............................................................................ I have pre-ordered through Rails and information is very limited as is information on the KR website. The only info I can see on the website on the Fell is back around 2020 in a newsletter. Perhaps as you have ordered directly through the website you are privy to personal details as regards production of the Fell. I am not privy to such information and am left to sparse reports in the media. As China basically shuts down in a week, exactly how old is your personal info on production being completed? For an Easter delivery the model will already be intransit or at least awaiting shipment at a dock in China. If final assembly/packaging has to await a return of the workforce in March then delivery will not be at least until June or July and possibly like with the Hattons Genesis coaches, more like August. Hattons were "honest" with their delivery estimate just days after announcing a late March arrival instore of their Genesis coaches when they posted an updated August delivery. As regards "belly aching" well, Kader has over a century in business and a proven track record of production. KR Models has a GT3 with a second run soon and the Consett wagons to be released soon (?). As a relative newcomer to the market, I do not think it unreasonable for the company to inform buyers (not just through personal mail) of the state of progress of their products. From the start the company has received a lot of undue criticism due the failure of another crowd source company, so it benefits both the company and the buyer when regular updates are given. I will restate, has anyone seen publicly what the drive chassis looks like? Many buyers are not on personal email newsletters or Facebook so are left in the dark. The only recent information I could find on Facebook after a Google search was images of painted GT3 bodies, nothing on the Fell and yet supposedly production was "completed". Nearly two years into the project I have seen a prototype unpainted "running" example (from late2020, well the body was sitting on a chassis), a BR black actual running example and a BR green body minus a chassis from around mid-2021. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 hours ago, Les1952 said: Delivery is expected to be around Easter. However, this is subject to change. Correct. Easter changes every year. I think there's a committee in the Vatican who decide when it will be. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: Correct. Easter changes every year. I think there's a committee in the Vatican who decide when it will be. Oh. I thought it was Cadbury. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: Correct. Easter changes every year. I think there's a committee in the Vatican who decide when it will be. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/determining-easter-date.html 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 hours ago, Les1952 said: Exact phrasing is "Production is complete and assembly is underway. Delivery is expected to be around Easter. However, this is subject to change." (copied and pasted) This sounds as if the last update given to KR is that Easter is still the date but no more reliable date is available to them... Manufacturers can only give out the information they are given. I've paid for mine in full so I'll expect it when it arrives. Les As a thought- do I hear anyone bellyaching about not getting pics of the deco samples and running prototypes of the Bachmann Fairlie? I'm a bit confused by your final remark as the Bachmann Fairlies were released in final production finish and on sale almost immediately. So you could see what a production version looked like before you decided to purchase one while a comment about the running followed within a day on RMweb and video of one running on a custiomer's layout was posted on here 17 days after they were announced. In that case you couldn't pre-order because you didn'r t know the model was coming and you could see what you would be buying before you put any money where your mouth was. So no comparison at all with something where you might pay the entire purchase price before you even see what the production finish will be or know how it will run. I love the expression 'production is complete and assembly is underway' which clearly conflicts with itself because production obviously isn't complete if assembly is still underway but then there is some very strange wording on some of KR's magazine ads - so it might just be the way they phrase things? Allowing 6 weeks for shipping an arrival in the UK for Easter would mean despatch during the last week of February but as CNY is on 1 February the holiday period would allow little or no time for any production work between the end of the break and the need to despatch in the final week of February in order to meet the Easter arrival date. So in order to hit that Easter date the models would have to be ready for despatch by some time next week - which of course might well be the case. KR will no doubt know when the models are shipped and they might well advise a date on that basis or the models might already be on the high seas heading westwards. In other words at present any UK arrival date isn't public knowledge but 'Easter' could well be achievable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I love the expression 'production is complete and assembly is underway' which clearly conflicts with itself because production obviously isn't complete if assembly is still underway but then there is some very strange wording on some of KR's magazine ads - so it might just be the way they phrase things? That had me puzzled as well. I decided that what was meant was that moulding was complete and now the moulded bits were being assembled. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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