Bachmann MCC (Model Collect Create) Centre - Hinckley

[Les1952]

On 03/04/2022 at 11:56, Widnes Model Centre said:

As a Bachmann retailer l have no issues whatsoever with them opening this shop. I wish David and his team every success.

 

Make, Model, Create and using the Games Workshop business model is a great idea.

 

What l do suggest, maybe even implore is to live up to the shops name. 

 

The shop  really does need to stock paints, glue, brushes etc. Bachmann already have suitable tools in their range. I understand that they won’t be stocking other recognised brands. However there are suppliers of these products that do not make plastic kits etc.

 

Introducing new modellers is a great idea. If we sold plastic kits and were asked what do l need to make the model?. A question often asked.  Paint, glue, brushes, but we don’t actually sell them, l don’t think we would make that sale. 

 

Phil Parker asked Terry about this and he received a response along the lines of we can get you paint etc. I do hope he doesn’t suggest Woodland Scenic PVA  and Earth tones for a 1/200 Bismarck. Absolutely certain Terry would know what the customer would need.

 

Great idea, love the concept but just needs a tiny bit of tweaking.

 

As long as Bachmann don’t open one in Widnes!

 

Talking to our LOCAL dealers (all within an hours drive of Hinckley) there is a great deal of distrust amongst them- together with Hornby's recent tactics the concensus is that it is seen as a threat to their businesses. 

 

The following point was made by no fewer than three.  What is the difference between Hattons as a shop that is now also a manufacturer and Bachmann as a manufacturer that is now also a shop?

 

From talking to a number of dealers at two East Midlands shows in recent weeks.....  (plus one who didn't attend but who is currently trying to sell up)

 

Les 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Les1952

[1E BoY]

On 02/04/2022 at 20:54, jonnyuk said:

i'm now hoping Bachmann buy a rtr slot car company and start putting them in the shop, slot car shops are even thinner on the ground than model railway shops

 

Bachmann have certainly had a slot car racing system in the past and around 20 years ago they were the distributors of the Spanish SCX range which was owned by Tecni Toys of Barcelona.

 

I have little knowledge of slot car racing but I believe the SCX brand was derived from Scalextric and that the factory was originally set up in the 1960s by Lines Brothers (Tri-ang). It became independent during the break up of the Lines Group in the early 1970s. I believe the company changed hands in 2008 and is still available (according to a quick internet search from some specialist slot car retailers in the UK). 

 

The Ford Focus model below was produced for the London Toy Fair in 2002 and carries Bachmann branding. Bachmann also sponsored a racing sports car for a number of years when it held the SCX  distribution for the UK.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by 1E BoY
Spelling

[jonnyuk]

spotted that car on ebay a while ago whilst trying to find some nice WRC cars.  Yes you are correct about SXC, changed hands a few times and the branding is complicated, slot car news did a good you tube on the history (they make very nice cars as well).

[Littlethorpe]

Called into the shop yesterday & chatted to a member of staff. The model railway side is very low key as the main focus seems to be plastic kits. I hope it proves to be a success.

 

A secondary reason for visiting was that this was my first visit to Hinckley since spending 5 years at school there in the mid 1950s. My old school had been demolished & replaced by a block of flats!

[Legend]

On 05/04/2022 at 23:04, Les1952 said:

 

Talking to our LOCAL dealers (all within an hours drive of Hinckley) there is a great deal of distrust amongst them- together with Hornby's recent tactics the concensus is that it is seen as a threat to their businesses. 

 

The following point was made by no fewer than three.  What is the difference between Hattons as a shop that is now also a manufacturer and Bachmann as a manufacturer that is now also a shop?

 

From talking to a number of dealers at two East Midlands shows in recent weeks.....  (plus one who didn't attend but who is currently trying to sell up)

 

Les 

I think it should be seen as a showcase for Bachmann products or agencies , nothing more than that .  I mean it is just round the corner from Bachmann HQ . I suppose it will provide competition to the local model shops to some extent .

