Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[Cofga]

On 29/09/2023 at 13:34, McC said:

 

Our warehouse team are 7 days now and we are about 80 meters from the DHL international hub :) 

Just got an email from DHL that they have picked up Anthony Manor and it is on its way with delivery expected by 5 Oct. So I guess I will be busy next weekend giving it a breakin and installing a decoder, etc. I am excited to see just how slow it will run on various DC controllers before conversion to DCC—Larry

Edited October 2, 2023 by Cofga

[steveb860]

Well I took the plunge and ordered Anthony Manor which arrived today. Whilst admiring it earlier I realised the water filler cap on the tender is hinged and opens! Now that is attention to detail.  

Just superb. 

[reddragon]

Weren't the last batch due by now? Seems I order the last model of each range to be delivered each time 🤪 7819 and 37001!! 

[gwrrob]

3 minutes ago, reddragon said:

Weren't the last batch due by now? 

 

@Accurascale Fran did say they were in transit last week.😉

[Mallard60022]

My Manor is still going beautifully. I do hope the Hawksworth County is as good. I am sure it will be. Two please.

Phil

[Covkid]

30 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

My Manor is still going beautifully. I do hope the Hawksworth County is as good. I am sure it will be. Two please.

Phil

 

What was that about the Hawksworth County ? Stop shouting 😀 

I think we all know it would be a fantastic product from Accurascale, and even I would have one in 1960s condition - quite filthy.

 

But studying the genesis of Accurscale products I don't think it quite matches their business model - yet.  I get the impression Accurascale like to go big and popular.  That is either the deltic with 22 fairly standard locos with just headcodes or ETC jumpers as detail diffferences - but a massive range of livery differences. Again, the 92 a smallish run of the class but many livery differences.  The Manor and the 37 on the other hand are huge projects with different tenders etc for the Manors and huge livery variations.

 

I get the impression that Hawksworth County sits there right in the middle with probably chimney differences (like the Manor) but maybe little else except the liveries of difference. I feel certain Accurascale will eventually announce the County, but maybe play a little game with yourselves and try to guess which Accurascale project manager would be the "sponsor" of the model ?  I think "Pixie" is involved in the Manor, but I imagine he would want a change from GW 4-6-0s for a couple of years.  Mr Isles seems busy with the "Buckjumper" and someone is still heavily involved in the class 31 I would imagine.    

 

Just my two pennoth

Edited October 3, 2023 by Covkid

[Ian Hargrave]

13 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

@Accurascale Fran did say they were in transit last week.😉

Derails took payment for my 7818 yesterday.Dan is uncertain as to exactly when but notification of delivery has been received..

[McC]

3 hours ago, Covkid said:

I get the impression that Hawksworth County sits there right in the middle with probably chimney differences (like the Manor) but maybe little else except the liveries of difference. I feel certain Accurascale will eventually announce the County, but maybe play a little game with yourselves and try to guess which Accurascale project manager would be the "sponsor" of the model ?  I think "Pixie" is involved in the Manor, but I imagine he would want a change from GW 4-6-0s for a couple of years.  Mr Isles seems busy with the "Buckjumper" and someone is still heavily involved in the class 31 I would imagine.    

 

Pixie is actually the Production Manager, so he oversees all projects, and manages the 'programme' of production. We do have a large and growing team of project managers however, and many many many many projects underway not yet announced :) 

[woodenhead]

On 29/09/2023 at 18:34, McC said:

 

Our warehouse team are 7 days now and we are about 80 meters from the DHL international hub :) 

You could slingshot the boxes over to them from there then 🤣

[IOW O2]

Further on the slow running qualities on DC, by chance (after accidently knocking tender off rails) I have found that by lifting the tender my Torquay I can get a slower crawl  As someone said a while back, I wonder as well what the electronic gubbins in tender is doing to the DC input that stops the motor going slow.

 

Doing a few tests by; set lowest speed with tender lifted, lower tender it stops, lift tender it moves. Lift loco and set lowest speed the loco wheels will turn at when in the air, lower loco and will move at the slowest with tender, lift tender and it speeds up.

 

As a rough guide with other locos, slowest speed of Manor over 12in, loco only 9 secs, with tender 5, Hby BoB 15 secs, Bach N class 11 secs.

 

The main issue is the Manor when loaded with 4 or more coaches can slow to an acceptable stop then start, but when uncoupling in a terminal platform it takes off so quick it hits the buffers in the 1.5in shunt space from loco buffers to terminal buffers, very similar to the Deltic.

 

I could I suppose just uncouple the wiring from tender as I will not be going DCC, or if I get brave find which of the wires will be for power only.

