Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

On 08/07/2022 at 23:18, BroadLeaves said:

the words "Pay in full now"

Should be part of the wedding ceremony,would sort a lot of uncertainty.......

[Cofga]

Sorry, I have been otherwise occupied the last week and am just getting back to catching up on this thread. I seem to have stirred the pot a bit so let me say that from an accuracy standpoint I applaud the extent to which Accurascale has gone in producing a potentially great model. My only question concerns the performance and I hope to see they have found a really good performing motor for that end. Fran and Accurascale have made a good faith effort to answer relevant questions on that matter and for that I am thankful and applaud their willingness to provide these details. From the announcements it appears we will not have all that long to wait to see the final products from both companies. Given the positive reviews of the Accurascale Deltics, if they get even close to their details and performance their Manor will be a winner.  

Edited July 10, 2022 by Cofga

[Cofga]

On 08/07/2022 at 07:32, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Harlequin,

 

I think it's very important to remember that the sound is in an early sample, and agree that it is hard to capture this on video, but there are also packaging in such a small loco to consider too. We will try our best, naturally.

 

It is also important to note that since this sample the PCB has been totally redesigned to allow more space and better motor control. We will go into detail on this in our update next week, and this is also a first draft sound file, in a pre-production model. The final model customers receive will naturally be a lot better. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

I don’t know what speaker you used but for really good bass frequencies I have found that “high bass” speakers give the best sound for steam locos—much better than the flat round ones or even the best “sugar cubes”. 

[BroadLeaves]

On 08/07/2022 at 18:46, McC said:

When decorated samples are in give retailers a couple of weeks to firm up their guaranteed preorders with us. 
Use those retailer preorders plus direct preorders to understand demand and put that x 1.4 into a production run. 
6 months later or less, deliver 100% of all preorders and full trade allocations and hopefully have a little stock in hand for those that missed out or want to buy when in stock. 
it’s literally not rocket science. 

As someone else said, the 1.4 multiplier is interesting. You're expecting pre-orders to be 71% of total sales.

So are the decorated samples in yet? This page https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/news/gosh-where-are-our-manors-decorated-samples-and-update says they arrived in Dec 2021. Is that what we saw in the video? 

[Cofga]

Hattons says they are due in between July and September 2022 which is pretty close to that 6 month lead time estimate.

[Accurascale Fran]

10 hours ago, BroadLeaves said:

As someone else said, the 1.4 multiplier is interesting. You're expecting pre-orders to be 71% of total sales.

So are the decorated samples in yet? This page https://www.accurascale.com/blogs/news/gosh-where-are-our-manors-decorated-samples-and-update says they arrived in Dec 2021. Is that what we saw in the video? 

 

Hi @BroadLeaves,

 

That blog you linked to announcing the arrival of decorated manors with pictures of decorated manors is indeed signalling the arrival of decorated manors, so yes, they are in. And yes, one of them from the blog is what you saw on the video.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[BroadLeaves]

@Accurascale FranOk, I'm just trying to tie up 

"When decorated samples are in give retailers a couple of weeks to firm up their guaranteed preorders ...6 months later or less, deliver 100% of all preorders" from @McC 

and the fact that it's more than six months since the decorated samples arrived... and no deliveries yet. I get that delivery schedules are still being impacted for a lot of manufacturers, but it was someone who is, I think, an Accurascale employee said the above, and so given that, they should have been delivered by now.

I think part of the problem is that I'm not sure how to interpret https://www.accurascale.com/pages/project-status What does "arrived mean"? Is that the same as "physically delivered to the customer"? That page says "2022 Q3" for the Manors. Is that still the case? Q3 2022 ends in just over 11 weeks time.
 

[foggyjames]

On 08/07/2022 at 16:54, Miss Prism said:

 

Appreciated, but you know what RMweb is like, and there are ample Hornby threads to explore that area. Let's try to keep this one to nice Manors.

 

 

Oh indeed, and I wasn't proposing a diversion onto other brands...just my way of saying that I think Accurascale are doing the right thing!

 

cheers

 

James

[foggyjames]

On 08/07/2022 at 17:34, BroadLeaves said:

It's not always easy to predict sales volume at the time you are commissioning the model and allocating production slots though.

If you know of a foolproof way to know, six months in advance of release, how many of a certain model will sell, I'm sure Hornby would love to hear from you. 