[phil-b259]

On 05/04/2022 at 23:04, Les1952 said:

 

Talking to our LOCAL dealers (all within an hours drive of Hinckley) there is a great deal of distrust amongst them- together with Hornby's recent tactics the concensus is that it is seen as a threat to their businesses. 

 

The following point was made by no fewer than three.  What is the difference between Hattons as a shop that is now also a manufacturer and Bachmann as a manufacturer that is now also a shop?

 

From talking to a number of dealers at two East Midlands shows in recent weeks.....  (plus one who didn't attend but who is currently trying to sell up)

 

Les 

 

IIRC Bachmann have made it very clear that ALL products will retail at full RRP with NO DISCOUNTS!

 

This provides considerable scope for local model shops to compete on price as well as the ability to stock the full model railway range as opposed to just the small selection which the Bachmann venture will be showcasing.

 

So while I can understand local shops worries, a study of recent history will easily prove that Bachmann are nothing like  Hornby when it comes to their dealings with the shops they supply and this latest venture by Bachmann is not a threat..

[Les1952]

15 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

IIRC Bachmann have made it very clear that ALL products will retail at full RRP with NO DISCOUNTS!

 

This provides considerable scope for local model shops to compete on price as well as the ability to stock the full model railway range as opposed to just the small selection which the Bachmann venture will be showcasing.

 

So while I can understand local shops worries, a study of recent history will easily prove that Bachmann are nothing like  Hornby when it comes to their dealings with the shops they supply and this latest venture by Bachmann is not a threat..

 

They are going to have to work very hard to convince the model shops in their area judging by the comments made not just to me but to anyone who asked.....

 

Les

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

They are going to have to work very hard to convince the model shops in their area judging by the comments made not just to me but to anyone who asked.....

 

Les

 

 

 

 

But ask yourself how many of those comments are rooted in the pretty appalling treatment Hornby have handed out to their retailers and have NOTHING to do with Bachmann per say?

 

The only recent example of major angst with regards to Bachmann and their retailers is basically the spat with Hattons a few years ago.

 

Bachmann:-

 

• Do NOT retail via their own website
• Do NOT sell via Amazon
• Are NOT charging anything less than full RRP in the MMC
• Are not carrying anything like the full range in the MMC

 

This is very different from Hornby - who by contrast could be said to have poisoned the well with their actions over the past few years.

 

As such, while I appreciate local retailers may be concerned, a sensible factual analysis of the situation would show they do not have anything significant to fear from the MMC venture and this is the message which Bachmann have been at pains to point out.

 

Should things change and the MMC start discounting Bachmann products for example then quite clearly that would change things - but equally we should give Bachmann a chance to prove that some model railway manufacturers do have principles - rather than automatically assuming the worst.

 

 

[Les1952]

2 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

But ask yourself how many of those comments are rooted in the pretty appalling treatment Hornby have handed out to their retailers and have NOTHING to do with Bachmann per say?

 

The only recent example of major angst with regards to Bachmann and their retailers is basically the spat with Hattons a few years ago.

 

Bachmann:-

 

• Do NOT retail via their own website
• Do NOT sell via Amazon
• Are NOT charging anything less than full RRP in the MMC
• Are not carrying anything like the full range in the MMC

 

This is very different from Hornby - who by contrast could be said to have poisoned the well with their actions over the past few years.

 

As such, while I appreciate local retailers may be concerned, a sensible factual analysis of the situation would show they do not have anything significant to fear from the MMC venture and this is the message which Bachmann have been at pains to point out.

 

Should things change and the MMC start discounting Bachmann products for example then quite clearly that would change things - but equally we should give Bachmann a chance to prove that some model railway manufacturers do have principles - rather than automatically assuming the worst.

 

 

 

These points have not been put across very well to the local dealers.  If put across at all they haven't done it convincingly.

