The future of Model railway Exhibitions

[Barry O]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Club shows do not make big profits for the organisers to buy themselves new TVs or spend it down the pub. I have helped at many shows & never been paid anything, not would I expect to. I have occasionally been given some expense money but this has never actually covered the cost of my expenses.

Any money made will help to keep clubs alive by helping to keep subs low while also hopefully providing funds for building & maintaining layouts.

Many of us learned a lot & made friends from clubs, so I don't begrudge any exhibition profits from being put into club funds.

Agreed but.. clubs don't make "profits" as HMRC like profits. We may, on occasion, suffer an "excess of income over expenditure" which goes towards us delivering our charity work.

 

Baz

[PaulRhB]

12 hours ago, 060 said:

I do not charge for any expenses, petrol or accommodation, as the exhibition is for my enjoyment of the hobby.  If I go out somewhere for the day, I either take a packed lunch and a drink with me or I buy it from a local source. I do not expect exhibitions to provide this to me for free and don’t see why they should. 

Ok very generous of you :) but do you travel hundreds of miles to do shows for free on say 10 - 15 weekends a year? Quite a few I know have done shows from Scotland to Exeter and some are out with their layout around the country over 20 times in a year. 

They couldn’t afford to do that all at their own expense so you’d see far less variety at shows. I’m involved in two shows and bringing in layouts from further afield is an important consideration in making a show attractive and you factor that into the entry fee. 
When we take our layouts out to shows we certainly don’t make money, we don’t charge for the lighting rigs, curtains, vehicle maintenance or the evening meals on Friday and Saturday so we are putting our money in too anyway. 
If asked to demonstrate for other events you also usually get expenses so it’s not unique to model railways. Different if you’re trading as with our hobby. 
I do our club show at my own expense and that involves quite a lot of back and forth trips plus various ancillary expenses plus I’ve done two other local shows that support charities for free too on a few occasions. I no longer hire a van as the current layouts were designed to fit into cars. 
However I wouldn’t travel hundreds of miles to Warley or Nottingham etc and pay £400+ in hotels  when they are running it primarily for the club albeit often supporting some charities too. 
 

The current system was well established and worked. It’s not exhibitors expenses that are causing the main problems. It’s the venue availability and hire that’s vastly increased. The two shows I’m involved in have seen one long term venue now unavailable as they only want weekly hires despite no weekly hire taking virtually the whole school. The other has doubled in price meaning another £1000 needs to be found which is on average + £2 on every ticket on this years figures. 
 

Generosity is great if you can afford it but there are some gems out there we wouldn’t see very often or at all if there were no expenses 😉

[009 micro modeller]

A lot of good points raised in this thread so far, so I’ll just add my own recent experience if I may as it relates to some of what has already been said. The most recent exhibition I did was in August this year, a medium sized show held at a secondary school. I got invited to this based on the exhibition manager seeing my layouts at a show in 2019, and the invitation was just deferred for the two years in which Covid prevented them from running the exhibition. The show in 2019 was one that I had also done the year before, and I was invited to that because my ‘club’ (or 009 Society area group in my case) had been emailed by a new exhibition manager looking for layouts reasonably close by.

 

To get back to the August 2022 show, I was paid expenses, although in my case this was just the cost of petrol to get to and from the venue on the day. There were a few bits and pieces that I bought to prepare for the exhibition but I’d probably have had to do this at some point anyway. I’m not sure if they had any exhibitors from further afield who had to have hotels paid for. For lunch we were all given a lunch voucher to use with the caterers - the value of this would have been enough to have a reasonable lunch but I decided to pay some of my own money as well and have a bit of extra food, which wasn’t a problem. We were also given a tea and coffee voucher, but as there was also an exhibitors’ room with tea and coffee where you could help yourself I didn’t actually use the voucher in the end.

