Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[The Black Hat]

46 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I'm afraid I was underwhelmed. It sounded similar to many other steam sound projects I've heard and I was hoping for better bass reproduction. (I realise that it is difficult to capture model sounds on video, though, so maybe it sounds better in real life.)

One of the starts was worryingly jerky.

 

Think they are okay over all. Its still the first video and try as Fran has mentioned. Personally, I dont think the 'bark' from a manor is there much at all. Perhaps that could be due to the driving on the video or perhaps due to using a dynamic break system. 

Some of the best steam sound files I have come from Howes. Even if these have been around for a while to me they are some of the best. The difference in set off speed when applies determines how much bark you get and the wheeze from the valves before the engine takes power is much more noticeable as it is on the real thing. Id look at these for the set up... if these are fitted with Loksound are you using the drive lock function so that the Manor can bark using that system instead?

[longchap]

15 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Bill,

 

I'm sorry, but I dont quite follow. Installation? They come fitted with this sound from the factory, so you put it on the track and run the locomotive.

 

Sorry, I might have misinterpreted your point.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Hi Fran,

 

Thanks for your swift response. I'm aware they are sound fitted, as I have just ordered one, but wanted the confidence of seeing the installation before ordering. Other manufacturers offer sound fitted locos and what lies beneath the body shell is sometimes frightening!  

 

Will the sound file and all sound hardware all be fitted in the factory?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by longchap

[foggyjames]

Danger of a tangent here, but...

One of the reasons I'm unconvinced about DCC Sound in anything below O gauge is the lack of bass response to create a convincing effect. You can play some tricks, sure, but in the end low-frequency reproduction is really about moving air, and you just don't have the space to fit transducers large enough to move the required volume of air in the body of a OO gauge (or smaller!) locomotive, and the absence of enough mass (Accurascale's Deltic aside, maybe!) to stop the things rattling like hell if you tried / succeeded.

Having said that, there are two possible areas which someone might want to investigate:

1) Some of the miniature loudspeakers found in phones and tablets (and, crucially, their control chips) are remarkable, and will easily out-perform a conventional cone speaker even several times the size. There might be some viability in someone looking into that in more detail. As it happens, I have been doing exactly that in a professional capacity lately...!

2) Our perception of directivity at low frequencies is quite poor (a function of the wavelengths involved and spacing of our ears), so there might be some viability in a fixed "master module" (loaded with appropriate sound profiles) which takes a DCC input and provides a summed version of all low-frequency audio demands from the layout to a line-output to a subwoofer which sits somewhere in the room. With higher-frequencies (think the "click' component of a door-slam, for example, rather than the "thud") providing the clues as to where the sound is coming from, the brain almost certainly wouldn't notice that most of the low-end is not localised to a particular model. I suspect it would work well for anything other than the very largest of domestic layouts.

 

A product idea for someone, maybe? I accept royalties 😉

 

cheers

 

James

[Islesy]

19 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I think it would be easy to do.

An awful lot of people in this hobby (and other hobbies besides), think many things are 'easy to do', as they comment from the sidelines. What you speak of may well become a 'thing' at some point, but that will take a lot of R&D time, testing and fine tuning, none of which comes cheap in terms of man hours (a cost to a business that cannot be recouped). We could spend our days researching pyscho-sound, but that is time lost to other projects and models that will recoup our investment in them.

A harsh reality maybe, but the one that faces us as a small business....

 

Best wishes,

Paul.

[Barry Ten]

6 minutes ago, foggyjames said:

Danger of a tangent here, but...
With higher-frequencies (think the "click' component of a door-slam, for example, rather than the "thud") providing the clues as to where the sound is coming from, the brain almost certainly wouldn't notice that most of the low-end is not localised to a particular model. I suspect it would work well for anything other than the very largest of domestic layouts.

 

A product idea for someone, maybe? I accept royalties 😉

 

cheers

 

James

 

It's a pretty well-established idea (['ve seen it implemented in a home-brewed fashion on quite a few layouts) and already out there as at least one commercial product, BLI's Rolling Thunder.

 

https://www.broadway-limited.com/rollingthunder.aspx

[SteamingWales]

Really looking forward to these and nice to see a full running sample too!!!

 

Glad I have sound versions on order, the afformentioned tweaks should make them sound great. If I didn't have all 3 BR Late Crest versions on order I would definitely be buying another!!!

[Harlequin]

24 minutes ago, Islesy said:

An awful lot of people in this hobby (and other hobbies besides), think many things are 'easy to do', as they comment from the sidelines. What you speak of may well become a 'thing' at some point, but that will take a lot of R&D time, testing and fine tuning, none of which comes cheap in terms of man hours (a cost to a business that cannot be recouped). We could spend our days researching pyscho-sound, but that is time lost to other projects and models that will recoup our investment in them.

A harsh reality maybe, but the one that faces us as a small business....

 

Best wishes,

Paul.

