Hornby announce TT:120

[AY Mod]

Just now, teletougos said:

Is it viewable anywhere ?

 

Hopefully not, but if it is I don't want anyone posting anything of his on here.

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, teletougos said:

Is it viewable anywhere ? I know that's playing into his game, but for me it's likely to be the first and last time I watch his content . . . 

He’s flirting with court action.  Virulently nasty. A disgrace.

 

[Hobby]

23 hours ago, TT100 Diesels said:

Goodness me, I quite wrongly assumed a lot of the stuff on Garry's layout was  3mm stuff with some 120 running as well ! Mightily impressed, I assume Lenny has been busy shooting down 3mm bodies to 2.5mm, and massive kudos to Garry for motorising it. 

 

Just shows what can be done if one is minded to do so, and I know it is an eclectic mix but as with his 3mm stuff, Garry likes to run trains he "likes", so essentially a rule 1 layout, but that is not meant to be a criticism though, just impressed with his foresight and round tuit.

 

And slightly embarrassing for me to look at 120 stuff and confuse it for 100 stuff, being a 3mm er 🤔. No problems with the LNER Pacifics, it was all the other stuff.

 

Garry says thanks and he knows it is not a criticism about his rule 1 layout comment. The TT 120 none Hornby models are Peppercorn A1's, Britannia's, rebuilt W/C (modified Britannia), Castle - Corgi diecast (Castle my own chassis but no slidebars made). Unrebuilt W/C, Q1, J69, USA dock tank - Shapeways. Lord Nelson, B12, A5, J39, 8F, Claude, N2, Prairie, J50, Stanier 2-6-4, all diesels - Lincoln Locos. There are 2 more Lincoln Locos bodies being printed this week, one diesel and then one very new steam loco only finished by Lenny about 2 weeks ago and never advertised yet. For those who have looked on the Lincoln-Locos site and noticed there is nothing in the TT 120 section, Lenny will print any of his 3mm bodies off at 120 scale if asked.

 

On a personal note, I only wish I had Garry's skills with chassis and able to do what he's done. I'm afraid my attempts in H0e have not been quite as successful which tends to make me be patient and hope that Hornby do produce the locos I want in time!

[TT100 Diesels]

Wow, thanks Hobby, that is an impressive roster that Garry has gathered. I thought I had got a good few locos from Lenny in 3mm but pails compared with what Garry had in 3mm and now TT120. 

 

And I agree, Garry has a great knack at modifying Triang chassis and etching his own sides for bespoke versions, and he has written up a lot of this good stuff in the 3mm society magazine Mixed Traffic.

 

I think it is fair to say he honed is craft in 3mm and is now focussing the lessons learnt to create lots of opportunities for a loco roster way beyond Hornby's current state of play in TT120. With all the 3d stuff about, modellers and creators like Garry can have open house with TT120 and as Hornby and perhaps others produce more variety in rtr over time then that equals more motorised chassis to exploit.

 

Whilst I acknowledge that it is still going to be a fair old wait for folk who purely rely on rtr for a potentially cohesive rosters, clearly the race is already on for modellers and creators who are getting other stuff going. 

 

Indeed, I see on the scale specific thread, TT120 section, Blefescu had already knocked out a Deltic and is on with a 313 EMU (so dead easy to get all the PEP derived units!). For the modellers, TT120 is out the bag, got legs and is running. Pure rtr is probably considered to be still just toddling, but as promised phases belatedly come to market, steps will become strides......

 

Cheers

 

TT100 Diesels

 

 

[Les1952]

On 01/03/2024 at 11:45, Roy L S said:

 

In terms of actual shunting, the physically larger wagons and the additional weight could be an advantage for TT120 I agree, but it is only one of a number of factors in the mix such as whether points are insulfrog or electrofrog to aid good pickup for reliable slow running, how carefully track has been laid, the type of uncoupling system employed - I would think Dapol Easi-Shunt couplings in N would knock the spots off the mechanically actuated TT couplings that the Hornby models come with but by contrast traditional Arnold "Rapido" type N couplings would be a different matter entirely 🤔.

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

 

 

As a user of Easi-shunts in both N and TT:120 I will say that the ease of shunting with these in TT:120 is an order of magnitude better than in N.  The extra weight of TT stock means that wagons are vastly more able to remain in the right place during shunting, and the stronger centring spring on the kinematic pockets means the jaws of the easi-shunt open wide much more successfully in TT than in N.  It is also possible to do something I never achieved in N, which is for the jaws to open and lock allowing a wagon to be pushed to a point remote from the magnet and parked- difficult enough even with Kadees in OO.

 

The vast majority of my stock in both scales has been replaced by magnetic couplings, Easi-shunts for anything that is shunted and Hunt couplings for trains that need to stay together.  In both scales the proprietory couplings part company in the wrong place too often.  On Bregenbach a Rapido coupling that decides to uncouple at the top of a slope means a rake of wagons (usually the tankers) hurtling backwards down the 1 in 25.  This train is the last to get Hunt Couplings as it has taken WHWW quite a while to get a fitting into the Fleischmann box with the flat spring.  In TT:120 both the Hunt coupling and the Easi-shunt fit into the NEM pocket with no issues at all.

