Hornby cuts model shops' allocations of items due summer 2022

[JSpencer]

On 04/07/2022 at 11:49, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

Although it's now increasingly forgotten one past result of 'supply problems' from the established manufacturers was that retailers developed direct commissioning of their own models with factories in China/. Most of that retailer commissioning is still going on while at the same time the various newbies continue to emerge.  And yet Hornby in the past dismissed retailer commissioning asa passing fas which they needn't worry about.  Well perhaps they do now need to start worrying because if the can't supply the market, or certain areas of it, even in these straitened economic times it remains clear that others will and every £ spent with them is potentially a £ which is not spent with Hornby.  All well and good to come out with better mousetraps in the form of such things as diecast body components or clever exhaust steam generators but if your retailers can't get such things they aren't able to sell them - no matter how good that new mousetrap might be.

 

I think retailer commissions are becoming a thing of the past, or rather less and less. Rails are still clinging in there with various announcements but Kernow/Hattons seemed to have slowed down.

However new competition are getting more powerful. Now the first player (DJM) sunk himself, and then Oxfordrail - which I expected to become big, ended up as part of Hornby even if not working on the same principles (thank goodness) and have somewhat slowed. But the ones making big impact are Accurascale and Rapido and I expect them to continue to grow.

 

Hornby can produce something to tempt me.... but they make it hard for me to buy. 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

49 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Hornby stopped using Sanda Kan after it became part of Bachmann's parent company.

 

Two questions:

• If this issue could be laid at the door of the factories in China, why haven't others had to do the same?

• If it's just a raft of delays, why hasn't Hornby told the retailers that?

No, either Hornby has taken retailer orders for far greater quantities than they have ordered from the factories, or for far more than the factories are able to fulfil because of commitments to others made before Hornby tried to book production slots.

 

Whichever is the case, It's a Hornby issue, and probably rooted in Hornby's continued adherence to an annual "big bang" set of announcements that force them into taking orders they have no way of knowing they can honour.

 

Hornby was able to adjust quantities in the light of orders exceeding initial estimates when they actually made things themselves. Now they are reliant on production capacity that is contractually shared between a number commissioners, decisions have to be far more fixed in advance. Hornby is "just one of the crowd", and the way they interface between those they supply and those who supply them may well be problematic.  

 

John

 

 

Simple fact is that others have suffered delays but that has not been noticeable in the way that Hornby's delays are noticeable (and Bachmann's, in some respects, used to be).  So as we've both said a great way to highlight your delays is by making an annual big bang announcement complete with intended delivery dates and then get hammered for not meeting your dates.  Seems - from what LCD has said - that they are beginning to learn but it has taken them far too long to do so.  

 

Where Hornby are unique is in accepting pre-orders from the trade which it turns out (again and again) they subsequently say they are unable to meet (even before the product lands in the UK).  So they have a serious problem somewhere in their marketing dept - basically a lack of either competence or the simple ability to count and reconcile one lot of numbers with another number, or a combination of the two shortcomings.

[Graham_Muz]

23 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

I think retailer commissions are becoming a thing of the past, or rather less and less. Rails are still clinging in there with various announcements but Kernow/Hattons seemed to have slowed down.

 

Not true with respect to Kernow, just the policy of when to announce has changed. 

[Willie Whizz]

“Delay” means what you asked for is still coming, just not yet. “Inability to Supply” or “No longer Willing to Supply even though we agreed to take your order” - means you’re not getting any, ever. Certainly at least until (if ever) they decide to commission another batch of exactly the same thing, in which case the game resets; or until they graciously let you have some they weren’t able to sell themselves after all. I’d have thought that was perfectly understandable …

Edited July 5, 2022 by Willie Whizz

[Ouroborus]

52 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

 

The one affecting Hornby specifically appears to be the long-run effect of trying to drive out discounting. Put simply, if I am restricted to making x of something by supply chain issues; and I know I can sell the whole production batch without leftovers, why am I giving intermediaries a cut of the profit when I need every last penny of it to survive. It's the last bit that suggest a company that is under stress, because the need to maximise returns outweighs the need to maintain cordial relations with the retail supply chain.

