Hornby cuts model shops' allocations of items due summer 2022

[Nile]

I bet this debacle doesn't make it into the next TV series, would make for some uncomfortable viewing for some.

[Hroth]

37 minutes ago, Nile said:

I bet this debacle doesn't make it into the next TV series, would make for some uncomfortable viewing for some.

The tv series is feelgood advertorial waffle, with some mild peril (will the models be produced in time?) . And lots of misinformed babble from SK.

 

Things that won't be mentioned might include:

Reduction of allocations to retailers

A description of how the tier system works

Why models announced for mid-2021 may now arrive mid-2023

Why so few obviously popular models are made at a time

The Titfield Thunderbolt/Lion...

 

I'll watch it, but not believe a word of it, its just the usual Reality TV cr@p.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hroth
Pressed the wrong button...

[Pete the Elaner]

Hornby do not seem to want to compete. I am pleased to see we have a choice with many products now.

I am mainly an D&E modeller. Their own 37 & 47 were poor models, especially the former which always had bogies from the latter.

Their more modern versions are little more than re-branded Lima toolings from the 1980s.

We have better competition now: Bachmann for both, Heljan for the 47 & shortly, Accurascale for the 37. All of these are vastly superior to the Hornby versions. I am glad Accurascale are also releasing a 31.

Hornby could have closed off these markets by updating their own tired range, but they instead left the door open for others to steal the market.

I am sure many of us watched the 2 part Hornby documentary presented by James May (in which I could be seen very briefly ... twice 🤩). Those who do saw Hornby reacting quite aggressively to a model shop commissioning a Terrier because they were tired of asking Hornby to update their own outdated model. "The Terrier is OUR model". Funny how they managed to update their own one so quickly afterwards.

Until recently, they have refused to use 21 pin decoder sockets because their own 21 pin decoder sold poorly due to being overpriced. Aside from the older Loksound models, their first 21 pin model was their 91 which won't even run on their own track even though Hornby view themselves as a manufacturer who caters for all.

For someone who thinks they cater for all, their track range is very limited: Limited choice of pointwork geometry, no live frog option & they sell D&E models but no concrete sleeper track.

 

My main interest is not steam or Diesel, it is AC Electric. Their 87 had some nice points but also some let-downs. The pantograph being the biggest let-down. Then along came Bachmann to show them how it should be done with their class 90: Switchable front & rear lights, an easy to reach decoder, a pantograph which will not only contact an overhead wire without breaking but is also motorised & an included speaker.

Their speaker provisioning is a joke too. It screams of the attitude of "We don't make our own sound decoder so we don't care about it".

Anyway, back to AC Electrics; finally an updated APT. Great in some areas but the capacitor in the seating bay is really poor & they even managed to make the pantograph worse than the 87s. The APTs springs back down when you try to lift it.

Their 86 was a decent model for its time but that was 40+ years ago. They had plenty of time to modernise it but left the door open for Heljan to upstage it.

 

The situation with Humbrol paints was ridiculous. The ruling may have been new but it was several years ago that the plans were put in place by the EU to ban certain contents. That should have been plenty of time to make changes. I would also have re-launched the brand so it was clear to identify old products from new. 

But to tell stockists they had to pull all their brand new products from sale without even offering any sort of support is despicable. I am glad that UK law has enabled retailers to not be ripped off by this fiasco.

 

Many modellers have been saying for a long time that Hornby need to raise their game or else others will put their nose out of joint. Sooner or later, the number of casual shoppers who cannot see past red boxes is falling as they realise there is genuine competition.

 

[PaulRhB]

So now the things I’d ordered direct because my local thought it unlikely they’d get the full set cancelled. I’ll do without rather than help perpetuate this farce. 
 

email

 

Absolutely pathetic, Mr Kohler and Mr Davies should be ashamed and I feel sorry for the Hornby workers. 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, DCB said:

Hornby aren't going to sell things at a discount to a dealer when they can sell direct to the public at full price are they?  I am sure dealers can expect their full allocation of unpopular models.   It just amazes me that so many people  anybody  would want such a niche loco in a fictitious livery.  

If Hornby want to go in for more direct selling of model railway stuff and starve retailers in order to boost their own sales then they ought to be telling the world that is what their aim is.  But I doubt they will say anything because it will mean retailers and customers walking away.  What it again seems to come back to is that their marketing and sales 'organisation' is in complete disarray - why on earth take orders that you can't fulfil (apart from getting headline numbers to quote in your stock market reports)?  Why go round upsetting not only your retailers but also your critical end market?  It strikes me as a company which when it comes to this market area is floundering about with little, or no,  idea or concern about what it is actually doing to its own reputation.