 

Les

Edited April 9, 2022 by Les1952

[Mike Bellamy]

8 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

As such, while I appreciate local retailers may be concerned, a sensible factual analysis of the situation would show they do not have anything significant to fear from the MMC venture and this is the message which Bachmann have been at pains to point out.

 

Should things change and the MMC start discounting Bachmann products for example then quite clearly that would change things - but equally we should give Bachmann a chance to prove that some model railway manufacturers do have principles - rather than automatically assuming the worst.

 

 

As stated previously, this is following the Games Workshop idea - they have their own shops all over the country selling at RRP but there are also a number of independent shops often in the same towns who are selling their products but are also free to stock similar items from other manufacturers. Having spent many hours with my son at Games Workshop, I know how busy they are - and how profitable !!
 

 

Quote

 

Games Workshop is pleased to confirm that trading since the last update in September 2021 is in line with expectations. The Board’s estimate of the results for the six months to 28 November 2021, at actual exchange rates, is sales of not less than £190 million (2020: £186.8 million) and profit before tax of not less than £86 million (2020: £91.6 million).

 

 

[iL Dottore]

Interesting thread, this.

 

I had to look up Hinckley on t'interweb, (sadly, I'm unlikely to visit the town, even if I do manage to get to Brum for this year's Warley Show) and I find the concept of a shop dedicated to the promotion of all things modelling more than appealing. Unfortunately, even in Switzerland (where modelling isn't perceived to be quite so "niche" as in the UK), we are seeing a decrease of bricks and mortar modelling shops. so any effort to move things in the opposite direction is welcome, no matter where this may be.

 

As some have said, the presence of high end items from a manufacturer reassures about the quality of the lower cost items from the same manufacturer (when I was a wee lad in 1960s Britain, I may have not been able to afford the more expensive boxed Airfix kits [such as the series 3 models] , but I was more than happy with the quality of my Series 1 Spitfire or Hurricane - but they were still Airfix models!!! - and aimed to save up for the bigger and more expensive models [or ask for them as a birthday or Christmas gift]).

 

What annoys me is the very US/UK obsession with price  - at any cost. Yes, things can be expensive (but for expensive hobbies try playing a guitar - you can easily blow £500 or so during a single visit to a guitar shop [or try sailing or equestrianism or any one of a number of other hobbies]), but whatever happened to the notion of saving up for something or to the idea that good quality costs money. If you are in agreement with the idea that good quality materials should be used, the people involved in all aspects of design, production and sales should earn a living wage, then a decent quality item may be inexpensive but it won't be "cheap"

 

I make the distinction between "inexpensive" and "cheap" - "inexpensive" means good quality, good design, well executed, using quality materials and with built in durability at an advantageous price; "cheap" means poor design, poor execution of that design, poor quality of materials and poor reliability. I've seen some very costly (as in ££££) "designer" items that are definitely very "cheap" - whilst I have bought some costly items that have turned out to be inexpensive "great buys" (the Artemide Tizio lamps I have at home being a great example: they cost [currently] about £216 each, I bought mine back in 1993 and have only had to replace the halogen bulbs - and even then only every 4 or 5 years or so).

 

I am continually impressed as to how the quality and refinement of (most) RTR locomotives and rolling stock continues to improve on a yearly basis and if I have to spend £250 (or whatever it happens to be) on a particular locomotive I want, I'll budget for it - saving up or trimming my leisure expenditure elsewhere as appropriate.  Yes, I'd love for the forthcoming Bachmann GWR 64XX Pannier Tank 6414 in GWR Green to be £50 instead of £139.95 (I could then buy three!) but I'm realistic about what it costs to create a modern state-of-the-art RTR loco.

Edited April 26, 2022 by iL Dottore

[adb968008]

On 26/04/2022 at 15:24, iL Dottore said:

 

What annoys me is the very US/UK obsession with price  - at any cost.

