Hornby announce TT:120

[maico]

17 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

On my TT:120 layout I have motive power by Hornby, Arnold (Hornby), Roco, Kuhn, Piko, Tillig, Kres, Schirmer and MTB.  I also have a loco by Beckmann on pre-order.   I think that adds up to ten manufacturers, or eight outside the Hornby group.

 

Perhaps you need to include the words UK outline in that statement, though even that could be a temporary state- we'll know better in a year or two...

 

 

 

The latest steamer- a bit bigger than a Gresley Pacific, but runs round my R2 curves....   Like the layout, it will be in action at Syston Club's show at Barkby Thorpe this weekend.

 

 Les

 

I know Roco don't make locos in China, where are Tillig ones made?

Piko co-own their own factory in China. The factory tour video on YouTube shows an enormous operation possibly also making parts for other companies.

Edited May 9 by maico

[britishcolumbian]

9 minutes ago, maico said:

 

I know Roco don't make locos in China, where are Tillig ones made?

Piko co-own there own factory in China. Their factory tour video on YouTube shows an enormous operation possibly also making parts for other companies.

Tillig are made in Sebnitz.

[Baz657]

All you “OO” , “N”, “O”, and whatever else scale naysayers please take note. TT:120 is here to stay. It’s new. It’s in touch with the modern lifestyle (generally smaller dwellings and rooms). It was launched 19 months ago so don’t expect the vast range of product that, for example, OO has after nigh on 50 years or N after 20. I for one think this scale is great, and I’m fortunate in having the financial clout to have been able to purchase near enough everything that has so far been produced.

 

I’m not a “rivet counter” and I certainly wouldn’t worry too much about a shade of maroon or blue being a bit out on a coach. I connect a loco to some coaches and they go round and look ok, then I’m happy. It’s called playing trains - some forget that.

 

Perhaps this is the wrong forum to make these points. Maybe it’s not. Whatever.

 

Just trying to put the younger point of view for you all. 
 

I’ll only be 67 next month after all…..

[Hobby]

11 hours ago, Legend said:

No cohesion and that affects enthusiasts who will not build unrealistic layouts ie Pacifics on a branch line .

 

There is hope because we now have HST and the 50 is coming out (although a 47 would have been better)

 

Like the Severn Valley Railway then (other Heritage lines are also available!). The Class 50s and even the HST also suit this sort of "unrealistic layout"...

 

A4 Pacific on a branch line (Bewdley station):

 

 

From Wiki Commons.

Edited May 9 by Hobby

[Roy L S]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

On my TT:120 layout I have motive power by Hornby, Arnold (Hornby), Roco, Kuhn, Piko, Tillig, Kres, Schirmer and MTB.  I also have a loco by Beckmann on pre-order.   I think that adds up to ten manufacturers, or eight outside the Hornby group.

 

Perhaps you need to include the words UK outline in that statement, though even that could be a temporary state- we'll know better in a year or two...

 

 

 

The latest steamer- a bit bigger than a Gresley Pacific, but runs round my R2 curves....   Like the layout, it will be in action at Syston Club's show at Barkby Thorpe this weekend.

 

 Les

I am not sure there is any need to do that Les, "TT120" is explicitly a Hornby branding for it's British range and this thread's title is "Hornby announces TT120" so very nice thought your continental models are, they aren't really relevant to the topic at hand as far as I can see 🤔.

[britishcolumbian]

48 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

I am not sure there is any need to do that Les, "TT120" is explicitly a Hornby branding for it's British range and this thread's title is "Hornby announces TT120" so very nice thought your continental models are, they aren't really relevant to the topic at hand as far as I can see 🤔.

They are relevant, though, is that so many of the anti-TT crowd seem to be treating it as yet another UK-exclusive scale - which does need to be refuted every time.

[Legend]

I was specifically talking about British Outline and yes you could model a preserved railway where clearly anything goes - but that’s not exactly typical is it 

[Hobby]

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

 a preserved railway  - but that’s not exactly typical is it 

 

Really? I'd stop digging if I were you! ;)

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Like the Severn Valley Railway then (other Heritage lines are also available!). The Class 50s and even the HST also suit this sort of "unrealistic layout"...

 

A4 Pacific on a branch line (Bewdley station):

 

 

From Wiki Commons.

 

The Severn Valley Railway isn't and never was a branch line.

 

It's a truncated cross country mainline. 

 

Now post a photograph of a Pacific on a genuine branchline. No photos? I wonder why....

 

 

Jason

[Arun Sharma]

On 08/05/2024 at 10:49, AY Mod said:

 

 

I'm sure if traders had got stock they'd have had it on the stands. Why wouldn't they? Are they hiding it from customers? 😉

Apropos of nothing whatsoever....... I was at Ally Pally and bought PECO TT120 wagons from the Cheltenham Models Stand - Having been directed there from the PECO stand.

 

[D3489gibson]

Forgot I'd filmed this clip of the running sample of the GBRf 66 at Key MW Live! Hauling the samples of the MGR hoppers.