 

Meanwhile the newcomers are snapping at Hornby's heels partially through direct sales as they develop their business base but also in some cases by building a network of retailers which they apparently value sufficiently to actually supply with the stock they have ordered.  And that is notwithstanding the fact that those retailers are in direct competition with them in the marketplace when, as newcomers, direct sales are in their better financial interest.

 

Although it's now increasingly forgotten one past result of 'supply problems' from the established manufacturers was that retailers developed direct commissioning of their own models with factories in China/. Most of that retailer commissioning is still going on while at the same time the various newbies continue to emerge.  And yet Hornby in the past dismissed retailer commissioning asa passing fas which they needn't worry about.  Well perhaps they do now need to start worrying because if the can't supply the market, or certain areas of it, even in these straitened economic times it remains clear that others will and every £ spent with them is potentially a £ which is not spent with Hornby.  All well and good to come out with better mousetraps in the form of such things as diecast body components or clever exhaust steam generators but if your retailers can't get such things they aren't able to sell them - no matter how good that new mousetrap might be.

[Willie Whizz]

It’s all very well moaning on here - and being effectively ignored by Hornby - but I wonder whether their major shareholders are aware of what is going on?  I assume that, absent any other feedback, and not themselves being modellers presumably, they are only hearing the Company’s explanations, whatever those might be, and hearing an alternative point of view might induce them to start asking some pertinent questions. 
 

So maybe find out, and write to them as well/instead!

Edited July 4, 2022 by Willie Whizz

[David Stannard]

 Regardless of people being able to see pictures of the models online seeing the physical product sitting in a display case does help a lot when it comes to some people making the decision to purchase a model or not, I don't really care for Hornby much these days as they don't make much of what I want, I will admit that they have made some very nice models over the last few years of which I have some but there is plenty of other models available elsewhere. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by David Stannard

[PaulRhB]

29 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

It’s all very well moaning on here - and being effectively ignored by Hornby - but I wonder whether their major shareholders are aware of what is going on?

As people on here have attended the meetings as small shareholders the major ones must already be aware. If they annoy enough people then the balance sheet will do the talking, it’s not about starting a campaign against them. I’ve just had enough and will support my shop if they get stock, if not then I’ll do without, it’s not a boycott of the product but the way they are treating shops who provide a very valuable service. 

[CUCKOO LINE]

I always thought the idea of getting dealers to place orders early was so you could plan your production, i recollect in the past thats what they used to do ! Seems to be the way others do it and with similar suppliers/manufacturing facilities. Maybe Hornby have a less cordial relationship there also ?

[Legend]

2 hours ago, Nile said:

I bet this debacle doesn't make it into the next TV series, would make for some uncomfortable viewing for some.

 

Not a chance .  But it would be interesting to see for sure .  You have to say Rails saw it coming and got it right !

Edited July 4, 2022 by Legend

[cctransuk]

I believe that Hornby's current trading practices can be summed up in one word - arrogance!

 

I publicly challenge Simon Kohler, (with no expectation of success), to explain here the company's position vis-a-vis retailer and direct sales. He has, after all, made much of the company's virtues on that most public of platforms - television.

 

At least we would then be in a position to take a balanced view as to whether we wish to purchase Hornby products or not.

 

John Isherwood.

[Legend]

My reading of it is that Hornby want to move to direct sales  , LD said as much in his report .   However its too much of a risk to move directly so they are giving the pretense of supporting retailers / end user while all the time cutting the rug out from under them . They hope to maintain the cash flow from retailers until they make final preparations  .

 

In fairness I think there is a lot to be said (from Hornbys point of view) from pursueing a direct sales model . But its the duplicity of their approach that really grates .

 

The only way to deal with this is to boycott their direct sales channel . As has been pointed out above ironically this may result in Hattons receiving a load of stock that's not shifting !

 

Or it could just be total incompetence. 

[andyman7]

Based on experience from the past year, many items that were rationed on pre-order have become available at retailers after a short delay, and in a number of cases at fairly good prices (e.g. Azuma, APT). So I shall continue to buy Hornby through the retail trade if I fancy an item and it is available. But I won't pre-order and I don't want to buy direct and have to play Courier Roulette.