 

The variety of layouts was good, in terms of both size and subject matter, although there didn’t seem to be many massive tailchasers. I agree with the earlier suggestion that a variety of smaller layouts is generally more interesting than a single large one. I usually take a selection of small micro layouts, and this is also good for exhibitions as they are paying me the same expenses but getting more variety - I started doing this when I was invited to Shepton Mallet (a long way from where I live) with a box file layout, and realised that it would be a better use of my time and the organisers’ money if I brought along some other layouts as well.

 

It’s also the first exhibition I’ve done since I started working in museum visitor experience, which has made me think more about how I do model railway exhibitions as a lot of the skills are the same. So now I prefer to stand, ready to talk to visitors and answer questions, and avoid things like eating, looking at phone etc. while actually operating the layout. This is easier when I am only displaying the layouts that have automatic operation, as I was on this occasion. For the exhibition in August I followed the same pattern I do at work of having a longer break for lunch and then a shorter one later on. I was fortunate to have a relief operator to allow for this. In theory (especially with automatic operation) the layouts only need to be ‘supervised’ rather than ‘operated’, which could be done by someone from the organising club rather than someone attending with me. However, it is probably better to have someone who is familiar with the layouts and can give informed answers to questions from visitors (in the same way that agency staff working in museums are generally not quite as good as regular staff, as they usually don’t know as much about the collections or how to fix things when they go wrong).

[009 micro modeller]

On 20/09/2022 at 12:27, Chamby said:

Other clubs have commented on a reduced appetite from ageing members for taking their own larger club layouts out to exhibit.

This also applies to the clubs organising shows. I understand this was partly the reason for the demise of NG South West a few years ago, and more recently ExpoNG, though the latter was also because of the venue finally being redeveloped and uncertainty about what else would be available and when.

 

In my own narrow gauge group we used to run a small open day/exhibition with a mixture of our own layouts and some guest ones. The group member mainly responsible for the show sadly passed away a few years ago; we continued for a couple more years but currently we don’t really collectively have the time and energy to devote to organising it. As with other groups, Covid forced a break and a bit of a rethink. I remember also that when we discussed future options, one aspect that came up was that we would prefer to return to a more low-key open day featuring mostly group members’ own layouts, rather than the large exhibition it had sort of grown into. The member who had previously organised had also been able to hire the hall more cheaply than we now can as a group, meaning that we had to look at other venues.

 

Mention of catering is also interesting. One of the issues my group had was that we no longer had anyone associated with the group with an up to date food safety certificate to the appropriate level (from memory I think previously the wife of one of the group members had this and organised the catering, with support on the day from group members who weren’t operating layouts). I was confused by this, as at around the same time I was organising a fundraising thing for the volunteering project I was involved with at university, and we were allowed to sell homemade baked goods without this as long as we complied with hygiene and allergy regulations. However, I suspect it may depend on a combination of factors related to the type of food, whether you ‘sell’ or ‘ask for donations’, venue insurance requirements etc. We looked into sending a couple of members at a time on a course to get the appropriate certificate but this was a bit impractical and expensive, as was the option of having external commercial catering. I suppose for exhibitors’ lunches we could, if necessary, have just bought a selection of prepackaged sandwiches etc. but there was a feeling that we needed to be able to provide food for visitors to buy as well, or at least snacks and drinks. I wonder if anyone here has any opinions on whether catering of some kind is a ‘must have’ for model railway shows? Certainly for many specialist NG shows of this type they are in fairly small places with people travelling from further afield, so personally I think it is better to have something.

 

Our current plan is probably to hold a kind of mini exhibition of our own layouts, in a room at a local heritage railway. I understand this will probably be free for people to come and see, and that we will also be using the space free of charge. The railway already has an on-site café so catering is taken care of. We’ve actually done something similar before and it worked very well, so the only possible issue now seems to be the loss of income, which is sometimes useful to subsidise hall hire for our regular meetings…

[LNERandBR]

Catering is the moneymaker. Even though we have lots of exhibitor lunches to provide over the two days ours at the Boston Show still makes a profit that helps the rest of the event break even. Offering drinks and light refreshments. However, it only does so if you can saff it with volunteers some venus won't allow this or will have their own catering outlets.

