Panic buying

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The NML is there to prevent exploitation. Companies that have been prosecuted for not paying NML seem to have many things in common. They are owned by multi-millionaires who take advantage of our lax tax laws who pay little if any tax on their vast incomes. Their employees pay is docked if they are considered to spend to long going to the toilet. Trade unions are barred. 

 

I disagree. It was supposed to stop exploitation, but it made it far worse.

 

Try looking for a job. Virtually everything is NML and under 15 hours. Can people really live on that? Okay if you are a kid just left school. But all the jobs are like that.

 

Seriously have a good look at Indeed and Find A Job. Everything is PT or Kickstarter (18 to 24 only).

 

https://uk.indeed.com/

 

https://www.gov.uk/find-a-job

 

 

 

Someone who is actually in the market for a new job. But not if it's worst than the one I already have though.

 

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

36 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Over the last forty years the tax burden has been pushed downwards to the lower paid. This was achieved by freezing the tax free allowances and increases in VAT. It has been calculated that someone working full time on minimum wage now pays 48% of their income in taxes. This is not party political either as Labour done little if anything to remedy the situation when they were in power. The population has been duped by politicians of all colours claiming to reduce the rate at which you pay tax, it a lot more complicated than that.

 

I would have thought it would be higher 10% Ni contributions paid by both employer and employee. 20% basic rate tax, 20% VAT then all these duties on petrol, booze and Tabaco etc

 

On the other hand the nil rate tax band has increased far more in recent years than before. I would expect higher earners pay more in VAT as they have more disposable income.

[hayfield]

25 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The problem is that the lower paid are overburdened with tax. Every extra 5% they earn 1% goes straight to the tax man. Yet high earners are allowed to get away with paying little if any tax. Political parties of all colours have condoned this state of affairs.

The NML is there to prevent exploitation. Companies that have been prosecuted for not paying NML seem to have many things in common. They are owned by multi-millionaires who take advantage of our lax tax laws who pay little if any tax on their vast incomes. Their employees pay is docked if they are considered to spend to long going to the toilet. Trade unions are barred. 

 

Hold on my daughter and son in law are both public servants, and pay high rate tax on some of their earnings, they like others who are in this position pay more

 

I agree with you about companies now only recruiting part time staff, I worked for one which does this now. I have a feeling things will start to change as there will be more competition for staff in the future and better terms and conditions as well as hourly rate will have to get better

[PhilJ W]

Just now, hayfield said:

 

I would have thought it would be higher 10% Ni contributions paid by both employer and employee. 20% basic rate tax, 20% VAT then all these duties on petrol, booze and Tabaco etc

 

On the other hand the nil rate tax band has increased far more in recent years than before. I would expect higher earners pay more in VAT as they have more disposable income.

I spent almost all my working life paying peoples salaries and wages. And over that time I could see how the tax burden was transferred downwards. The income tax allowances originally were there to ease the tax burden on the lower paid and were raised in line with inflation. In the 80's when inflation was running in excess of 20% the then chancellor, Norman Lamont 'froze' the tax allowances. Amongst those paid by my department were the school dinner ladies who very rarely paid tax as their incomes were so low (5 or 6 hours a week and only in term time). They received IIRC a 9% pay rise, less than half the rate of inflation. Despite the pay rise they found themselves worse off as the rise and more was swallowed up by tax and national insurance.

[hayfield]

26 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I spent almost all my working life paying peoples salaries and wages. And over that time I could see how the tax burden was transferred downwards. The income tax allowances originally were there to ease the tax burden on the lower paid and were raised in line with inflation. In the 80's when inflation was running in excess of 20% the then chancellor, Norman Lamont 'froze' the tax allowances. Amongst those paid by my department were the school dinner ladies who very rarely paid tax as their incomes were so low (5 or 6 hours a week and only in term time). They received IIRC a 9% pay rise, less than half the rate of inflation. Despite the pay rise they found themselves worse off as the rise and more was swallowed up by tax and national insurance.