 

 

Hornby seem keen to drive out discounting.... .... .... unless its them doing the discounting.  Cue the Hornby Outlet shop.  Marginal savings on things you didn't want.

 

I must confess that i haven't read every post, but there does seem to be an elephant in the room of a company which uses its dealers to collect orders and thus guide them to determine how much to produce.   And of course, Hornby are not the only company that operate this model.

 

But Hornby seems to be the only one that then cuts off that supply to those same dealers, yet supply to its own internet shop seems robust.

 

You can't help but be cynical about what's going on.  Very easy to blame supply chain issues.  Maybe Hornby have read all these forum posts of customers having their orders with local model shop cancelled through lack of supply and having to reluctantly reorder with big H.   Maybe Hornby have figured that when customers have ordered a model, it is an uncommon occurrence for them to give up wanting it; that customer will just look to order it from elsewhere - step forward Hornby online shop.

 

In short, big H will use the model shops for insight and gauge demand, but want to keep it all for themselves.

 

Can see more and more following Rails' example.

 

 

 

 

[sidmouth]

6 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

I would say it was a reasonable and logical explanation for what has happened. Why else cut the supply of pre-ordered items now to shops? And by such large amounts? If Hornby knew they had more orders from shops than they could fulfil, why did they not say so back in January when those orders were placed with them?

 

Or they knew based on preorders with shops the volumes and saw an opportunity to increase their margin by taking the x% retailers get and in effect hoping the majority of pre orders with retailers shift to direct website sales . Now we could of course not move any of those preorders leaving Hornby sat on a mountain of stock they have to fund until such time they release it back to a now totally tiddled off trade or heavily discount on their website 

 

[andyman7]

9 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

Hornby seem keen to drive out discounting.... .... .... unless its them doing the discounting.  Cue the Hornby Outlet shop.  Marginal savings on things you didn't want

 

Well of course - that's exactly the point. No discounts on popular stuff that sells out. Remember that this thread is driven primarily by frustration at being unable to secure pre-orders through retailers. 

 

Remember too that any discount on items bought from Hornby direct still deliver a higher per-item yield to them than if a retailer margin had to be built in. 

[Dunsignalling]

Just thinking out loud..

I wonder in which Tier model retailers would place Hornby?

 

Footie fans in Scotland have a reputation, when they have no skin in the game, of cheering for A.B.E.

 

How long before retailers accept that they are being used and decide they'll be better off stocking E.B.H?

 

John

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[MidlandRed]

As a recent re-entrant to the model railway hobby I have read this thread with interest, but with none of the ongoing history of Hornby (except recent events over the last couple of years (some of them seemingly balmy (Titfield) and the TV programme). Perhaps my approach is different from those who’ve been around much longer. 
 

They have announced two models I’m very interested in this year so (in order to guarantee their delivery) I have ordered them direct from Hornby (no deposit) - I know other people who’ve done the same in recent years - this is no different from several other models I’ve ordered from others variously including Accurascale (who took the full whack payment for something due for delivery some time hence), SLW (no deposit) and Rapido (minimal deposit) - I have ordered other models recently through major retailers (they’re not available direct) - and regularly use them to purchase models they have in stock, including variously TMC, Hattons, Rails and Kernow. There are no brick and mortar shops anywhere near where I live these days. I’m certainly not going to shy away from direct manufacturer orders as a principle as I suspect this method will continue to be part of the breadth of the sales model for the industry (if other retail is anything to go by). 
 

I have also noticed that some models seemingly ‘commissioned’ by major retailers are now available either via that retailer OR direct from the manufacturer (presumably bypassing the major commissioning retailer) - hopefully that doesn’t affect the major commissioning retailer’s ‘cut’ - the price appears to be the same whichever method is chosen. 