 

A hygiene certificate is a must. However, you don't need everyone in the catering area to have one. I forget if there's a certain number or not but I know we have 2 people with certificates and up to 3 other helpers. My understanding is it's an online course but I wasn't involved with organising it.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, LNERandBR said:

A hygiene certificate is a must. However, you don't need everyone in the catering area to have one. I forget if there's a certain number or not but I know we have 2 people with certificates and up to 3 other helpers. My understanding is it's an online course but I wasn't involved with organising it.

Yes, my question was why we apparently need it for something like this, but I didn’t for a fundraiser selling homemade cakes etc. (where they’re still made rather than bought, albeit pre-prepared and not cooked on site). Although if it’s more to do with having a certificated person to supervise the whole thing that’s probably answered my question.

 

1 hour ago, LNERandBR said:

Catering is the moneymaker. Even though we have lots of exhibitor lunches to provide over the two days ours at the Boston Show still makes a profit that helps the rest of the event break even. Offering drinks and light refreshments. However, it only does so if you can saff it with volunteers some venus won't allow this or will have their own catering outlets.

This is true, and as I recall we did generally make a reasonable profit from the catering, even with traders latterly also getting a free lunch.

 

While less relevant for village hall type venues, I can understand why larger venues have these restrictions. As well as the possible insurance implications of volunteer or other external staffing, they will often have signed an exclusive contract with a catering services company (although in the case of somewhere like Warley is this more likely to be several companies?). Other events venues I’ve seen have an approved list of caterers they generally work with…

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

Catering is the moneymaker. Even though we have lots of exhibitor lunches to provide over the two days ours at the Boston Show still makes a profit that helps the rest of the event break even. Offering drinks and light refreshments. However, it only does so if you can saff it with volunteers some venus won't allow this or will have their own catering outlets.

 

A hygiene certificate is a must. However, you don't need everyone in the catering area to have one. I forget if there's a certain number or not but I know we have 2 people with certificates and up to 3 other helpers. My understanding is it's an online course but I wasn't involved with organising it.

Some venues won't permit the use of their kitchen facilities on H&S grounds. Others, as you point out, require that their onsite catering department provide the food and drink, something they are often incapable of doing properly in addition to their normal workload (this seems to apply especially to leisure centres). It is particularly a problem for larger shows where visitors may attend for most of the day and would like a "proper" lunch and where exhibitors are there for two long days and appreciate getting some decent sustenance.

[Jol Wilkinson]

An interesting discussion with no obvious answers to the topic.

 

As already pointed out, the financial/economic future is going to have a significant impact on venue costs, exhibitors and traders' expenses as well as on modellers who enjoy visiting shows. So it is likely that that we will see a reduction in the number of shows and the number of people attending them.

 

Knowing how to best manage these difficulties will depend on the type of show. Major national/regional shows (the NEC, York, the Warners shows and some others who consider themselves in this category) will face different issues to the Scale/gauge Society shows (GOG, ExpoEM, Scaleforum, 2mm) or the local club show. Likewise, traders, whose stand rent does much to contribute to the show organisers costs, will have to consider where their money is most effectively spent and may, as some already have, withdraw from some exhibitions.

 

Personally, I hope that the Society shows continue strongly, especially ExpoEM and Scaleforum, as I am a member of both Societies, appreciate the modelling on display, can talk to knowledgeable and experienced demonstrators, readily buy the items that I want and enjoy meeting friends and others with a shared interest. Local shows rarely provide the last three of those four criteria, while the major national/regional shows are too skewed towards the RTR retailers to be able to fulfil my modelling purchases (which explains why I usually don't go to them).