 

Phil that was 40 years ago, I am talking recent history

 

When inflation was that high I found rates of pay followed suite, plus large mortgages dropped in value etc.

 

The past 20 yesrs with low inflation has been good for those on fixed incomes by large mortgages have remained large

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Over the last forty years the tax burden has been pushed downwards to the lower paid. This was achieved by freezing the tax free allowances and increases in VAT. ......

 

This is categorically not the case.

Quite the opposite of reality.

The lowest paid are undoubtedly very highly squeezed on all fronts, including VAT, fuel duties etc, but they don't shoulder the national tax burden.

 

The lower paid and lower medium earners pay a smaller proportion of both the total income tax and the overall total personal tax take.

 

In addition, the tax free allowance on earnings, has risen in real terms, over the last 10 years, from £6,475 in 2010/11 to £12,570 in the current tax year.

Even allowing for inflation over that period, that is a significant rise.

 

The pandemic will have skewed the figures significantly for the last tax year, when they're released, but taking the last full tax year figures released, from just before the pandemic (2019-20).....

 

Share of total income tax revenue (rounding to the nearest whole number)........

 

Top 1% of earners           - 30%

Top 90-99%.                      -31%

Top 50-90%.                      -30%

Bottom 50% of earners    - 9%

 

Add in NIC's, VAT etc, ........

 

Top 1% of earners           - 13% 

Top 90-99%.                       -21%

Top 50-90%.                       -41%

Bottom 50% of earners    -25%

 

You can see from those figures, that the top half of tax payers are paying 91% of all income tax and 75% of all personal tax income for the treasury.

The top 10% of earners, are paying 61% of total income tax revenue and 34% of total personal tax income.

As always, the middle to higher (50-90%) earners carry the highest personal tax load.

 

It's also worth noting that 42% of all adults (18yrs and above), pay no income tax at all....0%.

That group includes a proportion of non-tax paying pensioners and those that can't work, such as disabled people, but the majority are able bodied people of working age.

Many will be part time, others will be on very low pay  (below £12,570 p.a.) .

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

[Monkersson]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

This is categorically not the case.

Quite the opposite of reality.

The lowest paid are undoubtedly very highly squeezed on all fronts, including VAT, fuel duties etc, but they don't shoulder the national tax burden.

 

The lower paid and lower medium earners pay a smaller proportion of both the total income tax and the overall total personal tax take.

 

In addition, the tax free allowance on earnings, has risen in real terms, over the last 10 years, from £6,475 in 2010/11 to £12,570 in the current tax year.

Even allowing for inflation over that period, that is a significant rise.

 

The pandemic will have skewed the figures significantly for the last tax year, when they're released, but taking the last full tax year figures released, from just before the pandemic (2019-20).....

 

Share of total income tax revenue (rounding to the nearest whole number)........

 

Top 1% of earners           - 30%

Top 90-99%.                      -31%

Top 50-90%.                      -30%

Bottom 50% of earners    - 9%

 

Add in NIC's, VAT etc, ........

 

Top 1% of earners           - 13% 

Top 90-99%.                       -21%

Top 50-90%.                       -41%

Bottom 50% of earners    -25%

 

You can see from those figures, that the top half of tax payers are paying 91% of all income tax and 75% of all personal tax income for the treasury.

The top 10% of earners, are paying 61% of total income tax revenue and 34% of total personal tax income.

As always, the middle to higher (50-90%) earners carry the highest personal tax load.

 

It's also worth noting that 42% of all adults (18yrs and above), pay no income tax at all....0%.

That group includes a proportion of non-tax paying pensioners and those that can't work, such as disabled people, but the majority are able bodied people of working age.

Many will be part time, others will be on very low pay  (below £12,570 p.a.) .