 

This does seem to be trend (purchase direct on line from manufacturer) - however I don’t see the level of ire and acrimony vented on other companies and whilst I can understand retailers getting annoyed with Hornby’s antics, presumably Hornby has only changed this because web site sales are such that they need to pull back on supply to retailers to ensure they can supply all their direct orders - understandable, however annoying - as they are desperately trying to make a profit. 
 

However I just think this is how things are now and as I said earlier in the post - the models I really want, I want guarantee of receiving so web site it is - the alternative is to wait for used sales or hope there will be sales via retailers later (of unsold stock) - that seems unlikely if the models are over-subscribed in the first place. 

 

It will be no different when the PWM project becomes available for order - whichever method (direct or retailer) delivers the model I want, that will be the method I choose - I won’t be buying a version of the model I don’t want, on principle just to support the retailer which is doing that part of the offering. 
 

It’s interesting this web site is little different from other specialised forums (on completely different subjects). There is a vast amount of advice provided to organisations manufacturing and retailing product - much of it very valuable - some not so much - some a little unrealistic - however on one that i get involved with there was once a major spat between some individuals, the owners of the forum and a major manufacturer (and particularly its CEO) - that manufacturer is still operating very successfully some years later, but it did point out on its own website that the forum concerned represented a fraction of 1 per cent of their market in that country (U.K.), and it was really only half a dozen people with axes to grind that caused this - how much the negative publicity created, who knows. 
 

As I say, my approach is as a relatively new re-entrant to railway modelling, but with several friends who have been in it for the long haul - we all have quite different views on buying model railway product. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by MidlandRed

[Oldddudders]

8 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Non of this actually matters to me. My local model shop up and moved to Widnes so I don’t actually go to a shop. I order online for most things. My son is a member of the Hornby  club so we automatically get 10% off everything including pre orders and wait for big buys for the occasional 20% off all in stock that they do. The two model shops that are closest to me now are both awful. A lot of companies do direct sales but never get the flack that the red box gets.

Hornby is getting flack not for operating direct sales, but for not honouring deals with shops. I am sorry your two nearest model shops are ‘awful’. Could you specify why? Could it just be that they sell more non-railway stuff, provided by suppliers who actually deliver on their promises? 

 

Living overseas Hornby’s online presence might seem to be just what I need, but I haven’t used it. When I am in the UK I visit shops in Devon and Cornwall. Indeed, when I walked into one the other week, the proprietor said “Welcome home!”. He, like others, struggles to fulfill customer orders if Hornby won’t supply him. The resulting reduced turnover is bad news for him.

 

Shops are our hobby’s window on the world. They attract passers-by to look, wonder and maybe buy into what we do. We, the modelling community, need that public face. 

[McC]

7 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

variously including Accurascale (who took the full whack payment for something due for delivery some time hence)

 

Just to clarify, you -can- pay, you can also pay a small downpayment (typically £30) to secure the item, or indeed pay interest free, flexible instalments. If you have paid in full and did not wish to , we can happily refund you.

[MidlandRed]

40 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Just to clarify, you -can- pay, you can also pay a small downpayment (typically £30) to secure the item, or indeed pay interest free, flexible instalments. If you have paid in full and did not wish to , we can happily refund you.

Thanks for replying - I’m happy to support you and trust the model to arrive eventually, but thanks for the offer (and for the courtesy of replying).

 

I was a little surprised at the time - maybe I didn’t understand the options available at the time - yours would not be the only website where I have got confused at some point but you may wish to look into whether it’s abundantly clear what the options are. I shall be ordering more models from you in due course (hoping for new variants in the second batches for each!!)

[scottystitch]

1 hour ago, MidlandRed said:

As a recent re-entrant to the model railway hobby I have read this thread with interest, but with none of the ongoing history of Hornby (except recent events over the last couple of years (some of them seemingly balmy (Titfield) and the TV programme). Perhaps my approach is different from those who’ve been around much longer. 
 

