The future of Model railway Exhibitions

[Chamby]

I attend a model railway club in Cornwall, where there is a debate currently in progress about the changing face of model railway exhibitions, and what it means for us as a club.  Before Covid, we held an annual exhibition that was well attended and brought in extra funds for the club, we also have a large club layout (30x12 feet) that has been regularly exhibited both locally and has been shown at most major national events.  We decided over the last couple of years that we should start on a new build layout, of similar size - to offer something new to 'the circuit' - but are now unsure if we are doing the right thing.  A number of new factors have come into play recently:

 

#  Our nearest model shop with a national presence is no longer attending local exhibitions.  This seems to be part of a wider trend.

 

#  Our large club layout's future bookings have dropped dramatically since Covid.   Clubs seem to be holding back on larger layouts, with their associated costs for several operators and van hire, in favour of smaller layouts with lower overheads.  

 

#  Other clubs have commented on a reduced appetite from ageing members for taking their own larger club layouts out to exhibit.  A number of authors on this forum also have indicated that their days of lugging large layouts to exhibit, are drawing to a close.

 

#  The cost of living crisis seems to be putting a dampener on the usual fees for exhibition entry, and impacts upon attending trader revenues.

 

For myself, I have attended Warley for over a decade now, but am having second thoughts this year... the £20 entrance fee, £17 car parking, as well as increased travel costs... we are all feeling it, I suspect.

 

So, a question to exhibition managers and club committees: Is the time of large club exhibition layouts now over?  And as a club that has thrived on exhibiting elsewhere, what type of layouts will you be seeking for your own events in future?

[Barry O]

smaller layouts may seem to cost less but.. in reality they don't. our layout is 30' by 12'. Replace it with say 4  off 8' by 3 feet layouts each with 2 operators who need to stay

 

So.. with our usual crew of 6 operators it means 1 van plus 1 car, 3 bedrooms (so 6 off accommodation days)  6 lunches (so 12 for a two day show.)

 

4 off smaller layouts -  4 cars plus 8 operators (so 4 bedrooms giving 8 of accommodation nights), 8 lunches (so 16 for a two day show).

 

 

The big item is van hire.. and this is now returning to a bit of normality as new vans are acquired and insurance costs stabilise. 

 

The next biggest concern is accommodation costs - the smaller layout may be more expensive to accommodate.

 

As for age.. yep that is a growing concern but our club rooms have a goods lift to get baseboards etc to/from the van and clubrooms

 

SO.. small isn't necessarily "cheap" and layout design can help to get round the aging club population problems.

 

Our show has a mix of large and small layouts - it helps teh Manager to fit layouts into the Hall.

 

Baz

 

 

[Geep7]

I agree with Barry O, the really small layouts operated by 2 operators would actual appear to be counter productive. I think what will become more common (if not already) are the medium sized layouts, say in the 16 feet length x 2-3ft range, operated by 2 operators that can fit in a family SUV.

[Neil]

An interesting question but I'm not sure what the answer is. I think it's one of those things where only time will tell. My own take is that where Covid was the determining factor in future it will be the cost of living crisis/inflation partly how it affects the expense of holding an exhibition but mainly the impact on door receipts. Layout size will be pretty irrelevant if exhibitions aren't viable.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Neil

[PaulRhB]

My big layout is 34x11ft in its entirety and needs three cars and 6 - 8 operators for 44ft frontage. Three 8ft long layouts give you say 30ft of frontage and 6-9 operators so there’s not really any difference. What possibly needs trimming is some peoples expectations to bring 4-6 operators for an 8ft layout or 12 or so for a 20ft one, and yes we’ve had those requests 😉 

Designing layouts to avoid van hire where possible is great but then we wouldn’t get Gresley Beat and Copenhagen Fields type layouts. These monsters are dreams for many but it is important to have them I and you can spread the costs to have a feature layout by having some local ones that are cheap to host. That gives everyone value for money if people overall aren’t greedy with expenses. I know several large layouts costs that are subsidised by the club or group too by borrowing vans from members. 
It may require some reining back during the recession but that doesn’t mean stopping is a good idea 😃

 

[Barry O]

25 minutes ago, Neil said:

An interesting question but I'm not sure what the answer is. I think it's one of those things where only time will tell. My own take is that where Covid was the determining factor in future it will be the cost of living crisis/inflation partly how it affects the expense of holding an exhibition but mainly the impact on door receipts. Layout size will be pretty irrelevant if exhibitions aren't viable.