Edited October 3, 2023 by IOW O2
grammar

[Harlequin]

20 minutes ago, IOW O2 said:

Further on the slow running qualities on DC, by chance (after accidently knocking tender off rails) I have found that by lifting the tender my Torquay I can get a slower crawl  As someone said a while back, I wonder as well what the electronic gubbins in tender is doing to the DC input that stops the motor going slow.

 

Doing a few tests by; set lowest speed with tender lifted, lower tender it stops, lift tender it moves. Lift loco and set lowest speed the loco wheels will turn at when in the air, lower loco and will move at the slowest with tender, lift tender and it speeds up.

 

As a rough guide with other locos, slowest speed of  Manor over 12in, loco only 10 secs,  with tender 5, Hby BoB 15 secs, Bach N class 1.

 

The main issue is the Manor when loaded with 4 or more coaches can slow to an acceptable stop then start, but when uncoupling in a terminal platform it takes off so quick it hits the buffers in the 1.5in shunt space from loco buffers to terminal buffers, very similar to the Deltic.

 

I could I suppose just uncouple the wiring from tender as I will not be going DCC, or if I get brave find which of the wires will be for power only.

 

The blanking plate that's installed in DC versions connects the pickups directly to the motor. So the electronics in the tender are almost certainly not affecting loco slow speed performance on DC.

 

And all the pickups, including the ones from the loco, are wired to the decoder socket, through the blanking plate and back to the motor so simply unplugging the tender will result in no connection between motor and rails.

 

I think the effects you are seeing, including the change when lifting the tender off the track, is purely electro-mechanical - but I don't understand why...

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Harlequin

[IOW O2]

7 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

.....so simply unplugging the tender will result in no connection between motor and rails.

 

I think the effects you are seeing, including the change when lifting the tender off the track, is purely electro-mechanical - but I don't understand why...

Thanks, do you mean the loco should not move if the tender is lifted clear or not attached, my testing involved walking round the layout holding the tender.  I will be going back up shortly so will explore further.

[Harlequin]

5 minutes ago, IOW O2 said:

Thanks, do you mean the loco should not move if the tender is lifted clear or not attached, my testing involved walking round the layout holding the tender.  I will be going back up shortly so will explore further.

Lifting the tender off the track, while it remains plugged into the loco, will mean that just the loco pickups are passing power from the track to the motor. So it will still work.

 

Unplugging the tender will mean the motor can't get any power at all so then it won't move whether the tender is lifted or not.

 

[IOW O2]

3 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Unplugging the tender will mean the motor can't get any power at all so then it won't move whether the tender is lifted or not.

With you now. 

[Torbay Express]

Hoping when it's time for another run,  being a kid of the 1980's & 90's 7827 Lydham Manor features in its preserved Great Western Green, Pleeeeeeaaaaaassssseeee! Before it's later stint in Black when Dinmore arrived.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

6 hours ago, McC said:

many many many many projects underway not yet announced :) 

ohh heck..............

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

23 hours ago, gwrrob said:

in transit

Richards New Junction one...........perks of the job.

[57xx]

6 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I think the effects you are seeing, including the change when lifting the tender off the track, is purely electro-mechanical - but I don't understand why...

 

As the slowing down effect happens on a rolling road, I'm not sure where the mechanical aspect comes in? To me it seems like there is some resistance in the loco pickups that is reducing the voltage to the motor that is not noticeable in normal running with the tender pickups in play.

[57xx]

My replacement Manor arrived the tail end of last week, the previous one being returned due to the amount of QC problems with it. Thus it was disappointing to immediately find a loose chimney on the replacement, QC needs looking at on these. The gimmicky tender filler cap is also wonky again, it looks on closer examination to be the way it is fixed on (or in this case - not fixed properly). I'll probably just remove it altogether and replace it with something glued shut that has more scale size hinges rather than the clunky things on there now.

 

Running wise, this one is a real growler. It's had a couple of hours of running now and the noise (I think from the gearbox) has reduced but it still has a strange squeak that was also there from the start. Like with modern cars, I think "running in" is a bit of dated concept. I've had plenty of models that run smoothly right out of the box without having to be run for ages to get rid of bad noises. Unlike the previous one I had tried on pure DC, this one doesn't jump out of the blocks when starting. Using my ECM Compspeed (DC with PWM) it will take off smoothly and can run slowly too so that is a plus.

[The Johnster]

40 minutes ago, 57xx said:

Like with modern cars, I think "running in" is a bit of dated concept.

