Hornby cuts model shops' allocations of items due summer 2022

[jjb1970]

9 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

I keep seeing peope cite Amazon as competition... but (at least in the UK), the Amazon Hornby offerings are rather dreadful.

 

For me it's not so much that Amazon are a competitor for Hornby, rather that they set a benchmark for how to do e-commerce. I know there are all sorts of reasons to criticize Amazon but from a customer perspective they provide a very easy, slick on-line shopping experience and they do it profitably. They do it so well many people assume it is easy and cheap to do, but it isn't. 

Some of Hornby's competitors do it extremely well but last time Hornby tried it didn't seem fully thought through. Many modellers use 'box shifter' as a pejorative term but I see it as a compliment as shops like Kernow, Rails and Hattons provide superb service to their remote customers. Again, if something works that well people don't notice it then it tends to mean a lot of hard work and expertise has gone into it.

[JohnR]

13 hours ago, Jonboy said:

I hope not, it’s complex enough as it is and hearing those fateful words “I am from the Government and here to help” do not inspire confidence…

 

No, you misunderstand me. They are involved because Amazon makes it too difficult for suppliers. They will, if they find that its non-competitive, enforce action to change the rules. Similar investigation happening in the EU (which is what has prompted the UK CMA to act). 

[Trevor Hammond]

16 hours ago, Neil said:

 

Perhaps the CMA should investigate Hornby's treatment  of their dealers. 

[Butler Henderson]

My rule is if found on Amazon do a web search; a tablet on an Amazon 24 hour offer was £50 cheaper from the manufacturer and looking for a TV bracket the one I found suitable initially lead me to Amazon but then I found it £5 cheaper plus post free compared to having to spend an extra £5 on Amazon to get free postage. I did try Amazon prime but deliveries were no quicker; its not usual to get next day or next but one without paying extra. Most model railway items on there seem to be via Gaugemaster who offer on thier own web site sales free postage on order of £25+ and anything of value gets free express delivery IME.

 

Whether the CMA has any weight is down to what contract exists between Hornby and the model shop; one would expect Hornby to be fully aware of any limitations/requirements on them but then given the Titgate affair reading the law etc is plainly not something they are good at.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[The Stationmaster]

An extract from Hornby's Financial Report published on 16 June 2022 referring to Section 172 of the Companies Act. (This item is in the public domain published by a concern independent of Hornby so it is presumably ok to show it in this manner - if not I'm sure the Mods will correct me)

 

 

 

 

[Pmorgancym]

18 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

I keep seeing peope cite Amazon as competition... but (at least in the UK), the Amazon Hornby offerings are rather dreadful.

You need to be in the right place at the right time I've picked up a B2 and 0-4-0 Peckett at quite decent prices when they randomly popped up as 'deal of the day'

[newbryford]

8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

An extract from Hornby's Financial Report published on 16 June 2022 referring to Section 172 of the Companies Act. (This item is in the public domain published by a concern independent of Hornby so it is presumably ok to show it in this manner - if not I'm sure the Mods will correct me)

 

 

 

 

 

Out of 6 - how many do they fulfil?

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

Out of 6 - how many do they fulfil?

Some we have no idea because they are internal to the company but I can see a couple  where it would seem they are - how shall I put it? - 'apparently falling short'.

[adb968008]

20 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

I think something along the lines of the Toymaster model could work quite well. 

You say Toymaster, I recall ToysRUs.
Over the years theres been several attempts at modelshop chains… Beatties, Modelzone etc.

 

I think they fail ultimately at scale, you can only grow as big as the hobby is. At some point they build a niche thats as big as its going to get, but the overheads start to grow, at that point it becomes about volume and discounts.

 

A Franchise of shops might be better, so retailers build their own brand between themselves but continue running as before… builds awareness but keeps their core as is and is done at low cost (ie a marketing thing branding, website etc)….

 

Indeed I think Hornby missed the trick there, if it wanted to put its name on the street at lower cost advertising it could have co-funded above store naming boards for retailers in its font/colours for its accredited retailers.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by adb968008

[Mike Harvey]

2 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

A Franchise of shops might be better, so retailers build their own brand between themselves but continue running as before… builds awareness but keeps their core as is and is done at low cost (ie a marketing thing branding, website etc)….

 

I think that Toymaster fulfills that function already. The ones I know do not all stock the same brands or lines but presumably benefit from a centralised buying and then distribution function. A look at the website reveals a lot of "family" shop names. https://www.toymaster.co.uk/

[Butler Henderson]

Beatties were part of a wider group that failed. Earlier reference was made in the thread to Mainline, they disappeared due to their owners pulling out of Europe.

[JohnR]

Toymaster isnt a chain of shops - its a buying group, which provides branding, central invoicing etc, and each Toymaster shop is an independent local retailer. Toymaster is a mutual organisation, owned by its member retailers. They can also provide independent advice to retailers. 