 

the big costs at a show are hall hire followed by layout costs. Lots of small layouts are on a par with a larger layout so viability is getting a balance so layout size does come into play.

 

Baz

[RedgateModels]

At Mansfield we are blessed with a free venue - but then half the proceeds is donated to the venue. We try to make sure that the fees charged to traders balance out the exhibitors expenses so that the door take/tombola etc are all profits.

 

As it's a charity show we can't run to accommodation but I have enough in my "budget" for one large layout with van hire which sits in the main lounge area and is generally OO and roundy roundy. Due to the lack of accommodation these tend to be fairly local and can be a bit of a headache to organise. Thankfully for this year and next the Elizabethan have come up trumps for us.

The rest of the layouts are made up from "club" regulars from me, Keith and the now retired vicar plus a few other smaller layouts. We have a band of very willing exhibitors who come time and time again with different layouts.

 

2022 was a very good show, with a very good door take especially on the Saturday, which was a relief after missing a year due to COVID.

[Legend]

Interesting . I missed Model Rail Scotland , through having Covid on the day , and Perth  because I was on holiday  , and so attended Ayr exhibition (which was actually in Troon) and thoroughly enjoyed it .  To me it seemed just as busy as in previous years and there was a good range of layouts and traders . So I'm thinking no sign of the demise of local exhibitions up on the Scottish Circuit .

 

I also came away with leaflets  for forthcoming exhibitions in Gourock, Falkirk and Paisley , all before Christmas. I think Cathcart may also be on .  So exhibition scene seems to be back with a flourish here . Will it be affected by cost of living crisis ?  Well I think these smaller/medium sized shows are pretty good value at £6/£7 . Where else can you get an hour or two entertainment for that ? With the demise of local model shops they are also about the only place you can browse models/ books.  I think other things will give way , like a brand new £220 9F  before I get to cutting back on exhibitions . Still a good day out , even the run down the coast to Troon was enjoyable .

 

Agree cost of larger exhibitions may be an issue as you usually need car parking too . Model Rail Scotland at SECC is a case in point. 

 

 

[MarcD]

As someone who is in the process of recycling a large 22ft ogauge layout into several smaller ones. I have had a mixture of responses to my bookings for local shows. Most want something small and new each year and one was a little disappointed when I told them that my large layout wasn't available any more. 

My reasons for going small is  was unable to operate the big layout on my own. I used to operate the layout with my father but he is not able any more some hand has been forced.

I did do Guildex this year where there wasn't any "Big" layouts and there were a number of people who did grumble about that. But is this a reflection on the direction of the hobby? IE smaller can be constructed by one person who doesn't have to do what everyone else in a club wants to do. In my younger days my local club did Blue diesel in 00, Swiss in HO and US railroad in N none of which flots my boat so I didn't stay long. 

Marc

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

For myself, I have attended Warley for over a decade now, but am having second thoughts this year... the £20 entrance fee, £17 car parking, as well as increased travel costs... we are all feeling it, I suspect.

 

£20 is the same as the cheapest ticket to see Hull City vs Luton Town. You have to drive to, and park at, and eat and drink at, both. The stadium capacity is 25,586 - more than will attend Warley. Even if it's not full, I bet they get at least the same amount as will arrive at the NEC. 

 

For their £20, football fans will get 90 minutes (plus stoppage time) or entertainment. Warley visitors can spend 8 hours there. Let's knock the idea that model railway shows are "expensive" on the head.

