The future of Model railway Exhibitions

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

Warley does offer excellent value for money if you look at it from a cost per layout point of view. With over 80 layouts to see the price you are paying per layout is under 25p. Stafford show (this weekend) with an admission price of £12 is also circa 25p per layout. There are some that are cheaper than this per layout but not very many. Most exhibitions with a much lower entrance price actually cost more per layout. Same applies to the number of trade exhibitors per £1 admission.  

 

Mansfield is 2.75p 😉

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

Warley does offer excellent value for money if you look at it from a cost per layout point of view. With over 80 layouts to see the price you are paying per layout is under 25p. Stafford show (this weekend) with an admission price of £12 is also circa 25p per layout. There are some that are cheaper than this per layout but not very many. Most exhibitions with a much lower entrance price actually cost more per layout. Same applies to the number of trade exhibitors per £1 admission.  

 

For me, it is not so much the actual cost of a ticket that puts me off a show like Warley but the sheer size. If you get there and have a full 8 hour day to see 80 plus layouts, that allows 6 minutes per layout and that is with no time for the walking inbetween, no time for refreshments and no time for demo or trade stands (and no time standing chatting with friends!). So the options are to either rush round at great speed or don't bother looking at quite a few layouts, which is not something I like to do. If somebody has taken the rouble to build and exhibit a layout, the very least I can do if I go to a show is to look at it for a while.

 

I went a few times as a visitor and really didn't enjoy the whole experience as much as I thought I would.

[PaulRhB]

I think we are over focusing on looking for problems 😉

As we’ve said before some like it some don’t, if everyone did it’d be wedged!

So some of us go back year after year as punters and exhibitors and have fun but it doesn’t suit everyone 🤷‍♂️ That’s fine and not a negative for the show or those that don’t like it, it’s just taste. 

[ELTEL]

6 minutes ago, mr roarke said:

Do exhibition managers still go to shows looking for layouts??? Before Covid we would be asked for info on the layout (s) we were exhibiting and 95% of these resulted a booking for another show. Since Covid we have attended quite number of shows based on bookings for shows that were cancelled during the pandemic..Not sure why this is happening now or is it the new "norm"???

Well I can say on behalf of Stafford Railway Circle a definite yes we are still visiting exhibitions and collecting layout details for future exhibition invites.

 

However as a lot of clubs have cancelled one or even two exhibitions over the last couple of years they have a lot of layout information  on file.

 

Before booking any further layouts for future exhibitions at Stafford we will be making contact with layout owners over the coming weeks to confirm that the layout information we have on there layout  is still valid and they wish to attend our 2023 or 2024 exhibitions.

 

I am sure that many other clubs will be taking a similar course of action.

 

The other item all clubs have to consider is the huge increase in cost of staging an exhibition with hall and energy, travel and accommodation costs all increasing.

 

So please support both your local model exhibition and the larger ones, otherwise it will like the demise of local model railway shops.

 

Use it or lose it.

 

In a lot of cases it will mean with no exhibition income there will be less model railway clubs.

 

Terry 

Stafford Railway Circle.

[ELTEL]

8 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I think we are over focusing on looking for problems 😉

As we’ve said before some like it some don’t, if everyone did it’d be wedged!

So some of us go back year after year as punters and exhibitors and have fun but it doesn’t suit everyone 🤷‍♂️ That’s fine and not a negative for the show or those that don’t like it, it’s just taste. 

Here Here 

[RedgateModels]

2 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

Well I can say on behalf of Stafford Railway Circle a definite yes we are still visiting exhibitions and collecting layout details for future exhibition invites.

 

 

Your more than welcome to come to Mansfield Terry to scout for layouts. We do good cake too 😃

[ELTEL]

17 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

For me, it is not so much the actual cost of a ticket that puts me off a show like Warley but the sheer size. If you get there and have a full 8 hour day to see 80 plus layouts, that allows 6 minutes per layout and that is with no time for the walking inbetween, no time for refreshments and no time for demo or trade stands (and no time standing chatting with friends!). So the options are to either rush round at great speed or don't bother looking at quite a few layouts, which is not something I like to do. If somebody has taken the rouble to build and exhibit a layout, the very least I can do if I go to a show is to look at it for a while.

 

I went a few times as a visitor and really didn't enjoy the whole experience as much as I thought I would.

I visit a number of non model railway shows over the year such as motorhome & caravan shows, the IPMS show at Telford  etc

 

In the week before I go to the show/exhibition I go on line and make a list of all the stands and traders I want to visit, so on arrival I have a plan.

 

It works well for me 

 

Terry 

[ELTEL]

4 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

 

Your more than welcome to come to Mansfield Terry to scout for layouts. We do good cake too 😃

I have been a few times over the years 

 

Terry 

[t-b-g]

38 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

I visit a number of non model railway shows over the year such as motorhome & caravan shows, the IPMS show at Telford  etc

 

In the week before I go to the show/exhibition I go on line and make a list of all the stands and traders I want to visit, so on arrival I have a plan.

 

It works well for me 

 

Terry 

 

I have another technique that has worked well for me. I have enjoyed Warley much more as an exhibitor than as a visitor and have had several layouts there.