They have announced two models I’m very interested in this year so (in order to guarantee their delivery) I have ordered them direct from Hornby (no deposit) - I know other people who’ve done the same in recent years - this is no different from several other models I’ve ordered from others variously including Accurascale (who took the full whack payment for something due for delivery some time hence), SLW (no deposit) and Rapido (minimal deposit) - I have ordered other models recently through major retailers (they’re not available direct) - and regularly use them to purchase models they have in stock, including variously TMC, Hattons, Rails and Kernow. There are no brick and mortar shops anywhere near where I live these days. I’m certainly not going to shy away from direct manufacturer orders as a principle as I suspect this method will continue to be part of the breadth of the sales model for the industry (if other retail is anything to go by). 
 

I have also noticed that some models seemingly ‘commissioned’ by major retailers are now available either via that retailer OR direct from the manufacturer (presumably bypassing the major commissioning retailer) - hopefully that doesn’t affect the major commissioning retailer’s ‘cut’ - the price appears to be the same whichever method is chosen. 

 

This does seem to be trend (purchase direct on line from manufacturer) - however I don’t see the level of ire and acrimony vented on other companies and whilst I can understand retailers getting annoyed with Hornby’s antics, presumably Hornby has only changed this because web site sales are such that they need to pull back on supply to retailers to ensure they can supply all their direct orders - understandable, however annoying - as they are desperately trying to make a profit. 
 

However I just think this is how things are now and as I said earlier in the post - the models I really want, I want guarantee of receiving so web site it is - the alternative is to wait for used sales or hope there will be sales via retailers later (of unsold stock) - that seems unlikely if the models are over-subscribed in the first place. 

 

It will be no different when the PWM project becomes available for order - whichever method (direct or retailer) delivers the model I want, that will be the method I choose - I won’t be buying a version of the model I don’t want, on principle just to support the retailer which is doing that part of the offering. 
 

It’s interesting this web site is little different from other specialised forums (on completely different subjects). There is a vast amount of advice provided to organisations manufacturing and retailing product - much of it very valuable - some not so much - some a little unrealistic - however on one that i get involved with there was once a major spat between some individuals, the owners of the forum and a major manufacturer (and particularly its CEO) - that manufacturer is still operating very successfully some years later, but it did point out on its own website that the forum concerned represented a fraction of 1 per cent of their market in that country (U.K.), and it was really only half a dozen people with axes to grind that caused this - how much the negative publicity created, who knows. 
 

As I say, my approach is as a relatively new re-entrant to railway modelling, but with several friends who have been in it for the long haul - we all have quite different views on buying model railway product. 

The issue being discussed on this thread is not that Hornby are selling direct. The issue is that customers placed orders with retailers (Hornby approved, tier 1 retailers) who subsequently placed these orders with Hornby all in good faith, only for Hornby to turn around and say, months down the line, you’re not getting all those items you ordered (37 for one particular model is used as an example at the start of the thread), you’re getting one.  Oh and by the way, the other 36 customers can buy their models from us direct. 
 

Hornby either want a dealer network or they don’t. But it is seriously bad form to use a dealer network to garner and accept pre-orders only to turn around and say the dealer can’t have the items ordered. 
 

That is what is generating the animosity. 
 

Rapido, Accurascale, Revolution Trains all sell direct and in some cases via approved dealers (shops), but everyone knows up front what the deal is and, as far as I’m aware, none have yet failed to deliver on their pre-orders, neither directly nor through said dealers. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by scottystitch

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

 

Maybe the issue with Hornby is the marketing department is saying "fill your boots!!!!" and someone in manufacturing is later on going "erm actually... " -  slashing allocations is either, a) greed and taking stock to direct to sell knowing something is "hot!" and wanting more of the pie or b) lower production numbers and they don't want to infringe on "their" percentage for direct sales. The MK3 C/S SLEP perhaps being a good example of this, Hornby had a stash of these a little longer after the bigger retailers cleared theirs. 

 

I'm sure a principle of produce X, it costs Y, we keep 40%, 30% direct sale, 10% margin for damages etc and sell 50% to the market, the market asks for what it wants and we allocate it out. 