 

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

smaller layouts may seem to cost less but.. in reality they don't. our layout is 30' by 12'. Replace it with say 4  off 8' by 3 feet layouts each with 2 operators who need to stay

 

So.. with our usual crew of 6 operators it means 1 van plus 1 car, 3 bedrooms (so 6 off accommodation days)  6 lunches (so 12 for a two day show.)

 

4 off smaller layouts -  4 cars plus 8 operators (so 4 bedrooms giving 8 of accommodation nights), 8 lunches (so 16 for a two day show).

 

Barry is right. Cost per foot of frontage, many large layouts are cheaper than small ones. A micro still needs two operators who need accomodation and food, even if they can travel in a car.

 

[TheQ]

Hall hire is the big thing.. Our club Big show has gone, because the hall we used to use has been withdrawn.. Church use only now..

Trying to find alternatives is difficult, it looks like we'll have two small shows each year in village halls instead.

Unfortunately living in coastal Norfolk 2/3 of our area is north sea, that means less halls available, less members and less visitors to a show.

So it is easier for the club to run smaller shows, but that means there is less leeway in the budget for a multi-crewed layout.

 

One 30ft layout takes a significant chunk of the display area of a village hall. So our club is working a layout of about 15 X 12..

Traders are less likely to want to come to a small show... So they are not going to subsidise the show by hiring space..

I suspect the numbers of Big shows run by clubs will reduce, our aging memberships, and the increasing costs will put paid to that. 

An increasing (slowly) number of the Big shows will be run by the magazines..

 

From my own point of view I'm working on one man operation for my future layouts, Just a stand in will be needed for breaks..

 

Going to the rugby scrum that is  Warley looks increasingly expensive, 175 miles each way probably 10 gallons of fuel . In all you are looking at £150 for the day including tickets an a muggacoffee or two., Somewhat more expensive than Norwich City at £35 for a good seat..

Edited September 20, 2022 by TheQ

[cp409067]

*

May I make a simple point about the difference between one large layout and a number of smaller layouts that might occupy the same space at an exhibition?

 

And before doing so I declare an interest in that -

 

(i)  I generally have a preference for smaller layouts, and

 

(ii)  I have for many years been building and exhibiting small layouts of my own.

 

The discussion thus far seems to have addressed the cost differences between a single large and several smaller layouts. Is there not also the INTEREST difference?

 

To put it simply consider the following imaginary situation.

 

Option 1: a large main line layout in "OO" where  express trains can thunder through the scene and at other times lengthy goods workings can potter.

 

Option 2: four separate small layouts.

(a)   An Edwardian branch line terminus modelled in "P4".

(b)   A Germanic mountainous scene modelled in "HO".

(c)   An "O" gauge "micro layout" depicting a dockside.

(d)   A "OO9" layout depicting a small through station with branch line to a quarry.

 

If I love main line standard gauge railways the large layout will perhaps find me in my "seventh heaven". But if I have not this enthusiasm I will be bored and disappointed.

 

However, if instead there are four smaller layouts is there not the possibility that at least one of them will have an appeal, and that I might also appreciate (say) the quality of the modelling of another even if the subject matter is not to my taste.

 

*****

 

I am not suggesting that large layouts should not be included in exhibitions - au contraire a mixture of large and small would seem to be a good idea.

 

But I am suggesting that the relative value of large versus small layouts needs to considered in more than financial terms.

 

 

CP

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by cp409067

[08221]

3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

A micro still needs two operators who need accomodation and food, even if they can travel in a car.

 

While I fully agree with your points on cost Phil (although it’s only £6 to get in to watch Uttoxeter Town - excellent value and good beer in the clubhouse!), I have exhibited several of my small layouts at exhibitions in the West Midlands on my own. I get someone from the hosting club to take over for ‘office visits’, meal breaks etc. and I never charge expenses as I get pleasure from exhibiting and nattering with fellow enthusiasts 

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, cp409067 said:

Option 1: a large main line layout in "OO" where  express trains can thunder through the scene and at other times lengthy goods workings can potter.

 

Option 2: four separate small layouts.

