Hornby cuts model shops' allocations of items due summer 2022

[Dunsignalling]

Treat "Eras" with caution, as they can be misleading. They only really indicate when things were introduced. Disappearances  usually occurred over rather more protracted timescales, extending well into the next "Era". Go by the years, and preferably a reliably dated photo of your chosen loco - prototype and/or model!

 

The late BR crest was first applied in 1956, so that description is correct. However, the new markings were only applied when locos were overhauled. Some retained the early emblem beyond 1960 and a fair number never got the newer one before scrapping. Obviously, working steam disappeared in 1968, but many green diesels still had the BR "late" crest well into the 1970s. 

 

"Era 4" (1948-1955, allegedly) is even more problematic as it covers the introduction of both "BRITISH RAILWAYS" lettering (introduced during 1948), a short period before that when no lettering was applied, and the early "Ferret & Dartboard" emblem which came into general use during 1949 and also got added fairly quickly to unlettered locos that had not long been repainted.

 

Also, of course, many  locos continued to carry pre-nationalisation insignia at least until their first BR overhaul in the early half of the 1950s, though most got renumbered rather sooner. Lots of surviving "antiques" were scrapped between 1948 and 1951-ish with their old numbers still extant, though many will have been idle for some time. A few locos (mainly shunting tanks) that didn't do high mileages might have gone straight from LMS (etc) markings to BR late crest having gone longer than usual between overhauls!   

 

John

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[SHMD]

As Hornby are keeping the good stuff for themselves, by reducing Retailers Pre-Orders, how about the Retailers giving Hornby some of their own medicine?

 

Let the Retailers Pre-Order loads of an item (that they think will be "hard to shift" and in concert with other shops), then just as it hits these shores, everyone cancels their Pre-Orders leaving Hornby out of pocket by broken promises.

 

 

Kev.

(No this isn't a serious suggestion but "what's good for the goose should also be good for the gander"!)

 

[mdvle]

8 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 Or they need to put into place a process that allows them to get a rapid gripe on the numbers required (Rapido has an order deadline for example, which they probably use to tweek the final figures produced).

 

Rapido has been more open about it (for their North American operation) where it has been stated multiple times that the purchase order to the factory for the product goes in about 2 weeks after the order deadline (allows time for the dealer orders to get in and be processed and at a guess a company discussion on how much inventory to carry as Rapido has over the last couple of years to order some extra stock).

 

Others in the US (Atlas, Athearn) appear to operate the same way.

 

[Ouroborus]

9 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Your wonderful observation about dealers collecting orders, driving people to Hornby only for dealers not being able to fulfill them and customers having to buy direct.... is of course totally unfair to the dealers whom have used their time and resources to promote them. 

 

I think you've misunderstood my comments or misquoted them. 

 

I certainly don't think the dealers drive people to Hornby.  It's only when the dealers fail to get their orders satisfied by Hornby that customers have to go Hornby if they still want it.    

 

I never shop with Hornby.com for this reason and if Derails get stung again with some of the items I have on preorder with them, I'd rather go without.

[Bilbo]

2 hours ago, SHMD said:

As Hornby are keeping the good stuff for themselves, by reducing Retailers Pre-Orders, how about the Retailers giving Hornby some of their own medicine?

 

Let the Retailers Pre-Order loads of an item (that they think will be "hard to shift" and in concert with other shops), then just as it hits these shores, everyone cancels their Pre-Orders leaving Hornby out of pocket by broken promises.

 

 

Kev.

(No this isn't a serious suggestion but "what's good for the goose should also be good for the gander"!)

 

 Mind Reader are you. I've been thinking that as well, and I agree it can't be a serious suggestion - can it ?

[SHMD]

10 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 Mind Reader are you. I've been thinking that as well, and I agree it can't be a serious suggestion - can it ?

 

Who would risk it?

Besides, the Retailers (left) selling Hornby need Hornby and wouldn't want to see them go under.