 

Its nothing like Toys R us, or the model chains such as Beatties. 

[Bucoops]

41 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Toymaster isnt a chain of shops - its a buying group, which provides branding, central invoicing etc, and each Toymaster shop is an independent local retailer. Toymaster is a mutual organisation, owned by its member retailers. They can also provide independent advice to retailers. 

 

Its nothing like Toys R us, or the model chains such as Beatties. 

 

Essentially a Co-Operative then? Makes sense.

[frobisher]

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

Its nothing like Toys R us, or the model chains such as Beatties. 

 

Much more like Euronics and their electrical retailers.

Edited July 9, 2022 by frobisher

[andyman7]

7 hours ago, Trevor Hammond said:

Perhaps the CMA should investigate Hornby's treatment  of their dealers. 

Well indeed, because of course that's right up there with the energy market, fuel retailers etc as the nation's top priority 🙄

[Roy Langridge]

After my self-imposed Hornby embargo after they introduced the tier system I have pretty much stayed clear of the Hornby threads, but came to read this after seeing a comment elsewhere. 
 

What can I say, I sympathise with those not getting their models (I was there before) and commend those now avoiding Hornby. Their attitude and behaviour will only change if they see a negative result.
 

If everyone just buys direct they will win in the short-term, but when their actions lead to a loss of model shops, they will lose in the long-term. 
 

If anybody from Hornby reads this, your actions are now embarrassing. If I ran my business as you do, I would deserve to go bust. 

 

Roy

[adb968008]

I too am out, when it comes to Hornby.

 

I told my main retailer last friday that at this stage, i’d prefer not to pre-order Hornby at this point and to cancel those pre-orders (no small back order either), as the risks of:

 

1. Not getting it

2. getting it with errors

3. getting it with low quality

4. getting it and finding it devalues very quickly

5. not being able to get a full rake of…. (Insert any array of coaches, wagons.. drax comes to mind)…

 

are all too great at this point.

The retailer agrees its fairer to cancel now, before things arrive, than to cancel after its arrived leaving them with excess stock and an invoice for it. (he did mention some customers have been abandoning pre-orders after arrival, leaving them stuck with it).

 

The Hornby website isnt going to cut it for me either, as 2,3&4 still apply.

 

i’m going to stick with buying from my shop, but want to see it first, eliminate the above risks and finally see the price. i’ll take the 1 risk on it being a “sell out” over the 5 risks identified above, and if the price has ballooned.. well I've no obligation in this scenario.

 

Indeed is there really that much selling out right now ?

The final straw really was seeing Accurascales price/quality against the tat in red boxes this year. Then reading the on going Fredrick Forsyth novel thats being written in kent.

I offered to write a polite-ish email that he could then forwards to his Hornby rep, but he pointed out there isnt one, and the email address probably wouldnt care either, indeed if he did pass on a complaint it actually risks bringing a plague on his house from Hornby anyway.

 

For me on Hornby the game is up, i’m out… ive been half out since the Jan fiasco, but i’m done now. I had a night of the long knives on Hornbys site cancelling stuff out there too.

 

My Future Hornby purchases will be based on seeing the actual results, rather than advance promises, and seeing if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

in one line, i’m naffed off with it, and don't want to be on the hook for buying it.

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

Fortunately this year have absolutely nothing on offer that will tempt me and that is only likely to change when the right sort of Black 5s come along or a certain type of restaurant vehicle (some hope for the latter).  

 

So my model railway spend is going elsewhere to people who are producing things which are 'useful' to me.  However Hornby has done me one favour by trying to have a clear out of its over-stocked past releases and certain retailers are able to offer some very attractive prices on things which offer a bit of realistic variety and which I wouldn't have touched at Hornby's original prices.  And there is the huge advantage that these things are actually on retailers' shelves or on their stand at an exhibition - just like models from other concerns.    Availability, especially at an attractive price, can achieve sales.  

 

Failing to supply retailers simply puts people off, and there are lots of alternatives to red boxes on the shop shelves or available for 'remote' customers.

[jjb1970]

I won't boycott Hornby as whatever reservations I have about them I also admit if they make a model I like and I consider it offers acceptable value then I will buy. For all their faults they're pretty much an essential supplier for those who want SR RTR models and when they get it right then they make some wonderful models, it's just a shame they are carrying baggage.  

[sawyermodels]

I see on Instagram today, Hornby are promoting the Beatles Singles from Liverpool Train Pack (class 73 & 2 coaches) saying pre order via them or retailers. As they are still taking pre orders so have stock unsold, I'd like them to give back to me the ones they've cut from my allocation, (we're now getting just 1!) We've had to let several customers down this week having been told we are now only getting 1. This item was only announced in January 2022, Hornby had decided what our allocation was when the order form was sent out, yet they now are taking all but 1 off us. Being in Greater Manchester and about 40 minutes from Liverpool we have many customers who are Beatles fans. Not a good way to run a business. To say we are a bit miffed is an understatement. 

