Halvarras Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 hours ago, 69843 said: Jeez. There really is an ever-shrinking list of models to be done! How many prototype diesels (1948-1968) are left now? Since something as obscure as DHP1 has been claimed 10800 was only a matter of time - IMHO the Swindon-built D8xx Warship (Class 42) particularly including disc headcode version has now become a glaring omission, although these 38 locomotives encompass far more detail variations than the largely standard 33 NBL Class 43s which varied only in liveries. And the odd roof fan grille. Oh, and the Barclay Class 06 - why the manufacturer with Classes 17, 26 & 27 in its portfolio elected to do the YEC Class 02 and not this one still completely baffles me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2022 It would make more sense if 1082 was Brunswick green with the early crest, 1083 Sherwood green with the late crest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Downer said: It would make more sense if 1082 was Brunswick green with the early crest, 1083 Sherwood green with the late crest. I think it would and it would make an attractive model. However, there might be significant differences which would make it impractical. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2022 Interested, but will have wait and see how it actually turns out. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multivac Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Another eye watering price! I thought it was 0 scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2022 Dam 7 hours... I lost the sweepstake again... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Downer said: It would make more sense if 1082 was Brunswick green with the early crest, 1083 Sherwood green with the late crest. The rebuilt 10800 was very significantly different from the original - much new body panelling to different profiles. Copyright unknown. It would require extensive alternative tool slides - or even a complete body retool. John Isherwood. Edited February 24, 2022 by cctransuk 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Like others I'd never even heard of this loco until this morning, but I found some nice pics on Flickr. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2022 9 hours ago, 69843 said: Jeez. There really is an ever-shrinking list of models to be done! How many prototype diesels (1948-1968) are left now? D0226 and it still exists. and 89001… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2022 57 minutes ago, montyburns56 said: Like others I'd never even heard of this loco until this morning, but I found some nice pics on Flickr. It's a bit of a shame, as I have confirmed with Heljan, that we will not be getting an option for 10800 in as built condition without the lower bonnet grills as per the top picture above which is how she spent most of her time on the SR up to June 1953. After which she spend time in Brighton works and gained the additional grills. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) Interesting that this loco has gone down in enthusiast history as an unmitigated failure, when in fact it was the direct progenitor of what became classes 15 and 16. Now, they weren’t a fabulous success themselves in the long run, but they very clearly make the point that this loco was not seen as a failure at the time, in fact it was seen as largely successful, and worth turning into series builds. The fatal flaw, though, was an engine that was way too complicated for the power and duty in comparison with the English Electric alternative, compounded in the case of the Class 16 by North British really struggling to transfer from steam to diesel, especially diesel-electric technology. It was an historically very important loco, up there with 10000 and 10001. Just a pity from my personal perspective that this model is in the wrong scale and format, cos If it was in the right scale and format I’d be ordering one, rather than trying to tell everyone else to do so. Edited February 24, 2022 by Nearholmer 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 57 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said: It's a bit of a shame, as I have confirmed with Heljan, that we will not be getting an option for 10800 in as built condition without the lower bonnet grills as per the top picture above which is how she spent most of her time on the SR up to June 1953. After which she spend time in Brighton works and gained the additional grills. For the BR(SR) period, 10800 was in black. Removing the lower grilles should be an easy task, and a partial repaint in black of the affected areas cannot be too taxing. CJI. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: D0226 and it still exists. and 89001… Don't forget D0227 - which no longer exists, unfortunately. CJI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Don't forget D0227 - which no longer exists, unfortunately. CJI. I supposed non-tops diesel shunters are worth a look afterwards… NBL 0-4-0’s D2767/D2778 are preserved examples and would be nice. But anyway 10800… A worthy subject in its own right. Edited February 24, 2022 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, adb968008 said: But anyway 10800… A worthy subject in its own right. Agreed! What about D2999 - though I've a feeling that there may be a kit around; am I correct? CJI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, cctransuk said: For the BR(SR) period, 10800 was in black. Removing the lower grilles should be an easy task, and a partial repaint in black of the affected areas cannot be too taxing. CJI. i don't dispute that, and it's what I will probably do myself (although we don't know how easy it may or may not be at this stage) , but I was clarifying for others as Heljan state SR/LMR condition, it was still a shame they are not producing the as built as an option. Edited February 24, 2022 by Graham_Muz 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2022 11 hours ago, No Decorum said: Yup. Whoopie! This fills the last gap in the line up of diesel-electric main line prototypes. 