I really dont think its a UK/US thing. In my experience I find the hardest bargainers are in SE Asia by a long shot, followed by Mid East, and the Africa/Eastern Europe in 3rd. (Budget too fits in that order).
US I find is more likely than anywhere, to accept the cost of doing business, and have more lucrative margins for it. The UK tries to compete with this, but falls into areas thrice of “make do and mend solutions” (a natural reflection of creativity) or acceptance, or seeking of discounts. Ultimately much of UK business operates on smaller margins or higher barriers (tarifs, taxes etc) than the US. This gives less room to move, and hence price discussions creep in.

I will say though decision making, and volume is faster and more efficient in the UK than Europe, by factor of 6x. I’m in IT of course other experiences may vary.

 

On 26/04/2022 at 15:24, iL Dottore said:

 

I make the distinction between "inexpensive" and "cheap" - "inexpensive" means good quality, good design, well executed, using quality materials and with built in durability at an advantageous price; "cheap" means poor design, poor execution of that design, poor quality of materials and poor reliability.
 

 

its probably better to think of it in terms of value. Value is a measure of how useful it is and ease of use. Many cheap and inexpensive things have high usage and easy to use… a pen and notebook for instance… much more cost efficient than an ipad for making notes..

 

 

On 26/04/2022 at 15:24, iL Dottore said:

 

I am continually impressed as to how the quality and refinement of (most) RTR locomotives and rolling stock continues to improve on a yearly basis and if I have to spend £250 (or whatever it happens to be) on a particular locomotive I want, I'll budget for it - saving up or trimming my leisure expenditure elsewhere as appropriate.  Yes, I'd love for the forthcoming Bachmann GWR 64XX Pannier Tank 6414 in GWR Green to be £50 instead of £139.95 (I could then buy three!) but I'm realistic about what it costs to create a modern state-of-the-art RTR loco.

This is a personal perception of value. Its nothing to do with cost, or quality (cheapness or expensiveness). If you look at it, and you don't like it.. the value is £0, if you don't actually buy it.

Similarly if you buy it at any cost, as we have seen with oversubscribed items, like Rocket, Dublo you end up paying above rrp, as your value is higher, irrespective of the quality of the build materials.

 

what were seeing in the market isn't price obsession, its over supply of products.

 

People are attaching comparative value to items, as they are needing to choose one over another, and in turn are prioritising and thus attaching higher / lower levels of value to each in turn… they might not value a discounted £160 for a loco, but they might pay £160, higher than its rrp, for a coach instead. They might value a £2000 holiday greater than 10x£200 locos.  It doesn't matter if last year they were £160 locos, because the £2000 holiday wasn’t possible due to covid… of course nothing stops one moaning about price, even if the reality of 10x£160 locos was still lower value and lower cost than a £2000 holiday even if it was an option.

 

We are seeing similar stimulating factors in Oil, Energy and food currently too…

 

I personally don’t care for the price of sunflower oil, so its value to me is £0, irrespective the rising “headline news” price tag.. I don't care* (*indirect purchases excepted), however olive oil.. thats a different story.. and ive bought a bit extra now as I sense incoming pain as a result of sunflower oil down the road and its value to me is higher…

 

 

[iL Dottore]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I really dont think its a UK/US thing. In my experience I find the hardest bargainers are in SE Asia by a long shot, followed by Mid East, and the Africa/Eastern Europe in 3rd.

I’m not sure that I’d completely agree here - bargaining (aka “haggling”) is part of the culture and well understood aspect of the merchant-customer dynamic. Any merchant in those countries who gets first the asking price from a visitor from the UK/US must think he’s got a right gullible mug on his hands.

 

I take your point about value, but I’d still differentiate between “cheap” and “inexpensive”. For me “cheap” associates with low quality, whereas “inexpensive” associates with low cost. To use your example: a pencil and pad are an inexpensive way of making notes. But a cheap pencil will never sharpen properly and the lead breaks too easily.