 

Hence the challenge for show organisers is to understand the customers want/preferences and tailor their offering to that. A local show may need to concentrate on family visitors to create more revenue and hence, may need to promote their show more heavily in the local media to attract the non-modelling audience. The national/regional shows have a different challenge, which is to attract more of the modelling fraternity, which may mean expanding the types of layouts on display to cover wider model railway interests  i.e not just 00, N, 50's onwards, etc. The Society shows will need to do more to increase the appeal to modellers outside of their own membership but are interested in moving on from using solely RTR models to making their own models with the wider variety of models available from the kit producers.

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Some venues won't permit the use of their kitchen facilities on H&S grounds. Others, as you point out, require that their onsite catering department provide the food and drink, something they are often incapable of doing properly in addition to their normal workload (this seems to apply especially to leisure centres). It is particularly a problem for larger shows where visitors may attend for most of the day and would like a "proper" lunch and where exhibitors are there for two long days and appreciate getting some decent sustenance.

And often the venues’ own catering can be of variable quality, depending on which venue it is. For instance, comments were always made about ExpoNG with advice to use the bakery in Swanley town instead - personally I actually thought the café next to the swimming pool there was OK, the smaller one within the actual exhibition area not so much perhaps.

 

While it is ‘on-site’ it can be sub-contracted, and thus there’s perhaps even more pressure on the venue owners not to introduce competition for their contracted caterers, who may have been given an ‘exclusive’ contract to provide catering at the site. They may also have an (entirely reasonable) organisational policy that they will not replace paid staff with volunteers, which I suppose it could be argued is technically breached by allowing volunteers to run catering for an event, even if that’s not really the sort of situation that such policies are intended for. Lots of museum cafés are run under contract rather than directly, and I wouldn’t be surprised if events venues and leisure centres follow the same model. I’d hope that this wouldn’t apply to visitors individually bringing along their own sandwiches to eat rather than buying them, and of course it would be ridiculous if it did, but I can also see how the exhibition organisers independently providing exhibitors’ lunches en masse might be perceived differently.

 

As you point out, there’s also a difference between a leisure centre where the café is always open and ends up with a bigger workload on event days, and venues where the café is in the event halls and is only open when an event is on. I did an exhibition at a preserved railway once where the on-site café (also run commercially under contract) was clearly unable to cope quickly with the extra demand from exhibitors and visitors.

 

I still think for giving exhibitors a free lunch the best option is to use vouchers to be redeemed with the caterers, although this doesn’t solve the problem of venues providing overpriced catering for general visitors and not offering the option for the organising club to do it (often more cheaply) themselves (thus also denying the club the opportunity to make money from catering).

 

Interestingly, the exhibition I did earlier this year had catering provided by a van outside the front of the exhibition hall. As an exhibitor I thought the food provided was excellent and I have no complaints, and if I’d been a visitor paying for the full cost of my lunch I’d have been just as happy. However, I might be missing something but I can’t see how the organising club can have made any money from this arrangement as surely, if anything, they will have had to pay the caterer to turn up. The venue was a school; at other exhibitions held in schools or colleges I’ve often seen catering provided in the canteen by the usual staff, but I gather this would not have worked for this show as it was held during the school summer holidays. I wonder if, given the distance from nearby cafés and shops, they just felt that it was necessary to provide some sort of catering to encourage visitors to attend…

[Northmoor]

One possible option for providing catering may be get a local WRVS or WI branch involved and agree a profit share (with no paid staff, the profit margin will be higher too).  They almost always have members with food hygiene certificates and with experience of running catering at their own events.

[hmrspaul]

4 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

One possible option for providing catering may be get a local WRVS or WI branch involved and agree a profit share (with no paid staff, the profit margin will be higher too).  They almost always have members with food hygiene certificates and with experience of running catering at their own events.

The Ebor Group let the local York Against Cancer organise the catering and take all of the profit. We don't have sufficient people to work on providing catering, (and that is without concerns over legal requirements). The other advantage to us has been that we get extra free local publicity, radio etc. and the Mayor etc. have opened every show. I don't think we would get this without the link with a well known, well liked, local charity. 

 

Paul

[John M Upton]

Leisure Centre Catering - In my experience almost universally over priced and barely edible.  The smaller tea and home made cakes type shows are always far far better and usually cheaper too.