 

I have considered your approach but if there is a layout there that I don't really know, how do I know whether to include it on the list of "see" or "not see"? I have seen some exhibitors mention that people walk by their layout sometimes and don't give it a second glance. I really don't want to be one of those people who do that.

 

I had a similar situation with the big O gauge showcase at Telford (now at Stafford). I went once and found that after a full day I left after seeing only half the show. Much of the time was spent catching up with people and chatting but to me, that is a big part of what I enjoy about exhibitions so that wasn't a problem.

 

On my next visit, I booked a hotel and went on both days. So I have no problem with being willing to spend a bit on a worthwhile and enjoyable show as I regard a good weekend away as being worth every penny.

 

Most of my friends don't go to Warley now, so I wouldn't really benefit from the social aspect in that instance. Going "solo" and spending the day or the weekend in a big crowd but with none of my friends present just isn't as enjoyable for me.

 

Many others don't see that as a problem and good luck to them but who else is going does impact on whether or not I will make an effort to go to a show. If a bunch of my friends were going to Warley I would happily pay the ticket price, the parking price and maybe an overnight room price.

 

If I am there with a layout, I will have one or more of my friends with me as operators, so the social aspect is covered that way.

 

I am not saying that Warley is a problem or should be avoided. It is just that it doesn't provide me with what I look for when attending a show.   

[arran]

HI All

 

The Future is what we make it with shows going forward, its all about the balance of the show and that can change when its large or small,  I think larger shows attract a higher percentage of modelers compared to a small local ones .  

 

Trade balance is also a factor and its getting harder to achieve  , modelers like to go to shows and pick up bits and pieces and some kits but in reality those sales are very much in decline "I Know"  

 

How some shows that bring in guests from afar can save money is limited in reality as hotels are currently 50% dearer Fuel dont go  there!!!   But providing a meal through the day could be scrapped , lets face it A cooked breakfast and out at night !!!!  is it really required?

 

One other point that KILLS shows is this constant changing of dates and venues  !!!  im not naming them but i used to attend and doing my own club show at ST Andrews i can usually walk through show and wonder how its paying with the layout and trade balance, let alone who is coming through the door.

 

Regards Arran   

[LNERandBR]

With Traders my club show tries to have one of each type. So one selling Second Hand, one with Brand New, etc.

 

We're a small village hall show and normally have around 7 layouts. So keeping the number of trade down like this brings more trade to each one so they are not competeing with each other.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I have another technique that has worked well for me. I have enjoyed Warley much more as an exhibitor than as a visitor .....

 

The crux of the issue. I wonder if any of the organisers have experienced the show as an ordinary punter, paying with their own money, queuing for seat at lunchtime, not availing themselves of the exhibitors rest room etc?

[TheQ]

Going back to Ally Pally, not only is there a old car tax on visiting any part of London, the car parks At Ally Pally will charge for everyone soon, £1.50 an hour up to £8 for over 4 hours. No cash of course, credit cards or strange  phone things..

 

The above is Part of the reason the National Dinghy exhibition has bailed out to Farnborough, unfortunately that's another hour + each way for me..

 

We have a couple of club members who are avid show goers, so that's been our source of visiting layouts..

[tomparryharry]

I was lucky to chat with a operator at the Cardiff show. After complimenting their work standard, he suggested they may be the last show. "Well, he said, Covid knocked us all about, and we're  2 years down the line".  "We're 2 years older, the visitors are 2 years older, and he swept his gaze upon his fellow exhibitors.. "We're not getting any younger,  y'know!"

 

The demographic will move back just as it always will. TBH, I think we don't have enough reliable yardsticks to go on. Retail has changed, and continues to change. How railway shows will evolve is certainly up for debate. 

 

A change of public perception, perhaps?

[RedgateModels]

A valid point - after next year the Elizabethan will not be able to take their large layouts out to shows as they will not have a member under 70 who can drive a van - unless they buy one. You can't hire one over 70 apparently. 

[Chris M]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

Mansfield is 2.75p 😉

At £4 for 12 layouts (2023 figures from uk model shops site) that is 33p per layout making it 33% more expensive than Warley or Stafford. 😉

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

experienced the show as an ordinary punter, paying with their own money, queuing for seat at lunchtime, not availing themselves of the exhibitors rest room etc?

I’ve been about 8 times as an exhibitor and more times as a punter and I’ve had no issues simply by taking food and sitting at one of the seating blocks in the main hall. All big venue catering is slow, go to gigs and you’ll pay and queue for ages. 
Just go prepared and pop a seat pad in your bag and sit on the floor in the void or pop out into the entrance halls and find somewhere to sit, there are lots of options. When I set out as a punter for Warley I know what to expect. If it’s not for you just avoid going and support a show to your tastes, also remember most of the organising team don’t actually get to see their show as they are too busy running it. Members on here used to be part of the team and have said in topics they only got to go round and look at the show once they stepped down. 
It obviously isn’t your thing but it works very well for some of us because we work most weekends so one big show with loads of variety is great and worth the money. 
 