[JackB95]

I've only once bought direct off Hornby, and that was during a Black Friday sale where I could genuinely get a good deal. But that was years ago...

I noticed on Tony's Trains of Rugby's socials that he's announced publicly about the whole allocations fiasco, and a conversation with Collett's revealed the same.

 

It's such a sad state of affairs given what a great name Hornby once had in this hobby. I count myself very lucky in that I can afford to still remain in this hobby and buy new models. But I'm close to completely boycotting all new Hornby stuff given the way it's treating our friends in the retail industry, and indeed us at the end by paying more.

 

Starting to think we should maybe all consider writing a strongly-worded email to Hornby, and maybe even some of their big supporters like magazines etc? It can't go on. Yes this hobby is a luxury and not a necessity, but the company morals are wrong... 

[AY Mod]

On 04/07/2022 at 11:00, Willie Whizz said:

write to them as well/instead!

 

I rebooted a previous dialogue (instigated by them some years ago) with the relevant party.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by AY Mod

[KeithMacdonald]

We reap what we sow.

 

A few years ago, someone started an online business called Amazon. Some said it was a passing fad and high street & retail shops had nothing to fear.  Roll on a few years ... I don't know about you, but my high street is beginning to look like a ghost town. About half of the retail shops have gone, replaced with charity shops and coffee shops. The retail shops that have gone could not compete with online and direct sales.

 

Hornby is one producer in what is (dare I say it) a relatively minor industry that is irrelevant to 95% of the UK population. What's happening to retail model shops is just one instance of a much wider malaise that affects the whole of the UK retail industry.

 

Personally, I don't plan on buying anything from Hornby anyway. I have enough locos and rolling stock already, a shelf full of kits still to be built, and the Accurascale/Bachmann/Heljan/Rapido models (and ScaleScenes scenery) appeal more to me.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Well, as someone with limited space, I'm mostly into N and 009 — which Hornby aren't. For OO it's mostly smaller locos, but not industrials. The only forthcoming Hornby product I am interested in — the standard 2MT — seems to have been forgotten about, quite frankly.

[Hroth]

1 minute ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Well, as someone with limited space, I'm mostly into N and 009 — which Hornby aren't. For OO it's mostly smaller locos, but not industrials. The only forthcoming Hornby product I am interested in — the standard 2MT — seems to have been forgotten about, quite frankly.

The Std 2MT is just one of several models that have shuffled quietly into this time next year...  I'm glad I didn't put in a preorder for one!

 

[RichardT]

34 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Hornby is one producer in what is (dare I say it) a relatively minor industry that is irrelevant to 95% of the UK population. What's happening to retail model shops is just one instance of a much wider malaise that affects the whole of the UK retail industry.

Everything you say is obviously true, and if the issue was simply an announcement from Hornby that they were dropping retail and becoming a direct seller only then that would be that.
 

However, that isn’t the issue. The issue is Hornby’s lack of honest communication, seemingly chaotic business strategy, and lack of respect/regard both for the retailers they claimed to be supporting only weeks ago, and also for the customers who’ve ordered things in good faith from those retailers.

 

In retrospect it’s easy to see the Smarmy Simon TV show as laying the ground for this - raise the company’s profile with a new audience and in the current age the first thing that those curious customers will do is go to the internet, where Hornby’s direct sales are waiting, not to a model retailer. In fact, didn’t the first series feature a retailer where the whole point of the segment was that they only got one of the locos that they’d ordered?

 

See also Hornby advertising themselves as a direct seller via English Heritage member mailings, about which I’ve posted elsewhere.  This is obviously their new strategy - when they’re not indulging in a little light licensing-infringement - so have the guts to be honest about it.

 

Richard T

Edited July 4, 2022 by RichardT
Edit

[Hroth]

4 hours ago, Legend said:

My reading of it is that Hornby want to move to direct sales  , LD said as much in his report .

 

I expect they'll do a radical market segmentation, with real tiers.

• The "Direct Sales" channel will address both the collector market and those who want super-detailed RTR and are prepared to pay for it. The "upper-end" Railroad Plus models might also be sold as direct sales just to make the volume numbers look good.
• Bog standard Railroad and boxed starter sets based on Railroad components will be distributed through wholesalers with special marketing deals (Christmas, etc) for mass market chains.  Trackpacks and basic trackside accessories would also be distributed via this avenue. Model shops would be able to access Hornby Trains* through this route.