 

Also, it's probably in (Hornby's) "Terms and Conditions" that they can "screw" whoever they like - except SC of course.

 

 

Kev.

[stonojnr]

13 hours ago, 40F said:

And to cap it all I believe that there is anther series of trumpet blowing sorry Hornby`s Model World or what ever it was called scheduled for later this year. They would be far better taking a long hard look at themselves and getting on with solving all the problems. 

 

yeah but like a lot of Hornby announcements, its not actually due to air till later next year ;)

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, SHMD said:

 

Who would risk it?

Besides, the Retailers (left) selling Hornby need Hornby and wouldn't want to see them go under.

 

 

I've said it before and will say it again.

The hobby needs the Hornby name.

 

But: unfortunately at the moment, Hornby are doing their best to do the opposite.

[Dunsignalling]

Yes, "everybody" knows the Hornby name but, almost everybody who knows it has never bought, and never will, buy a model train. Those of us who do, see something rather different than those who don't might imagine, and the customer reputation that goes with the name is not being well-maintained. 

 

At the same time, leaner new competitors without a load of corporate and PR baggage around their necks are beginning to better their product at lower prices. Hornby needs to learn from them if it is to thrive in the longer term, but probably lacks the humility to do so.

 

If the wish-listing for long modern trains in various threads on here is backed up by the wherewithal to buy the stuff if it actually gets made, there is a ton of money sloshing around in this hobby. However, those wish-listers are more than aware of other players and mostly would prefer them to produce these big-ticket items, rather than Hornby.

 

If the overall market for model trains stays the same (or shrinks as a result of economic factors) and Hornby doesn't get its act together, they will be forced  to place greater reliance on the non-train parts of the business. That's never gone well when they have tried it in the past.

 

It has to grow by at least what the new boys are selling, or Hornby's slice of it will inevitably see a decline. 

 

In my own case, this is already occurring , simply because Hornby has announced very little that I want for the past three years. I'm still spending, but mainly with others. Hornby used to account for three quarters of my modelling spend; in the coming year it looks like being less than 10% and the item that makes up most of that may well not arrive within that timescale! I doubt I am typical, but neither am I likely to be unique. For me at least, Hornby is starting to look dispensable, though that might all change in January.... 🙂 

 

On a more optimistic note, should that prove at all prophetic, somebody (Hatton's?) will pick up the pieces and put Humpty back together yet again. Other players will expand to take over some capacity and both the hobby and most of the retailers who serve it, will prove capable of adjusting in the meantime. They are getting plenty of practice at dealing with disruption of supply.....

 

John   

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[steve1]

Someone at Hornby must surely have seen this thread by now. (Plus, there must be more on other fora saying the same things.)

 

Hornby could help themselves by issuing a statement explaining the reasons for their actions. Unless, of course, they don’t care or can’t be bothered to.

 

steve

[The Stationmaster]

There's an awful lot in the name as far as Hornby are concerned.  At 31 March 2022 they valued their brand names in their accounts  at £5.2 million which included £286,000 for names added during the year (presumably Oxford?).  They valued their customer lists at at £1.459 million and their software and website at £4.325 million.

 

These totals were then amortised (this is done over periods of time and at rates explained in the accounts) but the brand names still ended up witha nett book figure of £1.475 million and the software and website came out at £1.542 million.

 

So clearly Hornby see their brand names as worth money which means they are also worth sales income (as we all know) and it is fairly big money - the base valuation of their brand names at £5.2 million was greater than 10% of their sales in year ended 2022, while amortised value taken to account was worth more to the company than its sales in Spain.

[wombatofludham]

Interesting.

Hornby have just polluted my social media feed with an invitation to shop at their bargain bin on-line "Outlet" with some fairly drastic discounts on presumably slow moving or overstocked items.

Odd then that they can't seemingly offer their previously loyal retailers a cut of the action.  Whilst it is a moot point if any retailers would want any of the shelf queens being bargain binned, it does rather re-enforce the perception that this whole retailer debacle is entirely motivated by wanting to become an online only retailer.