 

Again, not looking to tangent, but if I were Accurascale and were doing market research, I'd be looking at:

a) How quickly the first batch sold out, and in particular certain livery variants

b) Used prices (eBay, etc).

 

In the example I cited earlier, it's clear the market would stand a massively increased production run of that particular model (and it's been that way for years, with that particular model!). Not foolproof, that but particular example seems glaringly obvious to me.

 

cheers

 

James

[McC]

1 minute ago, foggyjames said:

 

Again, not looking to tangent, but if I were Accurascale and were doing market research, I'd be looking at:

a) How quickly the first batch sold out, and in particular certain livery variants

b) Used prices (eBay, etc).

 

In the example I cited earlier, it's clear the market would stand a massively increased production run of that particular model (and it's been that way for years, with that particular model!). Not foolproof, that but particular example seems glaringly obvious to me.

 

cheers

 

James

 

Massively increased production runs, take longer to make, tie up more capital and slow the progress of the other 100 things we want to make too...

[foggyjames]

4 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Massively increased production runs, take longer to make, tie up more capital and slow the progress of the other 100 things we want to make too...

For the avoidance of doubt, I was talking about Hornby's HST in blue/grey/yellow livery (which I shouldn't be talking about here!), rather than what you guys are up to. I'm sure in the 10 years(?) that's been out they could have figured out that a) there's big demand, and b) found a production slot...as at the moment they're just leaving money on the table!

 

Anyway - threadjack over - sounds like you guys have a good formula worked out, and I hope it continues to pay off. It sounds like it will. I will certainly be very interested to see the two new Manor offerings side-by-side. I have a hunch that, even though my preferred loco is available from the outset in the 'other' range, I'll be hanging on...!

 

cheers

 

James

[Michael Hodgson]

15 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Massively increased production runs, take longer to make, tie up more capital and slow the progress of the other 100 things we want to make too...

Agreed, but looking at how most of the runs seem to be immediately sold out once they arrive, I suspect you would get away with increasing the batch sizes slightly and would still sell out, presumably improving margins.  On the other hand, I suppose it would longer before another batch (with slightly different options) became viable, and we'd have longer to wait for further running numbers..

 

But it's a commercial decision and it's not my money invested in the company.

[Accurascale Fran]

2 hours ago, BroadLeaves said:

@Accurascale FranOk, I'm just trying to tie up 

"When decorated samples are in give retailers a couple of weeks to firm up their guaranteed preorders ...6 months later or less, deliver 100% of all preorders" from @McC 

and the fact that it's more than six months since the decorated samples arrived... and no deliveries yet. I get that delivery schedules are still being impacted for a lot of manufacturers, but it was someone who is, I think, an Accurascale employee said the above, and so given that, they should have been delivered by now.

I think part of the problem is that I'm not sure how to interpret https://www.accurascale.com/pages/project-status What does "arrived mean"? Is that the same as "physically delivered to the customer"? That page says "2022 Q3" for the Manors. Is that still the case? Q3 2022 ends in just over 11 weeks time.
 

 

Hi @BroadLeaves,

 

As stated last week, we will have a full update on the Manor this week. I will confirm everything above in that update. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Agreed, but looking at how most of the runs seem to be immediately sold out once they arrive, I suspect you would get away with increasing the batch sizes slightly and would still sell out, presumably improving margins.  On the other hand, I suppose it would longer before another batch (with slightly different options) became viable, and we'd have longer to wait for further running numbers..

 

But it's a commercial decision and it's not my money invested in the company.

Judging by what McC posted and by the mess Hornby manages to get itself into with Year 2 releases, let alone not meeting retailer orders in Year 1, I have much more than a strong suspicion that Accurascale know exactly what they are at when it comes to marketing and ordering the factory runs for their models (and, hopefully, maximising the return on their investment).

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

To be honest i think the boys have this spot on as far as models times and numbers are concerned,once the batch is sold out its tough if you did not get one,theres been enough time to order them.Once they are gone the e bay prices are what ever someone wants to pay,better worth something than worthless if you or your family have to sell them.As far as e bay is concerned no one forces you to buy,it just takes two or more to want something then the skys the limit.....its up to the individual,i just commend how open and honest they are with us.