[The Stationmaster]

Judging by what we all too often see on RMweb - and in many shops and even restaurants - there is amajor obsession with price in Britain.  

 

Some sections of the population always had a reputation for being 'careful with their money' - not in fact an obsession with price but more about making best use of their money and not wasting it on things they didn't need.   But that is largely the past although quite a lot of people are still that way inclined but there is a huge section who just want things cheap, i.e. they want to pay less for something.

 

I don't think tiers have made much difference there although other things have eliminated deep discounting on newly issued models and that has also no doubt upset some because they regarded the deeply discounted prices as the 'real prices' of things - which they clearly were not.  The big problem seems to me to be resistance in some to accepting realistic prices but, again, tiers won't have much effect there.

[Legend]

I dont think there is an obsession with price in Britain (except maybe in the BBC) but there is an obsession with value . 

 

 

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I’m not sure that I’d completely agree here - bargaining (aka “haggling”) is part of the culture and well understood aspect of the merchant-customer dynamic. Any merchant in those countries who gets first the asking price from a visitor from the UK/US must think he’s got a right gullible mug on his hands.

your looking at it from a SE Asia buyers angle, i’m looking at it from a western european sellers angle.

 

but agree, in SE asia no one take first offer, and both sides price in the negotiation factor at very wide margins, much wider than the west. Indeed an excess of horse trading over amounts of much lower quantity can take place, and getting to the point can take a while. From a western perspective, often viewed  as not worth the effort. This applies to much of Europe too where some markets can be much lower volumes and longer sales cycles than in the US or UK which are geared to faster turnaround.

 

organisations often choose between chasing those markets in dedicated teams, or focussing away from them.

 

More than price I find US/UK is concerned more about efficiency and speed and are more tolerant (doesn't stop a moan, but doesn't block the sale either), towards issues and faults.

I find Europeans rely more on the contract to be met, and take a more sedate path getting there, but pay a higher price for it.

 

As an example how many posts on here do we see about delays, and acceptance (but moan) of faults/issues to self correct … yet on European models delivery tends to be longer, but more accurate and minus the faults…but at a much higher cost.

 

Maybe more value in the UK/US is in having it now, where as more value in Europe is having it as expected ? 

 

5 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 

I take your point about value, but I’d still differentiate between “cheap” and “inexpensive”. For me “cheap” associates with low quality, whereas “inexpensive” associates with low cost. To use your example: a pencil and pad are an inexpensive way of making notes. But a cheap pencil will never sharpen properly and the lead breaks too easily.

value is defined as utility and warranty.

Translated as fit for purpose and fit for use.

 

A pencil you can write with is usable. If the pencil is bulky, heavy and odd shaped it may not be fit for purpose, even if you can use it as a pencil.

A broken pencil isnt a sign of cheapness, its a sign of not being fit for use, even if its lightweight and shaped for its purpose.

 

if the pencil was made out of gold and studded with diamonds, but still have broken lead its not cheap, it just doesnt work… thats not fit for use, even if its fit for its glamorous purpose.

 

Cheapness implies it doesnt cost much.

Quality and cheap is mis-noma.

Value is usually a trade off between Time, Quality, Cost, Risk and Benefit… you drag the line from one of those aspects, it immediately affects the others…

 

Increase time, may increase cost, increase quality, but if it arrives late and you dont need it, youve increased risk and lowered its benefit to you… and hence your same perception of “cheapness” is met in a different way via very different outcome… but its still no longer fit for use or fit for purpose and therefore has lowered value…

Hornby imo has evolved a strategy of duplicating competitors by being first, even if the product isnt neccessarily as feature accurate. They are sensing that Time is more important than Quality, and being later is a risk to sales as being later has lower customer benefits.

(Notice there how Cost isnt a factor.. Terriers, 66’s, generic coaches cost less but still deliver value, just as much as the Prarie, mk3’s, 56’s which costs more).