In which case why the hell don't they just fess up and let us all decide where it goes from here?

[David Stannard]

21 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Interesting.

Hornby have just polluted my social media feed with an invitation to shop at their bargain bin on-line "Outlet" with some fairly drastic discounts on presumably slow moving or overstocked items.

Odd then that they can't seemingly offer their previously loyal retailers a cut of the action.  Whilst it is a moot point if any retailers would want any of the shelf queens being bargain binned, it does rather re-enforce the perception that this whole retailer debacle is entirely motivated by wanting to become an online only retailer.

In which case why the hell don't they just fess up and let us all decide where it goes from here?

 

 Maybe they are using this as a litmus test to the viability of their proposed business model, basically they are trying to pivot modellers from loyalty to local retailers to their hip pockets, it's a counterproductive idea as offering them to retailers tends to pick up more sales, modellers will go into the local hobby shop or online to purchase those bargain items and generally walk out with more as they think well if I have saved money on this lot I can get some other gear as well.   

[HExpressD]

43 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Interesting.

Hornby have just polluted my social media feed with an invitation to shop at their bargain bin on-line "Outlet" with some fairly drastic discounts on presumably slow moving or overstocked items.

Odd then that they can't seemingly offer their previously loyal retailers a cut of the action.  Whilst it is a moot point if any retailers would want any of the shelf queens being bargain binned, it does rather re-enforce the perception that this whole retailer debacle is entirely motivated by wanting to become an online only retailer.

In which case why the hell don't they just fess up and let us all decide where it goes from here?

Most of the items look quite old such as the Class 71 which is some years old by now. I would assume that these items were offered to retailers as a 'one last time' attempt to shift them before listing them like this, I'm pretty sure Hornby don't do discounts or have ever done anything like this before?

[64F]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

There's an awful lot in the name as far as Hornby are concerned.  At 31 March 2022 they valued their brand names in their accounts  at £5.2 million which included £286,000 for names added during the year (presumably Oxford?).  They valued their customer lists at at £1.459 million and their software and website at £4.325 million.

 

These totals were then amortised (this is done over periods of time and at rates explained in the accounts) but the brand names still ended up witha nett book figure of £1.475 million and the software and website came out at £1.542 million.

 

So clearly Hornby see their brand names as worth money which means they are also worth sales income (as we all know) and it is fairly big money - the base valuation of their brand names at £5.2 million was greater than 10% of their sales in year ended 2022, while amortised value taken to account was worth more to the company than its sales in Spain.

But what do they think their name stands for, beyond nostalgic memories of Christmas mornings many years ago for a dwindling number of customers?  Almost all other manufacturers are associated with a particular quality and price point (with the exception of Dapol which has in effect two separate wagon ranges, each of which is sensibly priced for what they are).  Hornby would doubtless like their name to be associated with quality, and (patchy Chinese QC notwithstanding) some of their range delivers that.  On the other hand, there are also plenty of inaccurate old toys being churned out at ludicrously inflated prices, and not just in the Railroad range.  In between these extremes is some OK stuff that is not bad but does not always represent good value for money either.  They seem to want to be all things to all people, and ultimately I think it devalues the whole brand.  Perhaps that is one of the factors in their chaotic relationship with dealers.

[Nile]

34 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

I'm pretty sure Hornby don't do discounts or have ever done anything like this before?

I see you are new here, so maybe you missed when they did this a few years ago and undercut retailers with similar hard to shift stock.

[jonnyuk]

i collect slot cars as well as play trains, Scalextric now have an outlet, to be honest though prices on both trains and slot cars in the outlet stores are about the same as everywhere else so they are not under cutting anyone.

 

from outside looking in, Hornby appear to run like a one man band, long term strategy, short term tactical decisions all going through one person who changes his mind like the wind and thus there is no joined up roadmap for the next 5 years, i wonder if they have any mid level management to organise/track/sign things off. 