[newbryford]

54 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Leisure Centre Catering - In my experience almost universally over priced and barely edible.  The smaller tea and home made cakes type shows are always far far better and usually cheaper too.

 

The main part of the reason for the home made stuff being cheaper at club shows is that it is usually staffed by volunteers - hence no staff costs to serve them up. And in many cases, minimal other costs of making these cakes as the time taken  - and often ingredients to make the cakes (as well as home cooking energy costs) is freely given.

 

In the past at our club, the "other" costs have been a couple of bouquets of flowers for the wives/girlfriends partners doing the honours.

 

But - as said above - many facilities such as leisure centres will have a franchise operation doing the catering and there is no other option as these companies pay for the exclusive rights to provide the catering at a venue and part of the agreement is that no outside caterer can be used - even if it's a volunteer operation to cover the event.

i.e. The venues will have often have no control over local catering.

The NEC has franchised operations - even the sweet/confectionary stands are franchised - in recent years, the main catering has been Sodexo from memory but may have changed - I don't know. [*]

 

Having been a trader/demonstrator/exhibitor at the NEC for more years than I can remember (as well as a visitor in the years when I wasn't doing any of the above three), the catering has been "variable".

Many of these franchise operations can ultimately rely on the local personnel for quality. (My wife is just about to finish work for such an outfit and she knows that the food served at different establishments is variable in quality, yet the supplier of the ingredients is the same for them all)

 

[*' My first experience of Sodexo was as a volunteer at the Commonwealth games in Manchester in 2002 and the food was excellent!

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by newbryford

[Barry O]

Catering is no longer a money maker at some exhibitions. We use the Grammar School at Leeds. They provide the catering and it is very good with lots of options for our attendees at the show. We even let people ina little bit earlier than the published show start time to enjoy the cooked breakfast.

 

Using the WI can be problematic as they no longer have the n7mber of volunteers willing to do cakes stalls etc (my sister was County Chair of the WI. N7mbers of volunteers in her county has reduced by 75% even pre covid.

 

It's all a balancing act. Some get it right..some get it wrong..

 

Baz

[009 micro modeller]

6 hours ago, newbryford said:

as said above - many facilities such as leisure centres will have a franchise operation doing the catering and there is no other option as these companies pay for the exclusive rights to provide the catering at a venue and part of the agreement is that no outside caterer can be used - even if it's a volunteer operation to cover the event.

And as it’s an already-signed contract, the venue owners probably have even less freedom to permit outside catering than if they were providing the usual catering directly.

 

If the idea of having food available at a show is to provide a further opportunity for the organising club to make a profit (additional to whatever they make from visitor admission) then it doesn’t seem to make sense for another group, whether volunteer or commercial, to provide and profit from the catering. If increasing the organising club’s profits isn’t the main point then I really like the idea of allowing a local voluntary or charitable group to do it and raise money for a good cause, as in the Ebor group example (a show that I attended and enjoyed a few years ago).

 

More generally though, do shows always need to have catering (for visitors as well as exhibitors)? I can’t think of any examples I’ve been to that haven’t (even if they only had tea/coffee plus snacks), and obviously larger shows located in the middle of nowhere probably need to have something. But for smaller shows in locations with plenty of food options nearby?

[Mike Bellamy]

Catering at Events

 

Despite what most people think - including many professionals who hire out premises etc, you do not heed any sort of qualification or food hygiene certificate to provide catering at 'one off' community or charity events.

 

Quote

Operations such as the occasional handling, preparation, storage and serving of food by private persons at events such as church, school or village fairs are not covered by the scope of the Regulation. This is made clear in recital 9 of Regulation (EC) No 852/2004. The second sentence states that: ‘Community rules should only apply to undertakings, the concept of which implies a certain continuity of activities and a certain degree of organisation.

