Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Ian Hargrave]

But how many times have we heard the same song or variations on a theme over the last 15-20 years and  the culture never changes. Our expression of righteous indignation is worthy……but it won’t alter a damned thing.

[zr2498]

5 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Link  - 

 

I feel sorry for the guy, who tried really hard to get it working.

I'm not prepared to subject myself to this frustration. And, just how long before failure of the connection even if it initially works? Two pre-orders to cancel.

 

Dug out the Brassmasters detailing kits to see what enhancements can be made to the Hornby Black 5s I already have. They are the more detailed versions, but I am sure will be even better with some add ons.

I have fitted sound to them (1 with DCC socket in the tender, and 2 with the DCC sockets in the locos). Big speaker, stay alive, firebox flicker and Locoman sounds 👍

 

 

One order was for the Caprotti. I'll have to build the DJH kit instead.

Money saved 🙂 Sanity preserved.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

32 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

I feel sorry for the guy, who tried really hard to get it working.

I'm not prepared to subject myself to this frustration. And, just how long before failure of the connection even if it initially works? Two pre-orders to cancel.

 

Dug out the Brassmasters detailing kits to see what enhancements can be made to the Hornby Black 5s I already have. They are the more detailed versions, but I am sure will be even better with some add ons.

I have fitted sound to them (1 with DCC socket in the tender, and 2 with the DCC sockets in the locos). Big speaker, stay alive, firebox flicker and Locoman sounds 👍

 

 

One order was for the Caprotti. I'll have to build the DJH kit instead.

Money saved 🙂 Sanity preserved.

 

In my case it’s decision pending. I have not the eyesight or dexterity to initiate surgery required to cosmetically improve the forthcoming Caprotti. It is for now the only game in town and at least the body + tender viewed separately look good. Black tack takes care of the searchlights…..

Edited May 14 by Ian Hargrave
Spelling

[Ian Hargrave]

A question now arises as to how they can produce a little beauty in the 78XXX ….yes I do think it is,despite accusations of bling pipe work…..and proceed to make a sow’s ear out of the “Ultimate “ Black 5. ? 

[spamcan61]

8 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

A question now arises as to how they can produce a little beauty in the 78XXX ….yes I do think it is,despite accusations of bling pipe work…..and proceed to make a sow’s ear out of the “Ultimate “ Black 5. ? 

Different factory, different design team, different budget, different timescale- some possibilities.

Edited May 14 by spamcan61

[gwrrob]

5 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Different factory, different design team, different budget, different timescale- 

 

Same old, same old customer disappointment and bewilderment.

[adb968008]

My impression the Black 5 feels more like sonic’s A5, the 9f and 78xxx felt more like old school Sanda-Kan.

 

Edited May 14 by adb968008

[Legend]

58 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

A question now arises as to how they can produce a little beauty in the 78XXX ….yes I do think it is,despite accusations of bling pipe work…..and proceed to make a sow’s ear out of the “Ultimate “ Black 5. ? 

 

Different factories ? 

[Wheatley]

5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

A question now arises as to how they can produce a little beauty in the 78XXX ….yes I do think it is,despite accusations of bling pipe work…..and proceed to make a sow’s ear out of the “Ultimate “ Black 5. ? 

 

Agreed, the 2MT is indeed a beauty and the bling is not a fundamental flaw, just indicative of a lack of weathering and easily fixed with a brush. I'd weather it anyway so a bit of black touching in is not correcting an error in my book. 

 

5 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

Same old, same old customer disappointment and bewilderment.

 

Don't recall any disappointment on the 2MT thread apart from possibly one which shed a screw ? 

 

I'm torn on this one, the tender chasm is a non-starter for me but I'm DC so two wires and a spare Satan's Drawbar will fix that. The dilemma is whether I want to start carving up a £200 loco - half of me doesnt see why I  should have to, the other half recognises that my pre-Hornby  DJH Black 5 that took me ten years to build probably cost twice that at equivalent prices so the Horby one is a (relatively) cheap fix. 

 

I shall probably wait to see what Rails/Kernow/TMC end up with wedged up their backsides with the doors open at bargain(ish) prices. 

Edited May 15 by Wheatley

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

In my case it’s decision pending. I have not the eyesight or dexterity to initiate surgery required to cosmetically improve the forthcoming Caprotti. It is for now the only game in town and at least the body + tender viewed separately look good. Black tack takes care of the searchlights…..

I want a Caprotti Five enough to fix mine when it arrives. Otherwise I'd have cancelled my pre-order as I did the rest. 

 

Neither will I pre-order any future Hornby product on reputation because that, for me, is something awaiting restoration.

 

For me, a customer of Hornby since before they became Hornby, who has put many thousands of pounds their way over the decades, I am sad to say that I have largely ceased to care what fate awaits them.

 

There's enough other brands now producing equal or better product at similar or lower prices, that Hornby has, in recent years made itself increasingly expendable.  

 

John

[JohnR]

14 hours ago, Legend said:

 

And yet you can't get Blue Grey mk3s anywhere . I really don't think Hornby get the blue/grey to modern scene at all . I thought that was down to SK but there is still evidence of it with things like blue 08s sold out in TT120 and no reissue so far . 

 

Bear in mind many of the decisions made 12 months ago are still to happen. IF (and I dont know) SK decided not to produce any blue/grey stuff before he left, those production slots are for things that will arrive in 2024. 

[ColinB]

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I want a Caprotti Five enough to fix mine when it arrives. Otherwise I'd have cancelled my pre-order as I did the rest. 

 

Neither will I pre-order any future Hornby product on reputation because that, for me, is something awaiting restoration.