[Cofga]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

To be honest i think the boys have this spot on as far as models times and numbers are concerned,once the batch is sold out its tough if you did not get one,theres been enough time to order them.Once they are gone the e bay prices are what ever someone wants to pay,better worth something than worthless if you or your family have to sell them.As far as e bay is concerned no one forces you to buy,it just takes two or more to want something then the skys the limit.....its up to the individual,i just commend how open and honest they are with us.

Yes but, these days everyone expects at least a second run so some will always sit on their hands and wait to see how the first batch turns out. When I got my GWR Mogul I wished I had waited as the version I preordered actually did not arrive with the outside steam pipes as originally listed and I had actually changed my order just for that detail—thanks Dapol! Had I waited I believe that version arrived in the second run. So there are arguments for the wait and see approach. And of course there is the uncertainty of two models of the same loco being promised at about the same time. Just look back at the large prairie kerfuffle.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Cofga

[BroadLeaves]

14 minutes ago, Cofga said:

some will always sit on their hands and wait to see how the first batch turns out. When I got my GWR Mogul I wished I had waited

In a similar vein, I seem to recall that the early Oxford Rails Dean Goods had the washout plugs directly behind the handrail, which was then corrected in later toolings.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, BroadLeaves said:

In a similar vein, I seem to recall that the early Oxford Rails Dean Goods had the washout plugs directly behind the handrail, which was then corrected in later toolings.

The cab sidesheets were also wrong on the original release, which was corrected.

It then had a downgraded motor. Went from 5 pole skew wound 2 flywheels to cheap three pole coreless, one flywheel.

 

Best ones are early chassis, late body. Watch out for body swaps on e-bay.

 

 

[Cofga]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

The cab sidesheets were also wrong on the original release, which was corrected.

It then had a downgraded motor. Went from 5 pole skew wound 2 flywheels to cheap three pole coreless, one flywheel.

 

Best ones are early chassis, late body. Watch out for body swaps on e-bay.

 

 

Yes, I actually ordered one with the LokSound decoder fitted and it ran horribly. After some investigation we reached the conclusion that the LokSound decoder had been tweaked for the original 5 pole motor and then when the cheaper one was swapped in, the performance tanked. I made numerous efforts to adjust the decoder but finally gave up and installed a SoundTraxx UK steam decoder and it runs well now, but of course it is too light or the motor too weak to pull much more than its tender on a flat! Back a couple of years ago @Harlequin posted this about the DG motor:

 

When I was researching these types of motor, looking for a replacement, I found out that they are mainly used in, ahem, personal massagers...

 

Which may explain why I am so concerned about motors.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Cofga

[Phil Bullock]

5 hours ago, Cofga said:

Yes, I actually ordered one with the LokSound decoder fitted and it ran horribly. After some investigation we reached the conclusion that the LokSound decoder had been tweaked for the original 5 pole motor and then when the cheaper one was swapped in, the performance tanked. I made numerous efforts to adjust the decoder but finally gave up and installed a SoundTraxx UK steam decoder and it runs well now, but of course it is too light or the motor too weak to pull much more than its tender on a flat! Back a couple of years ago @Harlequin posted this about the DG motor:

 

When I was researching these types of motor, looking for a replacement, I found out that they are mainly used in, ahem, personal massagers...

 

Which may explain why I am so concerned about motors.

Surely that means they will move heaven and earth then? 😉

[B15nac]

Surely it's update day can't wait?😃

 

Regards Neil 

[JST]

Are we there yet dad? 😁

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

On 12/07/2022 at 06:30, Phil Bullock said:

Surely that means they will move heaven and earth then? 😉

So the James Web is looking for somewhere to move us to.......like a cosmic sat nav

If we move do we go back in time to the steam era.........or BR blue.

[GeoffBird]

Looking at the pictures available so far and the descriptions in Accurascale and Rails posts, it would seem that to finish off these wonderful new locos we are going to need to add some proper etched name andnumberplates.  Am i right?

[SteamingWales]

7 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Looking at the pictures available so far and the descriptions in Accurascale and Rails posts, it would seem that to finish off these wonderful new locos we are going to need to add some proper etched name andnumberplates.  Am i right?

 

It has been quoted various times (although I don't blame you for scrolling through 50 pages) that the production models will be fitted in the factory with etched nameplates and numberplates supplied in the accessory bags