 

It was a constructive suggestion. You are dismissing it very quickly but, fair point, I understand that nothing in life is ever really "easy".

 

I know you guys are going much further than other manufacturers do in many ways and I'm looking forward to receiving a beautiful loco from you.

 

[melmerby]

20 minutes ago, foggyjames said:

Danger of a tangent here, but...

One of the reasons I'm unconvinced about DCC Sound in anything below O gauge is the lack of bass response to create a convincing effect. You can play some tricks, sure, but in the end low-frequency reproduction is really about moving air, and you just don't have the space to fit transducers large enough to move the required volume of air in the body of a OO gauge (or smaller!) locomotive, and the absence of enough mass (Accurascale's Deltic aside, maybe!) to stop the things rattling like hell if you tried / succeeded.

Having said that, there are two possible areas which someone might want to investigate:

1) Some of the miniature loudspeakers found in phones and tablets (and, crucially, their control chips) are remarkable, and will easily out-perform a conventional cone speaker even several times the size. There might be some viability in someone looking into that in more detail. As it happens, I have been doing exactly that in a professional capacity lately...!

2) Our perception of directivity at low frequencies is quite poor (a function of the wavelengths involved and spacing of our ears), so there might be some viability in a fixed "master module" (loaded with appropriate sound profiles) which takes a DCC input and provides a summed version of all low-frequency audio demands from the layout to a line-output to a subwoofer which sits somewhere in the room. With higher-frequencies (think the "click' component of a door-slam, for example, rather than the "thud") providing the clues as to where the sound is coming from, the brain almost certainly wouldn't notice that most of the low-end is not localised to a particular model. I suspect it would work well for anything other than the very largest of domestic layouts.

 

A product idea for someone, maybe? I accept royalties 😉

 

cheers

 

James

Agree regarding sounds, I find the lack of bass totally removes any attempt at "realistic sound"

Moving air to produce low frequency sounds is just basic physics, small transducers cannot reproduce proper low frequencies.

There was even someone on here who claimed there was something wrong with my ears because I said his sound fitted locos were unrealistic due to lack of bass.☹️

It doesn't help because the sound guys call 20mm sugar cubes "Bass reflex speakers"

Can they move a lot of air at below say 100Hz? No they can't and that's where the stomach churning rumble on a real loco is.

 

Freiwald do an add on sound system (+4D sound) for Train Controller where large speakers are placed around the layout and the sound mix produced allows sounds to move with the loco, depending on where it is on the diagram.

(I know nothing about the sound files used)

 

[foggyjames]

35 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

It's a pretty well-established idea (['ve seen it implemented in a home-brewed fashion on quite a few layouts) and already out there as at least one commercial product, BLI's Rolling Thunder.

 

https://www.broadway-limited.com/rollingthunder.aspx

 

With hindsight, it seems a bit unlikely that I'd have been the first to think of such a thing...! 😂

 

cheers

 

James

[Accurascale Fran]

51 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

Hi Fran,

 

Thanks for your swift response. I'm aware they are sound fitted, as I have just ordered one, but wanted the confidence of seeing the installation before ordering. Other manufacturers offer sound fitted locos and what lies beneath the body shell is sometimes frightening!  

 

Will the sound file and all sound hardware all be fitted in the factory?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

No problem at all! Yes, it will be fully fitted, from the factory, so all you have to do is plonk it on the track. The decoder and PCB will live in the tender for any easy access required. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Miss Prism]

Good door sound at 0:21

[foggyjames]

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

There was even someone on here who claimed there was something wrong with my ears because I said his sound fitted locos were unrealistic due to lack of bass.☹️

 

...and there is a market for even the crummiest of audio equipment! 😂 Many people are quite happy to admit that their ears are simply not particularly well-tuned, and that's fair enough. If on-loco sound does the job for them, good for them!

 

At the risk of returning from my self-imposed tangent, Fran (et al)...is there likely to be a further run, representing other locomotives? If you're nearly sold-out, hopefully it isn't commercially sensitive to answer. If I'm going to buy a Manor, it would have to be Lydham. I can be patient...! 😀

 

cheers

 

James

Edited July 8, 2022 by foggyjames

[Accurascale Fran]

2 minutes ago, foggyjames said:

 

...and there is a market for even the crummiest of audio equipment! 😂 Many people are quite happy to admit that their ears are simply not particularly well-tuned, and that's fair enough. If on-loco sound does the job for them, good for them!

 

At the risk of returning from my self-imposed tangent, Fran (et al)...is there likely to be a further run, representing other locomotives? If you're nearly sold-out, hopefully it isn't commercially sensitive to answer. If I'm going to buy a Manor, it would have to be Lydham. I can be patient...! 😀

 

cheers

 

James

 

Hi James,

 

Absolutely, there will be future runs. We've been getting such questions a lot lately on the sell out of our Deltics. I think there is a perception that as we are a "new kid on the block" we wont do reruns etc (and I know you're not suggesting that, it's just a general mindset).