 

Piko imo has evolved a strategy of duplicating competitors by quality and cost, as they are the later comer, but trading that against time and benefits of a newer tooling. Here “risk” isnt a factor, they've accepted being later and existing duplication into their decision making.

Both make locos of similar price ranges so “inexpensive” or “cheap” isnt relevent.. a £160 Hornby 87 falling apart is no difference in price to a £160 ET22 which doesnt, its a matter of Quality, and its value to you.

 

on that note, this discussion is going off topic and maybe lowering its value to others…

Edited April 28, 2022 by adb968008

[Matt C]

I applaud Bachmann for the initiative. I think anything that encourages young people to have a go can only be good for the Hobby in general ! I find it sad that there are a few making negative comments about the High prices of the more expensive Railway  items rather than looking at what appears to be a wide and varied range of products aimed at bringing in and encouraging new customers into the model making  community ?

 I wonder if this could be expanded out into some 'Pop up' Shops ?  Approach the council with a view to take over an empty unit in a struggling high street for a Month. Move in with a mobile 'shop'. Run workshops etc as per the one in Hinckley maybe inviting Any Model Shops from surrounding areas to send a 'Volunteer' for a week to help out/ promote thier own permanent local business. This would also have the benefit of showing that local business the Full range of products available from Bachmann and show what is popular in THAT particular area which might encourage the local shop to widen thier own ranges ( possibly filling some space left by missing Hornby product?)

 

Most local businesses just don't have the space/ resources to do anything like this so 

 

Surely a win/ win for Bachmann and the local supplier ? 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Matt C
Typos ( I'm sure theres more :)

[Michael Hodgson]

17 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Some sections of the population always had a reputation for being 'careful with their money' - not in fact an obsession with price but more about making best use of their money and not wasting it on things they didn't need.   But that is largely the past although quite a lot of people are still that way inclined but there is a huge section who just want things cheap, i.e. they want to pay less for something.

Aye, 'appen.

 

Tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman but tha can't tell im much

Ear all, see all, say nowt

Eat all, sup all, pay nowt

And if that ever does owt for nowt

Allus do it fer thysel.

 

[adb968008]

17 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Aye, 'appen.

 

Tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman but tha can't tell im much

Ear all, see all, say nowt

Eat all, sup all, pay nowt

And if that ever does owt for nowt

Allus do it fer thysel.

 

The Americans like to say that Britain talks so much about other peoples money, but never seem to be able to find its own pocket.

 

 

[gwrrob]

39 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The Americans like to say that Britain talks so much about other peoples money, but never seem to be able to find its own pocket.

 

 

 

How come our foreign aid budget is so high then.

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

How come our foreign aid budget is so high then.

Not as high as Americas.

[gwrrob]

I visited this store for a nosey today and it deserves to do well with what it intends to do. A vast array of model kits was present that I didn't know they supplied although nothing to really tempt me. As others have said they stock the whole range of Woodland Scenics and a lad was having a tutorial in using the products in the range. I was hoping for a larger choice in paint products although they did have the Ammo acrylic range.

[jjb1970]

Haggling isn't as normal in SE Asia as it was. It depends where you go but the vast majority of businesses in Singapore have an advertised price which is what you pay, with Malaysia and Indonesia rapidly following. 

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/04/2022 at 20:58, adb968008 said:

Not as high as Americas.

It depends which measure you look at.  Using the 2015 figures (the first I found) In cash terms the USA was the biggest followed by Germany followed by the UK.  But when measured as a percentage of GDP Germany came 11th, the USA didn't even get into the top ten, and the UK was in 7th place.

[TomScrut]

On 26/04/2022 at 15:24, iL Dottore said:

What annoys me is the very US/UK obsession with price  - at any cost.

 

If that was the case, we'd all be buying railroad stuff.

 

It seems obvious to me that in this hobby people will pay good money for good items. It is just that we also don't like stuff getting more expensive, which I don't think is unreasonable.