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Those able bodied people of working age that cant work and wont work are the ones who should be the ones struggling.  Why should the rest of us who have pride in ourselves by getting up and out to work, earning 5k or 100k, have to continually subsidise the workshy, who quite often have a better standard of living than those on low to medium wages?    Why is it fair that the terminally lazy can afford a new mid-range BMW whilst a low paid early shift worker has to walk 3 miles to work each day in all weathers because there is no public transport at that time?

 

I live in Scotland (though not a native), its regularly referred to as the sick man of Europe, I would refer to it as the f**kwit of Europe.  The majority of people here are wonderful, but more and more all I see are utter f**kwits walking around with lanyards saying they dont need to wear a mask.  As always, those in power continue to penalise those who contribute to the nations coffers...  

 

 

[30801]

31 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

Those able bodied people of working age that cant work and wont work are the ones who should be the ones struggling.  Why should the rest of us who have pride in ourselves by getting up and out to work, earning 5k or 100k, have to continually subsidise the workshy, who quite often have a better standard of living than those on low to medium wages?    Why is it fair that the terminally lazy can afford a new mid-range BMW whilst a low paid early shift worker has to walk 3 miles to work each day in all weathers because there is no public transport at that time?

 

I live in Scotland (though not a native), its regularly referred to as the sick man of Europe, I would refer to it as the f**kwit of Europe.  The majority of people here are wonderful, but more and more all I see are utter f**kwits walking around with lanyards saying they dont need to wear a mask.  As always, those in power continue to penalise those who contribute to the nations coffers...  

 

What is this? The Daily Mail letters page?

[PhilJ W]

17 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

Those able bodied people of working age that cant work and wont work are the ones who should be the ones struggling.  Why should the rest of us who have pride in ourselves by getting up and out to work, earning 5k or 100k, have to continually subsidise the workshy, who quite often have a better standard of living than those on low to medium wages?    Why is it fair that the terminally lazy can afford a new mid-range BMW whilst a low paid early shift worker has to walk 3 miles to work each day in all weathers because there is no public transport at that time?

 

I live in Scotland (though not a native), its regularly referred to as the sick man of Europe, I would refer to it as the f**kwit of Europe.  The majority of people here are wonderful, but more and more all I see are utter f**kwits walking around with lanyards saying they dont need to wear a mask.  As always, those in power continue to penalise those who contribute to the nations coffers...  

 

 

Do you know where 90% of the welfare budget goes? Well I will tell you, on the elderly. Most of whom have worked all their lives and contributed in tax and national insurance. If someone on benefits was driving around in a fancy new car I can assure you that they'd be looked at very closely. As for the people you say are walking about with lanyards saying the don't have to wear a mask there is an RMweb member who wears such a lanyard for a very good reason, he suffers from very severe asthma. Despite that he has carried on working throughout the pandemic in a public facing job. The real benefit cheats are those that can easily avoid paying any income tax at all.

[APOLLO]

The state pension is NOT a benefit. It has been paid over many years for by most.

 

Brit15

[boxbrownie]

8 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The state pension is NOT a benefit. It has been paid over many years for by most.

 

Brit15

True, but I think I knew what Phil meant……

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The state pension is NOT a benefit. It has been paid over many years for by most.

 

Brit15

 

I understood that the state pension of those currently retired was paid by those currently in work; just as today's pensioners paid for those who were retired when they were working. I think it's wrong to think of pensions or benefits as some sort of personal savings scheme, we should see it as some kind of collective insurance (bit like the NHS) which we pay into when we can and draw out of when we need to. Equally I think it's wrong to separate the poor into deserving and undeserving; we will never know the full circumstances that lead to individual poverty but factors will include what sort of start in life an individual will have had. There's a brilliant quote from Roy Hattersley which paraphrased is that meritocracy is just another way of apportioning inequality and is inherently unfair. Best I think to regard oneself as fortunate if one can make ends meet and that benefits/pensions are part of the social good of society.

 

[PhilJ W]

13 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The state pension is NOT a benefit. It has been paid over many years for by most.

 

Brit15

 

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

True, but I think I knew what Phil meant……

But the various top ups are. I am fortunate that I have a very good works pension but I wouldn't be able to get by on the basic state pension which is only a fraction of my income.