 

GBRf 66 on Twelvemill Bridge

 

Nathan

[Roy L S]

3 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

They are relevant, though, is that so many of the anti-TT crowd seem to be treating it as yet another UK-exclusive scale - which does need to be refuted every time.

Every other country as far as I can see (having quickly checked) simply calls the scale "TT" and "TT120" is purely a Hornby branding. Nobody is as far as I am aware disputing the availability of TT in continental Europe and elsewhere as an established scale at circa 2.5mm/ft but I would respectfully disagree, it is no more relevant to the discussion than the availability of US N models to anyone modelling in British or Continental N. The survival/growth of TT120 in the UK outline market is entirely dependent on a coherent range of products coming on line and no amount of German (e.g.) outline models being available is going to make a significant difference to that.

[Hobby]

58 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The Severn Valley Railway isn't and never was a branch line.

 

It's a truncated cross country mainline 

 

Agree to differ time, it was operated as a long country branch throughout its life. It had a short history of importance in WW2 for trains avoiding the West Mids but other than that it was just a branch line and thats how it was operated. I feel our definitions of branch and "mainline" differ somewhat, The S&D it wasn't!

 

But for you, A3 on the K&WVR.

 

Edited May 9 by Hobby

[Hobby]

14 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

The survival/growth of TT120 in the UK outline market is entirely dependent on a coherent range of products coming on line and no amount of German (e.g.) outline models being available is going to make a significant difference to that.

 

I agree with the first bit, and from what's been announced by Hornby that's what's coming. However TT is a universal scale and so you cannot dismiss the availability of foreign (not just German) stock that easily. It will have some impact, more so than for N or H0/00, for instance. Outside the more serious modellers its surprising just how much mixing of the stock already exists, TT opens that up even more.

 

Regarding TT vs TT120, personally I wish they'd stuck just to TT but I can see their (and Peco's) reasoning, perhaps in time the 120 bit will get dropped once it becomes established. I hope.

[smr248]

10 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I agree with the first bit, and from what's been announced by Hornby that's what's coming. However TT is a universal scale and so you cannot dismiss the availability of foreign (not just German) stock that easily. It will have some impact, more so than for N or H0/00, for instance. Outside the more serious modellers its surprising just how much mixing of the stock already exists, TT opens that up even more.

 

Regarding TT vs TT120, personally I wish they'd stuck just to TT but I can see their (and Peco's) reasoning, perhaps in time the 120 bit will get dropped once it becomes established. I hope.

An example of something potentially useful is the Arnold ferry vans.

[Hobby]

The container wagons as well.

[Steamport Southport]

40 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Agree to differ time, it was operated as a long country branch throughout its life. It had a short history of importance in WW2 for trains avoiding the West Mids but other than that it was just a branch line and thats how it was operated. I feel our definitions of branch and "mainline" differ somewhat, The S&D it wasn't!

 

But for you, A3 on the K&WVR.

 

 

Another line built to mainline standards which was truncated at Oxenhope due to the owning company running out of money. It was supposed to go across to Hebden Bridge.

 

 

If you think that 167 ton locomotives with an axle weight of 22 tons worked on branchlines then you are very much mistaken. All those preserved lines have had major work done so they could use large locomotives.

 

However those are preservation era. Now find a genuine photograph of a Pacific working on a branchline....

 

Besides Hornby haven't even made a preserved A3 or A4. I know about "Rule 1", but Legends comment wasn't about that as you well know.

 

 

 

Jason

[Hobby]

25 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

However those are preservation era. Now find a genuine photograph of a Pacific working on a branchline....

 

It's nothing to do with "Rule 1", the Preservation era is just as valid as any other so those photos of Pacifics on single track branch lines are just as valid as any other, my layout is based on one, but perhaps that's not a proper model railway either...

 

FS on the Bluebell, but I suppose in your view that isn't a branch line either... 🙄😂

 

 

(I could make a model of that train in TT120 with some of Garry Hall's repainted Mk1s as well!)

Edited May 9 by Hobby

[peak experience]

I hoped we'd seen the last of the negativity 150 posts back, but it seems to have reared its ugly head again. Fwiw, a quick search on eBay for TT120 brings up hundreds and hundreds of offerings, from a plethora of small scale manufacturers, and the Facebook groups have a healthy buzz with lots of folk posting photos of their fledgling layouts in the building process. I've yet to start mine, but I've got a BR blue class 08, 6 TTAs and two brake vans, the latter of which I'm going to bash into a 20T Standard BR brake in bauxite, plus various items of track. 

[moawkwrd]

1 hour ago, peak experience said:

I hoped we'd seen the last of the negativity 150 posts back, but it seems to have reared its ugly head again.

Indeed, and it’s so boring and dull.

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The Severn Valley Railway isn't and never was a branch line.

 

It's a truncated cross country mainline. 

 

Now post a photograph of a Pacific on a genuine branchline. No photos? I wonder why....