(a)   An Edwardian branch line terminus modelled in "P4".

(b)   A Germanic mountainous scene modelled in "HO".

(c)   An "O" gauge "micro layout" depicting a dockside.

(d)   A "OO9" layout depicting a small through station with branch line to a quarry.

Option 3 

All of them, so there’s variety to please everyone. 
 

3 minutes ago, cp409067 said:

But I am suggesting that the relative value of large versus small layouts needs to considered in more than financial terms.

Precisely, variety means more chance of finding something inspiring too and possibly a little from each layout. 

[NIK]

Hi,

 

I think selecting layouts for an exhibition is a complex business at the best of times. If it's an exhibition aimed at locals and at enthusiasts then the selection of big layouts can require extra consideration.

 

Big layouts with lots of movement please many locals but if you can only get one big layout and there is a problem with the operation then it can put a dampener on proceedings.

 

Big layouts that are known via the national model press and known to work well tend to be from further away as the pool of them is small. So hotel use is more likely and for more people than for smaller layouts.

 

If you can pick only small layouts that come from say an hour and a half away it may be possible to avoid van hire and hotels all together.

 

A problem with small layouts is often there is only one operator at a time and if someone asks them a question train movement can cease.

 

I think a benefit of small layouts is that they are more available. If a big layout drops out some shuffling of the plans and a call to locals, ex member and members can often fill the gap with smaller layouts.

 

As to the weight of big layouts when my club approved a new big layout the decision was made to use a lightweight but stiff ply design - very expensive materials wise but it should maximise the number of people who can help move the layout.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[Legend]

I do like to see large layouts . Things I cant achieve myself , although the standard of operating is key . I can sit and watch a yard being shunted and lose myself . 

[Phil Parker]

56 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Going to the rugby scrum that is  Warley looks increasingly expensive, 175 miles each way probably 10 gallons of fuel . In all you are looking at £150 for the day including tickets an a muggacoffee or two., Somewhat more expensive than Norwich City at £35 for a good seat..

 

Take more people in your car - 2.5 gallons each (call it £20) makes the day look a lot cheaper. Split the parking costs, and the overall bill won't be much more than Norwich City, which I assume you walk to.

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

39 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

£20 is the same as the cheapest ticket to see Hull City vs Luton Town. You have to drive to, and park at, and eat and drink at, both. The stadium capacity is 25,586 - more than will attend Warley. Even if it's not full, I bet they get at least the same amount as will arrive at the NEC. 

 

For their £20, football fans will get 90 minutes (plus stoppage time) or entertainment. Warley visitors can spend 8 hours there. Let's knock the idea that model railway shows are "expensive" on the head.

 

 

Football is a good example. Most 'day out' events will cost similar or more (Madame Tussauds costs £37 on the door). They also cost at least as much to get there. Even if ticket prices could be halved, the difference to the overall cost for the day out would be less significant.

£17 to park the car at the NEC sounds a bit steep, but Birmingham International is well connected, so why not park somewhere else & use the train?

 

The exhibitions give us a chance to see other people's ideas & also bring together many specialist retailers & manufacturers. Where else would you get this?

 

It is also worth remembering where the money goes: To the venues , layouts & most importantly to the organisers. Whether these are clubs, societies or publishers, they are all part of the hobby

[D9020 Nimbus]

Where a lot of the layouts are local you often see the same layouts at several shows in the area. This makes it less attractive to visit as many exhibitions. In the past I've seen the same layout at two local  exhibitions a fortnight apart. In the days when the Peterborough show was in October and I used to visit both it and Doncaster there was often a fair amount of repetition too.

 

In the past I've often felt that the York show tended to offer a lot of variety, giving me the chance to see layouts I couldn’t see in the north-east. I don't have a car so need to factor in the cost of travel, and the difficulty of getting there. York is generally straightforward to reach (from Newcastle) except if there is engineering work on — given it's at Easter that's always possible. It is more costly than it should be, though, since the bus service to the venue has been drastically cut back since Mike Cook passed.