 

For me, a customer of Hornby since before they became Hornby, who has put many thousands of pounds their way over the decades, I am sad to say that I have largely ceased to care what fate awaits them.

 

There's enough other brands now producing equal or better product at similar or lower prices, that Hornby has, in recent years made itself increasingly expendable.  

 

John

I suppose the only thing you can say is that Hornby provides a datum for other companies, something to aim at and improve. When they do make a good model it is good, locos like the 9F, but even then their quality lets them down, as in the case of the one Sam got. The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones.

[Black 5 Bear]

10 minutes ago, ColinB said:

I suppose the only thing you can say is that Hornby provides a datum for other companies, something to aim at and improve. When they do make a good model it is good, locos like the 9F, but even then their quality lets them down, as in the case of the one Sam got. The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones.

"The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones".

 

Absolutely!

A good example of this is the Airsmooth Merchant Navy and the early 2000 era Airsmooth Battle of Britain and West Country Class....

[Ian Hargrave]

13 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Different factories ? 

And apparently the factory dictated that the lamps should be glued in place to ensure security during transit 

[MikeParkin65]

3 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And apparently the factory dictated that the lamps should be glued in place to ensure security during transit 

Just poor strategy on Hornby's part. Lamps are a good idea on the wrong model. Could have reinvigorated Tornado sales with these and the coupling and left the Black Five to be what it was clearly intended to be in the first place - the 'ultimate Black Five'. Somewhere though Hornby stopped watching the ball and let the underdeveloped lights be glue, the awful molding marks on the front frames and the unreliable electrical coupling through to production. And to cap it all build quality seems 'mixed' so far. 

 

Its going to be a while coming but I hope for a corrected 'modelers' release of this model with the compromises removed. Or another manufacturer does their own version with a diecast boiler which I think would now take the Black Five market form Hornby full stop.

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Different factory, different design team, different budget, different timescale- some possibilities.

And, I am sorry to repeat, a different approach to marketing which has overdone things in a ridiculous manner.  What it needs now are the Hornby Brand Manager and the designer to get a grip on this model and make it into what it really ought to be.  The (most recent) old regime at Hornby has gone so they now have a chance to get down to common sense marketing, the end of willy waving, and get this model sorted.

[MikeParkin65]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And, I am sorry to repeat, a different approach to marketing which has overdone things in a ridiculous manner.  What it needs now are the Hornby Brand Manager and the designer to get a grip on this model and make it into what it really ought to be.  The (most recent) old regime at Hornby has gone so they now have a chance to get down to common sense marketing, the end of willy waving, and get this model sorted.

A properly done Black Five will sell in big numbers indefinitely. Doing a preserved example a year gives them 18 releases for starters and captures the elusive (to Hornby) modern image market  straight away. Then keep a steady supply of in service versions with obvious physical differences as a staple in the catalogue. Honestly can't think of another steam prototype with so many possibilities and so much potential.

 

If only Accurascale hadnt done the Manor .......

[Downer]

I would have thought a large part of the Caprotti loco’s appeal is its strikingly unusual head-on appearance, but I haven’t yet seen a single publicity shot taken from that angle. 

[E100]

I think the issue with this tender connection is it doesn't look terrible easy to bypass based on my A4/P2 experience. If I could easily permanently couple it using a JST as a bypass it wouldn't be quite so bad. Mechanically it's fine if too far apart.

[IOW O2]

13 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

............. I am sad to say that I have largely ceased to care what fate awaits them.

 

There's enough other brands now producing equal or better product at similar or lower prices, that Hornby has, in recent years made itself increasingly expendable.

Same here, there becomes a point where nostalgia and loyalty for a brand to keep them going becomes to much hassle.  I have 4 Hornby left and only 1 bought in last 5 years is still going, all the rest were disposed of as spares.

[Ian Hargrave]

11 minutes ago, IOW O2 said:

Same here, there becomes a point where nostalgia and loyalty for a brand to keep them going becomes to much hassle.  I have 4 Hornby left and only 1 bought in last 5 years is still going, all the rest were disposed of as spares.

And yet over the last couple of years since lockdown,until this unfortunate situation,Hornby have steadily produced some much improved models and appear still to be doing so with the forthcoming LNER Streamliner coaches,so it’s unfair to write them off on the basis of this turkey.

[PeterStiles]

4 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones".

 

Absolutely!

A good example of this is the Airsmooth Merchant Navy and the early 2000 era Airsmooth Battle of Britain and West Country Class....

Newer model, designed to be cheaper to build/produce, I heard somewhere, probably on a different thread on this site...

[IOW O2]

22 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And yet over the last couple of years since lockdown,until this unfortunate situation,Hornby have steadily produced some much improved models and appear still to be doing so with the forthcoming LNER Streamliner coaches,so it’s unfair to write them off on the basis of this turkey.

I'm not writing them off on this model alone, just all the other duffers I've wasted money on since 2019, three of my 4 were bought prior to this.  My view is a personal one based on experience.

 

The 2MT does not fit for me nor the 9F and I thought perhaps they had turned a corner with these models.

Edited May 15 by IOW O2
spelling

[zr2498]

I have just written to Hornby Marketing. It essentially summarises most of the feelings about the new tooling as expressed on this thread.

 

My final para's was an idea which may or may not be taken on board.

[MikeParkin65]

5 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

I have just written to Hornby Marketing. It essentially summarises most of the feelings about the new tooling as expressed on this thread.

 

My final para's was an idea which may or may not be taken on board.

Shouldnt require much new tooling, just factory fitted plugs for the removed front and rear lighting, mounts for the drawbar and a jst type connector. And sort the tool out for the front frame pieces.