[Flittersnoop]

On 07/07/2022 at 06:33, steve1 said:

Someone at Hornby must surely have seen this thread by now. (Plus, there must be more on other fora saying the same things.)

 

Hornby could help themselves by issuing a statement explaining the reasons for their actions. Unless, of course, they don’t care or can’t be bothered to.

 

steve

It must be a combination of the latter two.

 

They're relying on new models being "must haves" - their attitude will seriously discourage me from buying their products, especially from their website. The S&D coach which I had ordered from Gaugemaster and now won't get I can do without.

 

I wrote to Hornby in January after I had to place orders with half a dozen retailers just to get the items I wanted from their 2022 announcements. I've no idea what I'll end up with, and frankly I'm past caring, especially after the tone-deaf reply I received from Simon Kohler.

[Drifter]

1 hour ago, sawyermodels said:

I see on Instagram today, Hornby are promoting the Beatles Singles from Liverpool Train Pack (class 73 & 2 coaches) saying pre order via them or retailers. As they are still taking pre orders so have stock unsold, I'd like them to give back to me the ones they've cut from my allocation, (we're now getting just 1!) We've had to let several customers down this week having been told we are now only getting 1. This item was only announced in January 2022, Hornby had decided what our allocation was when the order form was sent out, yet they now are taking all but 1 off us. Being in Greater Manchester and about 40 minutes from Liverpool we have many customers who are Beatles fans. Not a good way to run a business. To say we are a bit miffed is an understatement. 

When did they inform you? Was it Yesterday? Can you get any from other retailers, if you ask for Help? Then may you will get by with A Little Help From My Friends.

Write to Hornby and Ask Me Why? They may send you down a Long And Winding Road. I suspect they will say that you Should Have Known Better. 
If you don’t get any reply email them Eight Days a Week. Keep going even if you have to Twist and Shout.

l have a feeling they may treat you like a Fool On The Hill, but if you do get a good response you can say I Feel Fine and can tell Hornby that you really did Please Please Me.

At least the weather’s good, Here Comes the Sun. 
In My Life, never known such a Misery, it’s a Magical Mystery Tour for retailers and they may start a Revolution in order to Get Back.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Drifter

[Robin Brasher]

On 10/07/2022 at 20:16, Flittersnoop said:

It must be a combination of the latter two.

 

They're relying on new models being "must haves" - their attitude will seriously discourage me from buying their products, especially from their website. The S&D coach which I had ordered from Gaugemaster and now won't get I can do without.

 

I wrote to Hornby in January after I had to place orders with half a dozen retailers just to get the items I wanted from their 2022 announcements. I've no idea what I'll end up with, and frankly I'm past caring, especially after the tone-deaf reply I received from Simon Kohler.

I expect you will be able to get your S & D coach from a Hornby dealer when it comes out. The four wheel LSWR coaches were moderately must have models for me.  I ordered them from Kernow. Some arrived in February 2021. The others were available from Hornby in July but Kernow's allocation was not available until December.  Now they are all readily available.  I think some people bought the Hornby models as a stop gap measure until Hattons produced theirs.  When they do I expect the Hornby models will turn into Hattons bargains.  Rather than pulling the rug from Hattons Hornby would have done better to have produced some bogie coaches in pre grouping liveries. In a couple of years time I expect there will be more 4 and 6 wheel S&D coaches around than anyone needs.

[Dunsignalling]

On 10/07/2022 at 20:16, Flittersnoop said:

It must be a combination of the latter two.

 

They're relying on new models being "must haves" - their attitude will seriously discourage me from buying their products, especially from their website. The S&D coach which I had ordered from Gaugemaster and now won't get I can do without.

 

I wrote to Hornby in January after I had to place orders with half a dozen retailers just to get the items I wanted from their 2022 announcements. I've no idea what I'll end up with, and frankly I'm past caring, especially after the tone-deaf reply I received from Simon Kohler.

I've "lost out" on a couple of items recently, but the only effect has been for me to reconsider what I define as a "must have" and in these cases, I decided I wasn't actually that bothered after all.

 

I have one (direct) Hornby pre-order outstanding; the item  will be a website exclusive so there is no choice. I'm still pre-ordering other brands but have decided to take pot luck on Hornby items from now on. It's unlikely to increase my uncertainty of supply, and if I miss out on the item, Hornby miss out on my money. If it's a sell-out, I'll take it on the chin, if not, I'll probably get it cheaper in a few months time. Simple.  

 

John

Edited July 12, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Merchant Navy]

I'm not the most well-informed on this subject, but from what I can tell Hornby's anti-competitive and dishonourable business practises are disgraceful. Perhaps a boycott of new Hornby products is in order?

There's always the second-hand market.