Enjoy your cinema night out with the other half and we will both achieve a pleasant weekend doing what we want 😉

[RedgateModels]

2 minutes ago, Chris M said:

At £4 for 12 layouts (2023 figures from uk model shops site) that is 33p per layout making it 33% more expensive than Warley or Stafford. 😉

 

I must get a new calculator ....  🤣

[Chris M]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

The crux of the issue. I wonder if any of the organisers have experienced the show as an ordinary punter, paying with their own money, queuing for seat at lunchtime, not availing themselves of the exhibitors rest room etc?

“Exhibitors rest rooms” - I’ve been to every Warley NEC and never seen anything like that!

 

I have been involved in the Warley NEC show from the very first exhibition in one way or another. No, I have never experienced it as an ordinary punter. I expect very few ordinary punters have experienced the amount of totally unpaid work put in by a number of people all through the year in order to make the show happen. Many people do hours of work every week of the year to make the show happen.

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, Chris M said:

“Exhibitors rest rooms” - I’ve been to every Warley NEC and never seen anything like that!

 

 

But we do get our own breakfast/lunch/tea/coffee facility 😃

[D9020 Nimbus]

21 hours ago, john new said:

To clarify - the Racecourse as a general public venue attracts crowds and there is an approved runs as required bus service route which, when it runs, is provided by a commercial bus company (It has been TRANSDEV). It is not a YMRS service as such, we attract the crowd, pre-COVID they felt it justified running the bus link

Well, that isn't the impression Mike Cook gave in The Show That Never Ends, writing specifically about the time after Rider York (or were they First Group by then?) had failed to provide the service that should have run. After a year with a different operator, York Pullman provided the service for some years — even on the Sunday and Monday going as far as the venue itself, not stopping at the "Triangle" as was normally the case in the past. I got the impression that Mike had arranged this (excellent) service, and was contrasting the present situation to then; I'm aware about the 2018-19 situation, and it’s arrangement as you stated, but it's the service back in Mike's day I was referring to.

 

My copy is currently inaccessible for the next week or two; I'll provide the exact wording then. Or maybe you have a copy?

 

 

[Legend]

But another factor in visiting a show is to see the trade .  I live in West Central Scotland . There is a small model shop in Uddingston but thats it- the nearest real model shop is Harburns or Wonderland in Edinburgh ! In a major City like Glasgow there is no model shop .  So part of the enjoyment of exhibitions is actually to get to a model railway shop for these Metcalfe kits , track, second hand stuff .   Also for books we have Douglas Blades on the Scottish circuit . Always good for the latest books . 

[298]

I'm finding comments relating to Warley and it's costs to be irrelevant, about 2 million people can get there for £4 or even free on public transport and otherwise it is very well connected. Are the organising team still planning to retire and downsize the exhibition, because if a commercial organisation were to continue the costs would only go up.

 

Regarding getting show invites, I can't remember the last time an enquiry for details at a show led to an invite, that's probably my own fault for modelling more obscure overseas railways and as I've been told "Being in competition with other layouts to be the token US/Can or Continental layout", whether there are 10 or 30 layouts. Enquiries and bookings tend to come from existing known contacts and friends and occasionally from here. 

[john new]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Well, that isn't the impression Mike Cook gave in The Show That Never Ends, writing specifically about the time after Rider York (or were they First Group by then?) had failed to provide the service that should have run. After a year with a different operator, York Pullman provided the service for some years — even on the Sunday and Monday going as far as the venue itself, not stopping at the "Triangle" as was normally the case in the past. I got the impression that Mike had arranged this (excellent) service, and was contrasting the present situation to then; I'm aware about the 2018-19 situation, and it’s arrangement as you stated, but it's the service back in Mike's day I was referring to.

 

My copy is currently inaccessible for the next week or two; I'll provide the exact wording then. Or maybe you have a copy?

 

 

The bridge over the access road restricts the service to single deckers if they come past the Triangle and also adds to the service turn around time. I believe Mike managed to persuade the then operator to use single deckers for that reason. I can’t now recall with certainty why that stopped, although I do have a vague memory it was something to do with either driver shortages or no availability of single deckers in the operator’s fleet. No drivers wanting to work bank holidays has been a problem at least once, and when it was the tour bus company, my memory is that they only had open-toppers but all a long time ago now.
 

The bus market has changed over time, again I don’t know why TRANSDEV are now the authorised provider but I guess down to which ever company have registered the route with the Traffic Commissioners (or replacement body) and our extras just fit in with their running of the service for race meetings. 
 

Edited September 21, 2022 by john new
Added an extra observation.

[woodenhead]

6 hours ago, arran said:

How some shows that bring in guests from afar can save money is limited in reality as hotels are currently 50% dearer Fuel dont go  there!!!   But providing a meal through the day could be scrapped , lets face it A cooked breakfast and out at night !!!!  is it really required?

 

But those exhibitors are giving their time for free, I think more would think twice about standing all day on a layout if the only meals provided were breakfast and tea.  I think it's part and parcel of the deal between the parties involved in running a show, it's becomes more of a deal for exhibitors if they need to source meals in the middle of the day when they could be running trains or giving their colleagues a rest.