 

Surely announcing everything on 1 day must benefit this scenario, because (to me anyway!) as a manufacturer you hold all the cards, you know how many you can produce etc.. so allocating via the above margins would work and satisfy everyone. Obviously there are unforeseen circumstances that could occur, but not something that could reduce allocation by 80%  ? Or am I being too logical?

Just logical enough, I reckon 😉 

[adb968008]

Personally I think Hornby is going to be in trouble soon.

I have my opinions on what might be happening behind the scenes thats splaying this out before the customer.

 

Whilst end customers, and retailers are annoyed by not getting what they ordered, lets not forget they are dodging bullets too…

 

1. transfer printing on the Class 91’s

2. WCML destinations on the lner azuma

3. Mis printed logos on 60015

4. Damaged W1’s

5. Bendy A2’s..

6. Dynamic lines mk3’s transfer printing
7. Capacitor size in the APT

8. 31/4 tooling of 31/1

9. Terriers with green gwr coaches

 

to me its a very unpretty picture, and when I game out scenarios most of them don't end well….

I still see lots of class 71’s, K1’s, S15’s, J15’s on sale…

I see lots of “out of fashion” items at high prices… Hungarian class 56 anyone ?

I have to wonder if thats cash stopping POs being written, and down sizing those that are ?

And I have to ask why head to head duplication is a good use of cash ?

i could huff and puff at how unhappy I am, but instead Ive walked from nearly all my Hornby pre-orders. No way am I risking paying high prices for high risk stuff.

 

I vented my spleen on Day 1, when ordering Drax was a farce and found my whole Hornby pre-order plans unwound by Day 3 of 2022’s range.

 

To me theres no way back right now.. I hope someone in Margate is taking one of these class 55’s to Hornbys offices, together with the receipt…

 

And hope that someone there is thinking how they can instill some cultural changes in the organisation to get away from silliness like this…

 

I refer back to this post…

 

Quote

Show me the passion, that puts Watford Junction and Carlilse as destinations in the LNER Azuma and how such comment online motivates ? and finally how that impacts revenue or expenses ?

 

With so much competing personal spend in 2022, Hornby is easy to eject from my plans… 

Without a sales team, are the marketing team taking on the role of listening to feedback ? Or is it a void ?

 

Still dissapearing from retail shelves isn't unique to Hornby but it comes from the same retail management playbook..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61978595
 

But at least you know the tin isnt see through, the beans are the right colour and the content does what it says on the tin.

Retailers imo need to be careful what they wish for, not getting stock might be a blessing… with guff like this is it better on their balance sheet or yours ?..but I know it certainly wont be on my layout.
 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by adb968008

[MidlandRed]

3 hours ago, scottystitch said:

The issue being discussed on this thread is not that Hornby are selling direct. The issue is that customers placed orders with retailers (Hornby approved, tier 1 retailers) who subsequently placed these orders with Hornby all in good faith, only for Hornby to turn around and say, months down the line, you’re not getting all those items you ordered (37 for one particular model is used as an example at the start of the thread), you’re getting one.  Oh and by the way, the other 36 customers can buy their models from us direct. 
 

Hornby either want a dealer network or they don’t. But it is seriously bad form to use a dealer network to garner and accept pre-orders only to turn around and say the dealer can’t have the items ordered. 
 

That is what is generating the animosity. 
 

Rapido, Accurascale, Revolution Trains all sell direct and in some cases via approved dealers (shops), but everyone knows up front what the deal is and, as far as I’m aware, none have yet failed to deliver on their pre-orders, neither directly nor through said dealers. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

 

 

 

 

The knowledge that this has happened in the past (to at least one person I know) is precisely the reason I ordered direct from Hornby - to ensure I get the models I wanted. Not sure if I made that clear but that is the case.

 

I also have sympathy for the retailers not being given a straight story by the particular manufacturer (Hornby) - however several retailers have had plenty of orders for other models from me - just not pre-orders for Hornby. 

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

Retailers imo need to be careful what they wish for, not getting stock might be a blessing… 
 

 

 

IMO, that may unfortunately be no.