All neatly cutting out the traditional model railway retailer for full-fat (and semi-skimmed!) models and minimising the need to support Railroad and starter sets once sold.

 

A nice shortsighted approach!

 

Its Our Way, its the Hornby Way!

 

* Perhaps a new branding for the really basic stuff, reminiscent of the fag-end of "O" gauge tinplate in the early 50s.  SK does love (mis)appropriating Binns Road history!

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hroth
An extra thort...

[rembrow]

There was a forewarning of this a few weeks ago, with Corgi. I also have an interest in scale bus and coach models, although there has been nothing new from Corgi for some time. In their July to Dec release announcement, there were two new bus liveries, however British Model Buses established that stock would not be made available to retailers only direct from Corgi. I don't know about other Corgi genres but would imagine any other new releases are the same. I have not ordered anything from Hornby this year, but have  late crest W1, a 9f and a 2mt on back order with Kernow. If those are cancelled I won't be going elsewhere. Yet again Hornby are showing themselves to be arrogant and untrustworthy. There is only so much you can drag a trusted brand through the mud before it stinks and becomes a pariah.

[Ribird]

Let's not forget their "estimated" arrival dates they announced for this years products. Almost all were slated for this year, now all of them are pushed back. Yes, the world has been crazy for the last 2+ years, which Hornby knew that, so why make unrealistic dates that they knew they would never meet? (I do appreciate all other manufactures that have pages dedicated for where in the process each product is at)

 

What Hornby wants to keep "in house" and what they want to give retailers should be set in stone when they announce each year, not like they have been doing for the last two years, change allocations many times causing this confusion and stress.  Or change individual "popular" products and have mass panics as everyone tries to get that one product. I'm looking specifically at the W1, original Rocket packs, and the one-pack of the LMR Rocket wagon. You could say they wanted the guaranteed money they saw, but as all of these discussions are, just rumours or theories. Like this next statement, which I would love to learn more about, is that Hornby is given a certain production slot to make x amount, but can only make y. Or even Hornby can't provide the necessary materials on time, which could be themselves or the crazy nature of the world right now. 

 

As discussed in other threads and old news, Kernow doesn't have any 2022 pre-orders available for this exact reason. 

 

(Just a note, not related to allocation cuts, the P2 and 9F's are not even close for even last year announcement. And just like the BR Blue MN, the Malachite Lord Nelson, if timelines stay, won't release until 3 years after announcement) 

 

Another note for retailers' allocations being cut, I haven't seen any mention of the LNER Coronation stock yet, but you can't even order the full rake on Hornby's site, the observation coach is all sold out. 

 

I really feel bad for everyone affected by this and the retailers who get the hardest with these kinds of business decisions. I'm glad I only have a few items from Hornby, but I will guess like everyone else, preorders they can't simply go to another company or kit built well (P2's and Coronation Stock)

Edited July 4, 2022 by Ribird

[Martin_R]

When (or if) Hornby attend exhibitions etc I wonder how many placard waving modellers and retailers will make their presence felt (and be forcibly removed) from the Hornby stand especially if the media pick up on it. Then again Hornby seem to regard anything and everything as good publicity these days. I personally will never purchase a Hornby Group product ever again.

[pete_mcfarlane]

21 hours ago, Bilbo said:

So if I want one of those 36 locos that Derails aren't going to get I either buy direct or wait until they don't sell out and get a bargain from the inevitable Hattons Sale which seem to be the norm now.

But how many of those 36 models did the factory actually produce? 

 

It sounds like Hornby order (made up number) 500 models to sell direct, and another 500 for the shops. And the factory only delivered 550, so there's only 50 for the shops..... 

[SHMD]

14 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

But how many of those 36 models did the factory actually produce? 

 

It sounds like Hornby order (made up number) 500 models to sell direct, and another 500 for the shops. And the factory only delivered 550, so there's only 50 for the shops..... 

 

...or did the factory deliver 1000, Hornby saw the popularity (through the Pre-Orders), and decided they want to keep all the mark-up for themselves?

...or did the factory deliver 1000, Hornby saw the popularity (through the number of direct sales on their website ), AND didn't stop taking more orders when their own allocation limit was reached.

...or . . . . . . .

 

I have no idea what they are really up to - but it doesn't look good.

 

 

Kev.