10000 &10001. 10800. 10201, 10202, 10203. Deltic (DP1). Falcon. Lion. DP2. Kestrel. What a fascinating lot they were. 10800: probably the least successful of the lot. So hopelessly unreliable that it gained the nickname “The Wonder Locomotive” as in “I wonder if it will appear today.” Ten Class 16s were developed from it and were rather unreliable as well. Kestrel: a magnificent locomotive but at 125 m.p.h. it wrecked the track. Likely that convinced BR engineers that two locomotives would be needed for that power output, hence the HST. (My guesswork there.) Whoopie again! Now for shunters and ’leccies! You missed out the words 'post-war' as nobody has done, or even announced, the 1933 Armstrong-Whitworth 1-Co-1 'Universal' 800hp diesel electric - the first main line diesel loco to run in Britain. Admittedly it had a very short life of trial running but it probably did far more miles hauling trains than DHP1 ever managed even including light engine mileage (not difficult I know) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Nearholmer said: North British really struggling to transfer from steam to diesel, especially diesel-electric technology. I was under the impression that their mastery of diesel-hydraulic tech wasn't exactly stellar, either. Have I misunderstood? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: I was under the impression that their mastery of diesel-hydraulic tech wasn't exactly stellar, either. Have I misunderstood? I don’t think you have. The very first diesel hydraulics produced by North British* had an engine failure on its first run. North British Class 43 Warships† were judged less reliable than the Swindon 42s† and relegated to less important work. It took a lot of work to get the Class 22 Baby Warships‡ into a sort of reliable state. The problems seemed to be more with the engines than the transmissions. To simplify, it was partly because the German engines were designed in metric and NB translated the dimensions to Imperial rather than tool up for metric and partly because of deficiencies in the cooling systems. I seem to detect a little tongue in cheek in your comment because I’m sure you know this better than I do but I thought it might be new to some people here. * Modelled by Kernow. † Modelled by Bachmann. ‡ Modelled by Dapol. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, No Decorum said: I seem to detect a little tongue in cheek in your comment because I’m sure you know this better than I do but I thought it might be new to some people here. There are things I know, and things I think I know. For the latter I am always happy to invite others to correct me! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: There are things I know, and things I think I know. For the latter I am always happy to invite others to correct me! I think that’s true for all the best contributors. 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: You missed out the words 'post-war' as nobody has done, or even announced, the 1933 Armstrong-Whitworth 1-Co-1 'Universal' 800hp diesel electric - the first main line diesel loco to run in Britain. Admittedly it had a very short life of trial running but it probably did far more miles hauling trains than DHP1 ever managed even including light engine mileage (not difficult I know) I would love to see the LMS 3-car articulated set produced one day--an interesting thread here: cheers, Keith 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 19 hours ago, Downer said: It would make more sense if 1082 was Brunswick green with the early crest, 1083 Sherwood green with the late crest. Absolutely agree with this, and knowing Heljan keep an eye on this forum, I am holding off my pre-order in the hope that green/early crest becomes an option. Definitely one for me though to complete the early prototype set. Cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 25, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Oldddudders said: I was under the impression that their mastery of diesel-hydraulic tech wasn't exactly stellar, either. Have I misunderstood? Absolutely correct and I think it is fair to say that they weren't really the masters of any main line diesel class they built for BR. Years ago I found myself in conversation with a naval engineering officer who had been in an NBL works when they were building diesel hydraulics for the WR and he was amazed at the slapdash attitude of what he found to be a demoralised workforce who saw the writing on the wall for their jobs plus little or no control over the quality of materials. Joe Field, a past WR Chief Traction Inspector, had at one time the job of collecting new locos from both NBL and Beyer Peacock (for the Hymeks) and he said the difference between the two was amazing. He'd arrive at the BP works to find thelkoco he was collecting being given a final works test running - singly and in multiple with another, all the paperwork ready to go and so on. Often when he went to NBL on the appointed date he'd be in for a couple of nights in Glasgow because there were various problems being tackled on the loco and on the day it was supposedly ready the paperwork invariably wasn't - utter shambles of a company. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Further images of 10800 undergoing conversion to 'HAWK', and as completed. Copyright BrushVeteran (G.Wareham) Copyright BrushVeteran (G.Wareham) John Isherwood. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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