To many - i.e. the great unknowing public - model railways are Hornby and nothing else. [*]

Hornby is to model railways, as Hoover is synonymous with vacuum cleaners.  

 

It is the Hornby name that gets people through the shop doors and then they can be introduced to the other companies. Even Bachmann is a relatively unknown name outside of  model railway circles.

 

[*] It's not just the unknowing general public either. Just read some of the chaff on the StudioCanal/Hornby/Titgate stuff on model railway FB groups and it's quite surprising how many thought that SC were playing hardball with Hornby and the licensing rights until it was explained that Rapido have the permission and were already on with Lion/Thunderbolt. "Oh, I didn't know that" is a common reply.

Mention the likes of Revolution, Accurascale and Cavalex and you'll get a blank stare in return.

 

Much to the dislike of many and I will stick my head above the parapet and include myself -  the hobby needs the Hornby name - but not in the current incarnation though.

 

[Dunsignalling]

Reading the litany of Hornby shortcomings a couple of posts back, I'm almost relieved that they seem to have (at least temporarily) given up on new models of Southern Railway/Region steam era prototypes.

 

Hopefully, such defects and the present unpleasantness with the retail trade will be but memories by the time they announce anything I really want.

 

For now, my railway slush fund contains more than enough for Rapido wagons and whatever they and/or Accurascale decide on as their first SR locos. I've even ordered examples of the (for me) wholly "Rule one" 15xx and HR Jones Goods, just 'cos I fancy them, and it's a good while since I've indulged in that kind of behaviour! 

 

Not forgetting being able to afford a few more Bachmann Bulleid coaches than I anticipated and, who knows, we might even see them announce something appropriate to pull them...

 

John

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[GWR-fan]

The last few years have seen all my dollars spent on Hattons pre-owned items with very occasional new item purchases from Rails.  Some years ago I purchased some Hornby concession only weathered Gresley BR teaks to complement other BR teaks that I had and only then available on the Hornby website.  The high postage cost and non-negotiable full pricing killed off any further direct dealings with the company.

 

Covid did see some discount pricing on new Hornby items downunder which I did purchase.  For me the rot set in some years ago when in an attempt to ban grey sales to Australia (and protect or perhaps appease its local dealer/distribution network) the company forbid any UK dealer from selling new Hornby items downunder.  In the main this directive was ignored by the dealers but the bullying left a sour taste in my mouth.  Personally,  if the company falters due its poor mismanagement of its production/distribution network then I say karma settles all scores.  Rails and Hattons do not seem to be financially disadvantaged due not being able to sell newly announced or released Hornby items,  so the bullying has backfired on them.

 

  Hornby is slowly seeing the fate of most dictatorial regimes.  They selfishly thought that they owned the model railway market and like a spoiled little brat they are throwing a tantrum for not getting their own way.  Even the public "apology" (for want of a better term) to Studio Canal shows that they saw no wrong in abusing another company's copyright protection and seemingly grudgingly complied to the minimum with their statement.  They "accepted" their wrong doing but seemingly did not apologise.   Dictatorial regimes do not generally have happy endings.

[Huw Griffiths]

15 hours ago, Chris M said:

Hornby are due to be at The Great Electric Train Show on October 8th & 9th so folk may get a chance to express their views there. I just hope the Hornby Hobbies stand isn't next to my layout!

 

I could imagine some people taking a different line if they discovered that they were "next door" at a major show.

 

Some people might be turning up with popcorn ... .

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Huw Griffiths

[40F]

And to cap it all I believe that there is anther series of trumpet blowing sorry Hornby`s Model World or what ever it was called scheduled for later this year. They would be far better taking a long hard look at themselves and getting on with solving all the problems. 

[JSpencer]

14 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

I must confess that i haven't read every post, but there does seem to be an elephant in the room of a company which uses its dealers to collect orders and thus guide them to determine how much to produce.   And of course, Hornby are not the only company that operate this model.

 

But Hornby seems to be the only one that then cuts off that supply to those same dealers, yet supply to its own internet shop seems robust.