 

The important points in the extract above are "continuity" and "organisation" as these both imply that you are running a catering business in which case you need to register with the local authority and have the necessary certificates etc. The guidance below covers a number of examples where registration and certification are not required. However, anyone providing food to others should follow basic principles and apply common sense.

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/providing-food-at-community-and-charity-events

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/media/document/hall-provision.pdf

.

[Chris M]

In my experience catering is an essential source of revenue for smaller exhibitions. It often makes a significant proportion of the profit for these shows. Sales of bacon baps always seem to exceed expectations at model railway exhibitions. Larger venues will almost invariably have their own catering arrangements. If there is catering available outside of these larger venues it is usually best to use those. For instance if you are going to the Great Electric Train Show you would be wise to pop outside for your lunch. The in house catering is good quality but you do need to have made overdraft arrangements with your bank before buying anything from them.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Mike Bellamy said:

Catering at Events

 

Despite what most people think - including many professionals who hire out premises etc, you do not heed any sort of qualification or food hygiene certificate to provide catering at 'one off' community or charity events.

 

 

The important points in the extract above are "continuity" and "organisation" as these both imply that you are running a catering business in which case you need to register with the local authority and have the necessary certificates etc. The guidance below covers a number of examples where registration and certification are not required. However, anyone providing food to others should follow basic principles and apply common sense.

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/providing-food-at-community-and-charity-events

 

https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/media/document/hall-provision.pdf

.

That is what I thought, backed up by my charity cake sale experience, which is why I was confused. Possibly the situation with the model railway show related to the hall requiring people to have certificates as an additional protection, although I’m not sure. I wonder whether using a venue that is regularly used for similar events with similar catering, or running a model railway show at the same time each year, could be seen by some people to imply some form of ‘continuity’. Is there likely to be any perceived difference where the organising model railway club is taking the catering profits into their own funds rather than raising money for charity? Although it’s still for a community group I suppose it could be viewed as being a bit more commercial.

 

 In the case of the cake sale I organised, I vaguely remember something about possibly needing to make out that the cost of food sold was technically a ‘donation’ (thus further avoiding any implications that it’s a business) although I don’t think we actually had to do this in the end.

[arran]

So 6 pages later we can extrapolate People like a Cafe and Exhibitors like Free food .

 

I could have saved you all the bother .

 

Regards Arran

[LNERandBR]

Nothing wrong with a good discussion. 😁

 

I think it's clear what works for one show won't always work for another. There are unique situations which require spacific solutions.

 

So, what is common? The issue of finding good quality layouts has to be one. However, how big a problem that is still depends on the spacific show. How many layouts are needed and how big the budget is.

 

Another issue has to be trade. In some ways I think the costs for them need to be reduced. If not, they will reducing the number of shows they attend and some already have. It won't always be the little show missing out either as it depends on the location. 

Why travel to a big show the other end of the county when you can atrend a smaller show locally. You'd pay less on stand rent, less on fuel, less on accommodation, etc.

[Phil Parker]

21 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Another issue has to be trade. In some ways I think the costs for them need to be reduced. If not, they will reducing the number of shows they attend and some already have. It won't always be the little show missing out either as it depends on the location. 

 

Stand rent isn't the big bill for the trade. Accomodation, staff costs and travel normally dwarf this I'm told. That, and the website will still be taking orders over the weekend, so you can't relax on Monday, those parcels need making up and posting as people expect fast service.

 

22 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Why travel to a big show the other end of the county when you can atrend a smaller show locally. You'd pay less on stand rent, less on fuel, less on accommodation, etc.

 

Numbers. Your village hall show is cheaper for a reason. If you want 5-6000+ potential customers in front of you, then the big show wins. That's the balancing act all traders have to perform.

[LNERandBR]

30 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Numbers. Your village hall show is cheaper for a reason. If you want 5-6000+ potential customers in front of you, then the big show wins. That's the balancing act all traders have to perform.

 

Issue there is the potential part. A bigger show will also have mutiple traders selling the same type of thing. Therefore there is competition as people will find the cheaper option if they want something.