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 03/10/2021 at 22:34, PaulCheffus said:

I have a much simpler solution I just switch them off at the socket in the wall, no need for smart switches.

I know this is from a few pages back but I too was cynical until I gave them a go.

 

I plumped and got a little bit "smart-home" by having some plugs and a smart speaker.

Having a (very nearly) 2 year old means sometimes coming in from the outside can be a handful.  Simply saying "alexa, turn on the living room lamp" and the light that follows is much easier than flipping a switch (or in our case, a pull chain).  We don't use the main lights in our house but opt for lamps instead.  I know I could turn the main light on, get in then turn the lamp on, but it extends to more than that:

Being able to turn a light on in a room, while assisting said little one up the stairs means it's ready for purpose right before I need it instead of right after if I used the switch on the lamp.  I'd have to turn the landing light on, walk down the hall to turn the lamp on in Master STH's bedroom, then come back down the hall to turn the landing light off, then head back to the bedroom again.  A lot of effort and messing about.

 

Allowing the awkwardly plugged in Christmas tree lights to be controlled from my phone, or setting a lamp on a timer to turn off after guests have gone to bed are nice touches.  I can easily set the lamp to turn on 5 minutes after my alarm, which means the light is already on when I am coming down the stairs.

 

While some people have been sold expensive bulbs, the new (and perhaps better) way is having all the smart features in the switch.  That will likely be the new standard, and much like LED bulbs, will be expensive but over 3 or 4 years, I bet the price will tail off.

 

But the other lovely feature is not relying on some sort of set program for heating.

If our plans change (maybe we stayed for a couple of extra drinks or started another film), I can change the heating to what I want (either extend it's "on" status or delay it firing up).  Even more fun is that I can set it to fire up when I am 10 miles from home or something similar.  Or even ask the smart speaker to set the temperature or boost it for an hour.

 

All these things point to laziness but, like social media, if you use it to your advantages, it can be a useful tool indeed.

[30801]

On the subject of smart plugs Amazon are currently selling Kasa plugs with energy monitoring for a tenner.

 

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LZWBTR6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Monkersson]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Do you know where 90% of the welfare budget goes? Well I will tell you, on the elderly. Most of whom have worked all their lives and contributed in tax and national insurance.

I have to disagree with you Phil, and as been stated, those who contribute receive the state pension, which is not a benefit.

 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

If someone on benefits was driving around in a fancy new car I can assure you that they'd be looked at very closely.

Alas, that is not the case, quite the opposite in fact.  Its those who have minor problems such as being overpaid benefits, or wrongly declaring part time hours (mostly by accident) that are investigated and hammered.

 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

As for the people you say are walking about with lanyards saying the don't have to wear a mask there is an RMweb member who wears such a lanyard for a very good reason, he suffers from very severe asthma. Despite that he has carried on working throughout the pandemic in a public facing job.

I am sure there are many people on RMWeb who do the exact same things, like decent people, but there are a whole lot who have nothing wrong with them but think they are too good to wear a mask.   

 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

The real benefit cheats are those that can easily avoid paying any income tax at all.

Yes, those who will not work when the are perfectly capable of doing it

 

Unfortunately there is a growing section of society who think only of themselves and think society owes them.  Hence the panic buyers...

[Monkersson]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

What is this? The Daily Mail letters page?

Yeah, sorry about that...!

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 04/10/2021 at 20:02, SamThomas said:

We have not yet discussed the merits of dismantling custard creams or bourbons & re-assembling the halves with the cream to make them thicker.........

(don't have to do it with Oreo's now though).

Stand aside young padawan...

[pirouets]

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Do you know where 90% of the welfare budget goes?

Can I ask where you got that figure from?  I looked at the office for budget responsibility 2019 welfare report and it has £92bn of £223bn as pensions. I know pensioners do qualify for things like PIP (£24) & Housing benefit (£19bn) as well but they only make up about 1/3rd of the claimants based on working op v retired pop, but they don't get child benefit £12bn, tax credits £23bn. According to a 2016 OBR report the lions share of housing benefit goes to working age people £19bn. 