 

We have picked and designed these models to have in our catalogue for many years to come, year on year. So, if the one you want isnt in run 1, it most certainly may end up in run 2, 3 or 4 in time. We are, after all, here for the long haul.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[SteamingWales]

19 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Absolutely, there will be future runs. We've been getting such questions a lot lately on the sell out of our Deltics

 

At what point do we get to start wish listing like in the Deltic thread 😅

 

I personally have a few in mind that I would like to see

[Phil Bullock]

Just now, SteamingWales said:

 

At what point do we get to start wish listing like in the Deltic thread 😅

 

I personally have a few in mind that I would like to see

How about one with a 4000 gallon tender? That could be useful for other projects too 😉

[McC]

41 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

We have picked and designed these models to have in our catalogue for many years to come, year on year. So, if the one you want isnt in run 1, it most certainly may end up in run 2, 3 or 4 in time. We are, after all, here for the long haul.

 

It' even one of our stated philosophies on our website :)

 

 

We plan to deliver a sustainable range of quality models, that grows over time, and for which availability is sustained.

https://www.accurascale.com/pages/about

[Phil Bullock]

1 minute ago, McC said:

 

It' even one of our stated philosophies on our website :)

 

 

We plan to deliver a sustainable range of quality models, that grows over time, and for which availability is sustained.

https://www.accurascale.com/pages/about

The prototypes selected to date may cause you problems! Can you make enough to ensure sustained availability? Sounds like a good place to be …. And a rather different philosophy to other players in the market! 

[McC]

3 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

The prototypes selected to date may cause you problems! Can you make enough to ensure sustained availability? Sounds like a good place to be …. And a rather different philosophy to other players in the market! 

 

We certainly think a 30,31,37,55,92, Manor, and , ahem, more, as well as Mark 1,2,5 are models that will see repeats every 18,24,36 months.

[foggyjames]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Absolutely, there will be future runs. We've been getting such questions a lot lately on the sell out of our Deltics. I think there is a perception that as we are a "new kid on the block" we wont do reruns etc (and I know you're not suggesting that, it's just a general mindset).

 

Thanks Fran - good to know.

 

Frankly (and I'm not expecting a comment on this) I think it's utter madness that some brands limit availability (and in many cases enough time has passed that it can't simply be supply issues - it's either intentional, or incompetent). Demand for blue/grey/yellow-livery HSTs from a certain firm in Margate, for example, clearly wildly out-strips demand, looking at the used prices.

 

cheers

 

James

[Miss Prism]

39 minutes ago, foggyjames said:

(and I'm not expecting a comment on this)

 

Appreciated, but you know what RMweb is like, and there are ample Hornby threads to explore that area. Let's try to keep this one to nice Manors.

 

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Think they are okay over all. Its still the first video and try as Fran has mentioned. Personally, I dont think the 'bark' from a manor is there much at all. Perhaps that could be due to the driving on the video or perhaps due to using a dynamic break system. 
 

The exhaust sounded to me just like a 'Manor' not being wound back but it's an awful long time since I was behind one in everyday service climbing to Talerddig summit,  

 

The only thing about the exhaust sound was the lack of winding back the reverser but that would need some very clever sound system controls which would not be easy to incorporate although it think has been done in Gauge 1 by a German company - witha very large price ticket.

[BroadLeaves]

1 hour ago, foggyjames said:

Demand for blue/grey/yellow-livery HSTs from a certain firm in Margate, for example, clearly wildly out-strips demand, looking at the used prices.

It's not always easy to predict sales volume at the time you are commissioning the model and allocating production slots though.

If you know of a foolproof way to know, six months in advance of release, how many of a certain model will sell, I'm sure Hornby would love to hear from you. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by BroadLeaves

[reddragon]

55 minutes ago, BroadLeaves said:

It's not always easy to predict sales volume at the time you are commissioning the model and allocating production slots though.

If you know of a foolproof way to know, six months in advance of release, how many of a certain model will sell, I'm sure Hornby would love to hear from you. 

Accurascale openly chat with their customers, Hornby do not!

[McC]

1 hour ago, BroadLeaves said:

It's not always easy to predict sales volume at the time you are commissioning the model and allocating production slots though.

If you know of a foolproof way to know, six months in advance of release, how many of a certain model will sell, I'm sure Hornby would love to hear from you. 

its not foolproof but our method is to launch with an EP sample in hand. Take preorders and encourage our retailers to do the same.
When decorated samples are in give retailers a couple of weeks to firm up their guaranteed preorders with us. 
Use those retailer preorders plus direct preorders to understand demand and put that x 1.4 into a production run. 
6 months later or less, deliver 100% of all preorders and full trade allocations and hopefully have a little stock in hand for those that missed out or want to buy when in stock. 
it’s literally not rocket science. 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

47 minutes ago, McC said:

rocket science. 

Thats Elons job.............