 

A well run village hall show would have one teader of each type. If someone wants a second hand loco they'd have the choice of buying one off the only stand there or heading on the internet when they get home. Therefore that stand has 100% of the potential customers even though the number of those customers is lower.

 

Maybe some shows need to reduce the number of traders so each one has a bigger slice of the potential pie? Whilst that sounds bad from a stand rate income point of view. It's likely more sustainable in the longer run.

Edited September 27, 2022 by LNERandBR

[TheQ]

In general, I've found the bigger the show,  the more expensive and the poorer the food is,  certainly in value for money..

 

Profit for a show may not be direct.

Our club fees are quite high at £300 a year, this is because we hire an industrial unit.. But you get access 24/7 365 days a year.

So one of our aims is to keep the membership up. One new member is the equivalent of a small shows profits, there's a chance we have got 2 members out of our last show....

 

I could not justifiably do more than 50 miles each way without fuel expenses and that's while I'm working, when I retire at the end of the year then I certainly won't be able to do it.. I would always expect free tea and coffee. As for meals that would depend on the who what, why, of the event..

 

Once I get the current build showing, I intend to have leaflets to hand to Prospective show managers, as well as being on the appropriate forums  available to show pages..

[john new]

1 hour ago, LNERandBR said:

Nothing wrong with a good discussion. 😁

 

I think it's clear what works for one show won't always work for another. There are unique situations which require spacific solutions.

 

So, what is common? The issue of finding good quality layouts has to be one. However, how big a problem that is still depends on the spacific show. How many layouts are needed and how big the budget is.

 

Another issue has to be trade. In some ways I think the costs for them need to be reduced. If not, they will reducing the number of shows they attend and some already have. It won't always be the little show missing out either as it depends on the location. 

Why travel to a big show the other end of the county when you can atrend a smaller show locally. You'd pay less on stand rent, less on fuel, less on accommodation, etc.

Speaking as a person about to retire from the role as a Society PRO we have had to cut shows that aren’t local to a volunteer team prepared to crew it for the weekend with short travel times and therefore no significant Society born extra expenses. That has meant that, sadly, attending the major one’s have been those cut. Reason - exactly as Phil Parker said above, it isn’t stand rent but by the time the van and possibly one or two more cars/train fares to get a weekend crew to take the stand to the event with their accommodation costs also to be added in to the weekend’s expenditure total we were running an unsustainable loss. As for volunteering to do a society stand It is more than just Friday set up to Sunday - add in  the time to sort the display/sales stock out, then to collect and return the van, plus the sheer hard labour of loading heavy boxes of books etc., the return on time has to be seen as worthwhile. 

 

Same costs and hassle for traders, they have to weigh up the same costs and the on-site advertising advantages against their sales take if they are to decide if attending any specific show is worthwhile for them.  I agree layout operators have much of the same hassles too but with expenses paid at least some of the one-off costs of attendance are defrayed.

 

I think the hobby is lucky there are still enough new-blood layout builders masochistic enough to build and show a layout well away from their home base. Showing is hard work and many of us are now a great deal older than when we started in the mod-ex aspect of our hobby; however, it can also be very pleasurable, so I hope I haven’t come over as too much the grumpy old man, despite the fact age/tiredness etc.,  is now restricting my own show inputs.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by john new
Typos

[Phil Parker]

7 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Maybe some shows need to reduce the number of traders so each one has a bigger slice of the potential pie? Whilst that sounds bad from a stand rate income point of view. It's likely more sustainable in the longer run.

 

True - but if you drop the number of traders, you reduce the income to the club. None of the other bills are reduced. How do you suggest making up the deficit?

 

I suspect most exhibition managers, or at least the successful ones, talk to the trade and balance things out. Yes, it's nice to have exclusivity as a trader, but if you are selling RTR in a large show, that isn't going to happen. Worse, some traders expand their product range resulting in overlaps. Telling one that they can only bring certain products doesn't always go down well, as I know from experience.