 

Doncaster is fairly easy to reach too. And there's a reasonable free bus service to the venue. Moreover you can see whether the bus is there or not from inside the venue. You couldn’t at Peterborough, and the last time I went I had to wait 45 minutes for a supposedly 20-minute service.

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

It is more costly than it should be, though, since the bus service to the venue has been drastically cut back since Mike Cook passed.

 

Doncaster is fairly easy to reach too. And there's a reasonable free bus service to the venue.

 

Shuttle bus services are interesting - why should they be free? Our club laid on a bus for a few years and it mostly travelled empty, whilst absorbing money that could be used for layouts. Essentially, those who drove, subsidised those who took the bus.

 

I say this as someone who loves public transport, but talking to railway modellers, I know a lot who to whom the idea of setting foot on a real train is a horridying prospect. Never undertsood why, but it is the case.

[Geep7]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

A micro still needs two operators who need accomodation and food, even if they can travel in a car.

 

Having done a 2-day exhibition on my own with a 16ft long Southern Region terminus layout, I can honestly say, you definitely need a backup operator. Unfortunately / fortunately it was the show of the club I belong too, so I could ask for people to mind the layout when I needed to pop away for a comfort break, however it also meant my usual second operator (my father) wasn't available as he was chief steward that year. It ended up being a very exhausting weekend.

[EmporiaSub]

10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Shuttle bus services are interesting - why should they be free? 

I believe you have to have registered the service to be able to charge?
The bus museum I’m an active member of runs shuttle services once a month, and we don’t charge as there’s too much involved to do so.

[TheQ]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Take more people in your car - 2.5 gallons each (call it £20) makes the day look a lot cheaper. Split the parking costs, and the overall bill won't be much more than Norwich City, which I assume you walk to.

 

 

I don't go to Norwich City or any other kickball, watching 22 overpaid men running around on plastic has no interest at all..  My interest in sport is sailing... and that has been cheaper than the MRC membership over the last 20 years..  Though it will be more expensive this year as I need new sails....

 

As for public transport.. There isn't any.. I have to travel by car the 10 miles to the nearest railway station (no buses available to get there) and the trains cost more than driving to most places..

If I say wanted to go to Norwich show , it's a mile and a half walk to the nearest bus stop,  2 or 3 hours to Norwich depending on the route and the number of changes of bus. then another half hour back out to where the show is.. The total distance by car? 21 miles..

 

and then...

there won't be a bus that day to take me back home..

 

 

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, TheQ said:

I don't go to Norwich City or any other kickball, watching 22 overpaid men running around on plastic has no interest at all..  My interest in sport is sailing... and that has been cheaper than the MRC membership over the last 20 years..  Though it will be more expensive this year as I need new sails....

 

As for public transport.. There isn't any.. I have to travel by car the 10 miles to the nearest railway station (no buses available to get there) and the trains cost more than driving to most places..

If I say wanted to go to Norwich show , it's a mile and a half walk to the nearest bus stop,  2 or 3 hours to Norwich depending on the route and the number of changes of bus. then another half hour back out to where the show is.. The total distance by car? 21 miles..

 

and then...

there won't be a bus that day to take me back home..

 

 

 

My point was that you quoted a price for the football that didn't include travel, but did include the travel element for Warley. Level playing field etc. please.

 

However, it doesn't negate the fact that sharing a car and splitting the costs would make a difference. Perhaps it's time for a railwya modeller car sharing service?

[Pete the Elaner]

Thinking of club shows, how many smaller ones have cancelled this year's because they need to be planned several months in advance & things were less certain then?

Venues now have higher running costs. Accommodation & transport also costs more, which has increased expenses.

If visitors have less disposable income, then shows are something they could easily decide to give up.

 

Where does this leave clubs? Attendances are down at ours to a level where members subs barely cover the cost of our premises, but we still pay for layout purchases & I think the club should always do this (& I am club treasurer too). I doubt we are the only ones in this position. Many clubs benefit from their show's profits & I have heard of some clubs folding in the last year or 2.