[Dunsignalling]

56 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Most of the items look quite old such as the Class 71 which is some years old by now. I would assume that these items were offered to retailers as a 'one last time' attempt to shift them before listing them like this, I'm pretty sure Hornby don't do discounts or have ever done anything like this before?

If the 59' Bulleid coaches are anything to go by, you couldn't make up a proper train using these bargains anyway. The prototypes all ran as 3-coach sets but they have none of the centre composites left! Either H didn't make enough or loads of Rule one merchants are running over-long sets with lots of first class compartments. Perhaps it might have been wiser to package them as sets? They have done so before, and three at a time isn't like trying to afford a full length HST in one go, after all. 

 

John

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

27 minutes ago, Nile said:

I see you are new here, so maybe you missed when they did this a few years ago and undercut retailers with similar hard to shift stock.

 Indeed .In this world nothing under the sun is new.

[john new]

1 hour ago, 64F said:

But what do they think their name stands for, beyond nostalgic memories of Christmas mornings many years ago for a dwindling number of customers?  ....snipped ....

 

Not even that as I am sure I am not alone as a former Hornby-Dublo purchaser in still thinking of them as simply Tri-ang rebadged. A view their t/l couplings continue to reinforce.

[john new]

44 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

If the 59' Bulleid coaches are anything to go by, you couldn't make up a proper train using these bargains anyway. The prototypes all ran as 3-coach sets but they have none of the centre composites left! Either H didn't make enough or loads of Rule one merchants are running over-long sets with lots of first class compartments. Perhaps it might have been wiser to package them as sets? They have done so before, and three at a time isn't like trying to afford a full length HST in one go, after all. 

 

John

And also their sets and train packs/bundles with post-1948 liveried locomotives but the other stock in the pack is pre-1948 liveried.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

There's an awful lot in the name as far as Hornby are concerned.  At 31 March 2022 they valued their brand names in their accounts  at £5.2 million which included £286,000 for names added during the year (presumably Oxford?).  

 

Would the current majority owners have bought and continue to put the amount of money that they have so far into a model train company without the Hornby name?

 

I think that is reasonably good proof that some people really do value the name, otherwise the company and it's assets would have been split up and sold off by now.

 

The value of the name of course is an entirely different question as to whether current management has a grasp on how the hobby has changed over the last 5 or so years and thus whether they are running the company in the best way to ensure its future...

[JohnR]

5 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I
Odd then that they can't seemingly offer their previously loyal retailers a cut of the action.  Whilst it is a moot point if any retailers would want any of the shelf queens being bargain binned, it does rather re-enforce the perception that this whole retailer debacle is entirely motivated by wanting to become an online only retailer.

In which case why the hell don't they just fess up and let us all decide where it goes from here?

 

Maybe they did. We certainly know Hattons (for one) have had recent large deliveries of similar hard to shift items from Hornby, which they are selling at a strong discount. 

 

Maybe whats on the outlet is the leavings left over from that.

[The Stationmaster]

6 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Maybe they did. We certainly know Hattons (for one) have had recent large deliveries of similar hard to shift items from Hornby, which they are selling at a strong discount. 

 

Maybe whats on the outlet is the leavings left over from that.

Or things - such as the Class 71 mountain - which retailers aren't prepared to touch because they know the stuff won't sell.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Would the current majority owners have bought and continue to put the amount of money that they have so far into a model train company without the Hornby name?

 

I think that is reasonably good proof that some people really do value the name, otherwise the company and it's assets would have been split up and sold off by now.

 

The value of the name of course is an entirely different question as to whether current management has a grasp on how the hobby has changed over the last 5 or so years and thus whether they are running the company in the best way to ensure its future...

Absolutely so.

 

It's only the name that has attracted buyers to salvage the group following near self-destruction under successive owners/management teams.

 

Whether keeping the group intact after takeovers has been good for business  or a hindrance to proper restructuring is perhaps debateable, though. The name only carries any real cachet when attached to model railway items.

 

John

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dunsignalling