 

PhiljW said - It has been calculated that someone working full time on minimum wage now pays 48% of their income in taxes

 

Do you have a link for that as I would be interested to read it? If i work out someone on minimum wage, they get £18720 a year and pay £1228 in income tax plus £1098 in NIC which works out to a 12.42% rate against the full £18720 (Source - Money supermarket tax calculator) If they can afford to pay in to their pension it gets lower nut a different question if a 20yr old doing their 1st job and a single parent with 2 kids.  I know what they spend on can have VAT but if the have rent or mortgage, that is likely to be the biggest bill and 0 rated with utilities at 5%. Food will have VAT though not all of it, Staples such as bread, veg and cakes do not incur VAT.

 

Edit - my apologies to Hayfield for incorrectly attributing the quote to him.

Edited October 6, 2021 by pirouets

[PhilJ W]

24 minutes ago, pirouets said:

Can I ask where you got that figure from?  I looked at the office for budget responsibility 2019 welfare report and it has £92bn of £223bn as pensions. I know pensioners do qualify for things like PIP (£24) & Housing benefit (£19bn) as well but they only make up about 1/3rd of the claimants based on working op v retired pop, but they don't get child benefit £12bn, tax credits £23bn. According to a 2016 OBR report the lions share of housing benefit goes to working age people £19bn. 

 

Do you have a link for that as I would be interested to read it? If i work out someone on minimum wage, they get £18720 a year and pay £1228 in income tax plus £1098 in NIC which works out to a 12.42% rate against the full £18720 (Source - Money supermarket tax calculator) If they can afford to pay in to their pension it gets lower nut a different question if a 20yr old doing their 1st job and a single parent with 2 kids.  I know what they spend on can have VAT but if the have rent or mortgage, that is likely to be the biggest bill and 0 rated with utilities at 5%. Food will have VAT though not all of it, Staples such as bread, veg and cakes do not incur VAT.

There are other benefits such as free bus passes and discounted railcards. Not everyone had the assets or money to afford a care home so its down to the local authority to pay for their care. Care for the elderly is second only to education on local authority budgets in spending. These costs are not included in the government figures neither are other social costs such as transporting elderly people to and from hospital.

When it comes to VAT almost everything includes VAT including food as the transport of foodstuffs to retail outlets which is still liable for the full VAT of 20%. Whether you own or rent your home repairs and maintenance are also subject to VAT.

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, pirouets said:

Can I ask where you got that figure from?  I looked at the office for budget responsibility 2019 welfare report and it has £92bn of £223bn as pensions. I know pensioners do qualify for things like PIP (£24) & Housing benefit (£19bn) as well but they only make up about 1/3rd of the claimants based on working op v retired pop, but they don't get child benefit £12bn, tax credits £23bn. According to a 2016 OBR report the lions share of housing benefit goes to working age people £19bn. 

 

Do you have a link for that as I would be interested to read it? If i work out someone on minimum wage, they get £18720 a year and pay £1228 in income tax plus £1098 in NIC which works out to a 12.42% rate against the full £18720 (Source - Money supermarket tax calculator) If they can afford to pay in to their pension it gets lower nut a different question if a 20yr old doing their 1st job and a single parent with 2 kids.  I know what they spend on can have VAT but if the have rent or mortgage, that is likely to be the biggest bill and 0 rated with utilities at 5%. Food will have VAT though not all of it, Staples such as bread, veg and cakes do not incur VAT.

 

 

You somehow edited a quote and somehow attributed someone else's quote to me. Please do not do spread untruths

Edited October 6, 2021 by hayfield

[pirouets]

 

12 minutes ago, hayfield said:

You somehow edited a quote and somehow attributed someone else's quote to me. Please do not do spread untruths

 

My apologies and have edited the post to the correct poster and state the reason for the edit.