 

 

Jason

 

No photo as I was a young teenager on my way back to school for the afternoon, but the only time I saw William Whitelaw on a train it was shunting the coal cells at Grieveson and Whitwell's siding at Faverdale, Darlington.  A week later it became the only A4 I photographed in BR service, standing as main line pilot at Darlington shed, facing the wrong way round (ie facing the turntable).

I did mention to SK that it would have had to work the train tender first after it had shunted the Chemical and insulating Company about a mile further on at the end of the line.  I still didn't persuade him the model needed front couplings.

 

Les

 

Edited May 9 by Les1952
typos as usual

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Another line built to mainline standards which was truncated at Oxenhope due to the owning company running out of money. It was supposed to go across to Hebden Bridge.

 

 

If you think that 167 ton locomotives with an axle weight of 22 tons worked on branchlines then you are very much mistaken. All those preserved lines have had major work done so they could use large locomotives.

 

However those are preservation era. Now find a genuine photograph of a Pacific working on a branchline....

 

Besides Hornby haven't even made a preserved A3 or A4. I know about "Rule 1", but Legends comment wasn't about that as you well know.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The North Eastern Railway built almost all of its branch lines to Route Availability 9.  Pacifics reached Middleton in Teesdale, and at least one reached Catterick Camp on the end of the twig line from Catterick Bridge.  On a troop train from Kings Cross this required two reversals.  The train would run to Darlington with the engine chimney first.  The loco would run round and take the train tender-first back down the ECML as far as Eryholme Junction where it would then take the Richmond branch as far as Catterick Bridge.  Here it ran round and took the train up the Catterick camp twig chimney first.

Normally the troop trains were hauled by V2s.  The best reason I've got for Pacifics not being used more often (particularly A3s) seems to suggest problems with the run round loop at Catterick Camp station, but my research got no furter.  On my Croft Spa layout a signature train was an 8 coach express hauled by a tender-first V2.

Of course the North Eastern did a lot of things to a much higher standard, and was very progressive- Merry Go Round trains of bogie hopper wagons well before 1910 for instance.....

 

Les

Edited May 9 by Les1952

[F-UnitMad]

9 hours ago, Hobby said:

TT is a universal scale and so you cannot dismiss the availability of foreign (not just German) stock that easily. It will have some impact, more so than for N or H0/00,

Indeed. It's the common scale for UK & EU outline that interests me about TT120, to replicate (as I've said before, possibly on this thread) a regular chemicals traffic flow I used to see for myself in the West Midlands, which cannot easily be done in N, OO or O.

As yet, neither the BR locos or stock, or the Continental ferry tankers, are yet available. Then the prices so far have been a bit "HOW MUCH??!!" for me personally, for what would be a dabble/diversion from my usual scale & interests, so my own TT120 journey may never happen.

Nevertheless, having contributed not one penny to TT120 (as yet) does not make me a Naysayer by any means, and I hope the scale continues to become popular & ranges expanded.

[HExpressD]

On 08/05/2024 at 19:41, Steamport Southport said:

 

The vans, not the brake vans.

 

LNER vans had sliding doors.

 

This is pure GWR but with LNER markings.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-vent-van-era-3-tt6004

 

 

Geof Sheppard via Wiki

 

 

Jason

I think this feeds into the enthusiast/lay person debate. For me, and baring in mind I model in 00, I don't really care if I have the exact correct diagram number of van for a certain loco or era, I just want a line of boxes behind a loco they broadly match. That van, GWR as it is, does match the previously released locos in terms of operator with LNER on the side and I highly imagine most people haven't noticed or realised they aren't strictly correct; and I'll wager wouldn't care if it was pointed out. 

[GenericRMWebUsername]

24 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

I think this feeds into the enthusiast/lay person debate. For me, and baring in mind I model in 00, I don't really care if I have the exact correct diagram number of van for a certain loco or era, I just want a line of boxes behind a loco they broadly match. That van, GWR as it is, does match the previously released locos in terms of operator with LNER on the side and I highly imagine most people haven't noticed or realised they aren't strictly correct; and I'll wager wouldn't care if it was pointed out. 

And I do think some of these compromises will start being less frequent.

 

Hornby needed to create wagons that could reasonably represent LNER/NER/ER, SR, GWR/WR, and LMS/LMR prototypes. Why? Because the TT market is small. And when Hornby was designing these wagons, the market was completely unproven. If Hornby got too region specific, they would have needed to tool up many more variants with corresponding increases in costs. And the individual tooling might not generate sufficient sales to justify the investment. 

 

If memory serves, these wagons also share a chassis with the mineral wagons. They wanted as many sales from the one tooling project as possible. Not because they're trying to cynically cheat people who are new to model railways or lower the standards people expect, but because this was a really risky investment that required getting as many wagons to the market ASAP. 

 

It's not perfect or ideal, but I think it was a sound decision. These same wagons can be rebranded as needed. As the market expands and sales increase, the ability to create narrower region-specific wagons becomes available. Each release seems to be an improvement over the last. There's good reason to be optimistic!