 

 

I feel that if Hornby were using dealers orders to guide them to how much to produce then there would not be a supply problem to the dealers.

Instead I feel that they are ordering based on averages from passed numbers of things sold. The problem with an average is that you end up often not producing enough (Ivatt version of the Stanier pacific, first run of Pecketts) - = missed opportunity OR producing too much, = sudden desire to offload them on the shops.

They are missing someone with a little gut instinct to see beyond averages. Or they need to put into place a process that allows them to get a rapid gripe on the numbers required (Rapido has an order deadline for example, which they probably use to tweek the final figures produced). 

 

I feel that their online sales probably require X amount of sales to keep all the infrastructure they put into place to run it. Thus we see shops being rationed as they seek to fulfil and sell direct.

 

Your wonderful observation about dealers collecting orders, driving people to Hornby only for dealers not being able to fulfill them and customers having to buy direct.... is of course totally unfair to the dealers whom have used their time and resources to promote them. Ultimately this will bite Hornby as a sale of just one loco won't motivate dealers to push them to want to sell Hornby when a dealer can better use their resources to sell other manufacturers products whom they are confident they will get stock to match orders.

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

I could imagine some people taking a different line if they discovered that they were "next door" at a major show.

 

Some people might be turning up with popcorn ... .

 

 

Maybe An opportunity to sell seats in front of the stand, and offering a cinema dining experience.

 

:-)

 

Seriously I hope Hornby don’t pull out of supporting a show, but I do suspect there maybe a little more than average angst, though I suspect the marketing machine will gloss that over.

I wonder if the TV cameras will be coming with them ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, 40F said:

And to cap it all I believe that there is anther series of trumpet blowing sorry Hornby`s Model World or what ever it was called scheduled for later this year. They would be far better taking a long hard look at themselves and getting on with solving all the problems. 

I've always referred to it as 'The Hornby Show' but now I'm no beginning to wonder if it will contain the ultimate parallel event with 'The Truman Show' and someone will bang their head against a wall and find that it's door into the real world of competition and a changing marketplace.

[64F]

4 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

I feel that if Hornby were using dealers orders to guide them to how much to produce then there would not be a supply problem to the dealers.

Instead I feel that they are ordering based on averages from passed numbers of things sold. The problem with an average is that you end up often not producing enough (Ivatt version of the Stanier pacific, first run of Pecketts) - = missed opportunity OR producing too much, = sudden desire to offload them on the shops.

They are missing someone with a little gut instinct to see beyond averages. Or they need to put into place a process that allows them to get a rapid gripe on the numbers required (Rapido has an order deadline for example, which they probably use to tweek the final figures produced). 

 

 

The obvious solution to balancing production against demand is to be doing everything they can to encourage pre-orders, and then only producing what is ordered plus a little extra as contingency.  Dealers who want stock would include this in their own orders.  However, Hornby seem either not to do that or they are terrible at it.

 

As the dealers offer discounts from list price and the serious modellers who do most of the pre-ordering are well aware of that, surely there must be far more pre-orders placed through dealers than via the Hornby website.  Cutting off supply to the dealers late in the day as they have done last year and again this year will not result in everyone who had pre-ordered switching to direct sales because some people will change their minds about the purchase or resent the inconvenience and additional cost, so Hornby's actions have only served to undermine the relationship between pre-order information and actual demand.

 

Also, Hornby's repeated (and inexplicable) failure to properly describe their forthcoming products properly suppresses the number of pre-orders because people have to wait to find out what they are actually producing.  Case in point the re-tooled Black Fives announced six months ago (and not now due until next Autumn).   Does "Era 5 1956-68" mean early crest or late crest?  Does "Era 4" mean British Railways lettering or early crest?   Presumably Hornby know their intentions because they have selected the locomotive numbers so they have presumably done their prototype research, but why on earth do they not reveal the liveries to modellers?  The quality of information on their website is generally awful, with lots of incorrectly described items (see the Caprotti Black Five page which still has a blurb describing the BR Standard 5).

Edited July 6, 2022 by 64F