[pirouets]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

When it comes to VAT almost everything includes VAT including food as the transport of foodstuffs to retail outlets which is still liable for the full VAT of 20%

Not all of it is. My reading of this says it depends on the point of supply. If supply is outside of UK, then its 0. What I can't find is a consistent view on how much we import though it seems to be around 35%. Agree there is VAT in transport but its part of the cost of the bread getting to the shelves. What can't be done though is then slap another 5 or 20% VAT depending on the category such as the chocolate pudding I had which had 20% VAT

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services#transport-freight-travel-and-vehicles

 

Also if you have a look at this one, a huge amount of food is 0 rated. Though I can't figure out what VAT would be on a tin of biscuits if it contains partly covered in chocolate (zero vat) and fully covered (standard rate). Is it the %age of biscuits covered in chocolate? I had the Jaffa cake case explained to me some years ago by the QC who argued it. One of the things they did was make a huge Jaffa cake to show it decayed in the same way all cakes do and not like a biscuit.

 

Looked at our last Tesco receipt and only 9 items had VAT, which came to about £20 in total means £3.33 on the whole shop. I was surprised to find the Jacobs mini chedders being 0 rated but I guess they are a potato snack then.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/catering-takeaway-food-and-vat-notice-7091

 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

There are other benefits such as free bus passes and discounted railcards. Not everyone had the assets or money to afford a care home so its down to the local authority to pay for their care. Care for the elderly is second only to education on local authority budgets in spending. These costs are not included in the government figures neither are other social costs such as transporting elderly people to and from hospital.

Agree with all of that and been nosing around it got me nosing around to see what is in the local council budget. Do you have a link to a min wage person paying a nominal 48% when you look at all their costs. If you have a link would love to read it and see what I am missing.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Going back to skills shortages....

 

We had issues in a number of sectors, long before B***** and Covid.

Neither is this a problem unique to the UK.

 

There are growing problems in many of our neighbouring European countries and across the world.

South Korea for example...a strong vibrant and growing economy .....is now coming up to the buffers on availability of skilled workers in certain sectors, such as the booming battery tech sector.

 

One of the issues that's causing the worldwide shortage of micro chips, is that demand has boomed and there aren't enough highly qualified and trained staff in that field, which is constraining the ability to increase production..

There are staff shortages in this sector, in the USA, Japan, Taiwan and S Korea.

 

 

Looking at the largest and strongest economy in Europe....

 

Germany is heading into big problems with its ageing population and shortages of skills.

Even though they've got through recent years by using even more imported labour, the very large number of workers due to retire within the next 10 years is seriously worrying for them.

Estimates say they'll be 3 million....that's right....3 million workers short by 2030 !!!!

The Head of the German Federal Employment Agency, Detlef Scheele, said only a few weeks ago, that Germany needs 400,000 new workers per year to fill the labour market, which can only be possible by admitting more immigrants to the country, highlighting that Germany’s economy is currently dependent on immigration. 

 

German studies predict that 352 out of 801 occupations will face a skills shortage.

The affected sectors will include engineering, healthcare, and IT sectors.

There will be a shortage of skilled workers with vocational qualifications.

 

Occupations that will be impacted by skills shortage include:

Medical and healthcare service professionals

Engineering professionals (mechanical, automotive, and electrical engineering),

software development/programming,

supply and waste management,

STEM-related fields

Electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, toolmakers welders, etc.

Elderly care professionals

 

 

It seems to me, just hoping to import an endless supply of labour, ends up just fuelling a giant Ponzi Scheme and doesn't address some serious issues for mankind.

 

 

.

 

[PhilJ W]

Indeed, in Germany and other European countries there are the same problems with an ageing population and a reducing birth rate. The problem is that no one expected longevity to increase as much as it has. Whereas our grandparents on average expected to live until 70, our parents mostly survived into their mid to late 70's most of us can expect to reach our 80's (if we can avoid things like cancer and covid).