 

I prefer to run my new locos in, and do not have a continuous test track, so running in usually means about half an hour in each direction upside down or suspended between blocks with crocodiles clipped to the motor terminals, first ten minutes at about 60 driving wheel rpm, next ten at twice that, and last ten as slow as I can make the mech run smoothly.  I have never had cause to regret doing this.  I then set about tweaking to improve slow running, which involves checking the pickup wipers, back-to-backs, and everywhere that is connected to something else that moves in the motion.  Next task is to check the gear meshing, and play with the keeper plate retaining screwhead bolts you are looking for the Goldilocks positon.  Too loose and gear meshing is affected and the loco will jerk and lurch all over the place, and too tight will stiffen the mech up, losing you any chance of smooth stopping and starting.  When you have established the Goldilocks postion, secure it with a spot, no more, of superglue; if you need to remove the bolts the bond breaks easily and you can clean up the mess and re-glue when you re-assemble.  Oh, and ballasting to get the maximum adhesive weight you can manage above the driving wheels never does any harm either...

 

I do not regard it as complete running in, because of course the way the motion and bearings 'sit' when the loco is on the track is different, so for the first fortnight or so loads are light and speeds slow.  By this time the loco 'should be' giving very close to it's best performance, and is ready for 'normal service'.  I parenthesised 'should be', because that's not always what happens.  I find that model locos are as individualist in their behaviour as real steam ones, not a problem so long as they are within ballpark and actually useful as you can play to their strengths and avoid any weaknesses.  Some are noisier than others but this does not seem to affect performance, which is counter-intuitive as something making noise is, one would have thought, producing energy (in the form of the noise) which is not being used to propel the loco in the direction required smoothly and efficiently.  A Bachmann 8750 refuses to run as quietly as I am accustomed to this company's locos doing, but is a lovely smooth little runner and one of my favourites.

 

Some improve over time, which is, again, counter-intuitive.  An Airfix 61xx which finally died on me about five years ago was initially a bag of nails that could not be relied on for a smooth performance but, over some four decades of intermittent use, learned to behave and it's clatter reduced to a not unpleasant 37-like soft growl.  Then the slide bars broke, which is a shame because it would probably have been quiet and a really good runner by now...  My Baccy 94xx was good straight from the box, but is getting steadily better and better; I suppose this is 'bedding in' rather than running in.

[IOW O2]

13 hours ago, 57xx said:

As the slowing down effect happens on a rolling road, I'm not sure where the mechanical aspect comes in? To me it seems like there is some resistance in the loco pickups that is reducing the voltage to the motor that is not noticeable in normal running with the tender pickups in play.

I don't have a rolling rolling road, it was on track.  I made this ski last night so loco could pull along track to set lowest speed with tender off track and one coach to keep the tender ski straight.  Power was cut at switch, ski removed switch on nothing, lift tender moves off.  As Harlequin said, it doesn't make sense.

Edited October 4, 2023 by IOW O2
spelling

[PhilMortimer]

I would be considering if placing the tender on teh track is somehow causing a short circuit or partial short (i.e. a short with a high resiststance) to develop, hence why things are not working as well when the tender wheels are in contact with the track.

 

First thing I would do would be to contact Accurascale Warranty dept, giving all  the information (and video if you have it) - they will be in the best place to help you.

 

But for self investigation, I believe (and would have to check) that the tender has pickups. Therefore I would look to see if ther is an obvious short somewhere or if there is some wiring or solder assembly that isn't quite right in the tender, allowing a short to develop when tender wheels are connected to the track.

 

PM

[IOW O2]

13 minutes ago, PhilMortimer said:

First thing I would do would be to contact Accurascale Warranty dept, giving all  the information (and video if you have it) - they will be in the best place to help you.

 

But for self investigation, I believe (and would have to check) that the tender has pickups. Therefore I would look to see if ther is an obvious short somewhere or if there is some wiring or solder assembly that isn't quite right in the tender, allowing a short to develop when tender wheels are connected to the track.

Thanks, it was bought from a retailer so would go back to them, mine was a replacement for one that was DOA on arrival at shop (they test before dispatch).  The tender does have pickups if loco is lifted the loco wheels revolve.  I may well investigate myself next week, in process of setting up new PC that arrived today to replace my ageing 2008 one I'm on now, then away from Saturday to next Wednesday. Thanks.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

4 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

I don't have a rolling rolling road, it was on track.  I made this ski last night so loco could pull along track to set lowest speed with tender off track and one coach to keep the tender ski straight.  Power was cut at switch, ski removed switch on nothing, lift tender moves off.  As Harlequin said, it doesn't make sense.

Have you checked in the tender as it sounds like its dead shorting through the tenders wheels,are they to ground or reversed in polarity?

[IOW O2]

On 04/10/2023 at 17:08, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Have you checked in the tender as it sounds like its dead shorting through the tenders wheels,are they to ground or reversed in polarity?

I got fed up with setting up new computer so investigated this afternoon.  All OK apart from the blanking plug was lifted at one end so pushed in firmly, this has to have stopped the issue, but still can't get a smooth start with light engine.

 

However as in pic below is the cocktail stick highlighted part a blanking plug or a decoder.  I know nowt about DCC but I'm sure in some of my other locos they did not look like this. Ta.