 

On insulfrog points I'm looking to get a stay-alive into my 08 so it is less susceptible to exhibition dirt out front and to my (unwise in hindsight) Hornby pointwork in the fiddle yard.

 

Les

 

Edited March 2 by Les1952
typos as usual

[Pacific231G]

On 01/03/2024 at 20:34, GenericRMWebUsername said:

I could be wrong, but I think we're still a while away from seeing Continental manufacturers entering the British TT market.  While TT has made strides in recent years in Western Europe, there's still a lot of prototypes available for modeling. Continuing to grow TT in Western Germany, France, the Netherlands, etc. seems like a more a natural progression for those firms.

So far, unfortunately since it's what I model, I've seen no evidence of TT gaining any foothold at all in France. If you want to build a German, Czech or Hungarian etc. layout in TT things are fairly rosy but, apart from the odd wagon- which could of course be found outside France, I've seen no sign of anything being available in TT scale* . The hobby base is smaller there than in Britain or Germany so it's probably too much  of a niche. It took a long time for much French material to be available in N scale though the market is pretty well served now.   

 

*Even for narrow gauge, relatively few French modelers  use 12 mm gauge track for H0m, despite the fact that the country once had some 20 000 kms (12 500 miles) of metre gauge railways. Most narrow gauge modellers there use H0e or 0e, even though the total of 60cm (2ft more or less) public railways was only about 450 km and the 750-760mm gauge that H0e properly represents was confined to just one public railway 12km long. 

Edited March 5 by Pacific231G

[britishcolumbian]

6 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

So far, unfortunately since it's what I model, I've seen no evidence of TT gaining any foothold at al in France. If you want to build a German, Czeh or Hungarian etc. layout in TT things are fairly rosy but, apart from the odd wagon- which could of course be found outside France, I've seen no sign of anything being available in the scale* .

I have a pre-SNCF steam locomotive (BR 38, in État livery) which was produced by Beckmann RTR some fair few years ago. Tillig and previously BTTB did an SNCF version of the V36, and I'm fairly sure Tillig has done some very recent/present day French motive power, too. Oh and there was a short-run production of a Michelin railcar by (IIRC) Union-TT, I think it was a resin body. And of course the various wagons you mention, BTTB also did some ex-Prussian passenger stock in post-war SNCF lettering, though I don't know about the accuracy of those.

 

Here's a link to a post with a pic of the État locomotive:

 

Edited March 3 by britishcolumbian

[teletougos]

19 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

He’s flirting with court action.  Virulently nasty. A disgrace.

 

Yup. It sounds like it. But I was interested in it as it's a whole type of commentary/ culture I've never seen in this hobby.  I don't watch much Youtube, and I thought it would be useful to see at least one bit of it, to know what's going on. 

[Hobby]

15 minutes ago, teletougos said:

But I was interested in it as it's a whole type of commentary/ culture I've never seen in this hobby. 

 

Every forum I've ever been on has posts from people who have "something" against a particular manufacturer and will do anything to "express" their views. If you haven't seen that you really must have kept your head very low!

[teletougos]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

Every forum I've ever been on has posts from people who have "something" against a particular manufacturer and will do anything to "express" their views. If you haven't seen that you really must have kept your head very low!

As others have pointed out, one motive for this kind of behaviour may be to attract attention to his channel. 

 

If that is so, it is not necessarily a case of him having a grudge against a 'particular' manufacturer - sounds more like the strategy would be to find any popular target, then just to be as loudly contrary as possible. 

Edited March 3 by teletougos

[Hobby]

Maybe, maybe not, I see it more as an extension of that sort of behaviour with the added bonus (and incentive) that they will get paid for doing it.

Edited March 3 by Hobby

[fezza]

20 minutes ago, teletougos said:

As others have pointed out, one motive for this kind of behaviour may be to attract attention to his channel. 

 

If that is so, it is not necessarily a case of him having a grudge against a 'particular' manufacturer - sounds more like the strategy would be to find any popular target, then just to be as loudly contrary as possible. 

 

In fairness, his posts do praise some products. I don't like this "outrage" style but I do think it is important that manufacturers face some critical voices online. I get fed up with expensive flawed products being cheered on by people who clearly have an agreed relationship with the manufacturer. His post on Rapido /Frankie Howard was actually quite funny and Rapido responded by entering into the gag. Bachmann had a sense of humour failure and consequently generated even more bad publicity and more traffic for his website. Rapido 1, Bachmann 0.

[Hobby]

15 minutes ago, fezza said:

His post on Rapido /Frankie Howard was actually quite funny

 

I am not going to go and find that video and add to his coffers, but in fairness to Bachmann and their employee, was it directly comparable, i.e. did it poke fun at someone's disability?

[teletougos]

3 minutes ago, fezza said:

 

In fairness, his posts do praise some products. I don't like this "outrage" style but I do think it is important that manufacturers face some critical voices online

 

Okay, I have watched one of his videos now. Tactic seems to be initial outrage, then a quick backing off/feigned innocence from him in the comments section below.  

 

This says to me that his motive is clicks /  attention. Once his aim is attained, he retreats.  This is a very typical online behaviour.

 

Someone who has a grudge against a business doesn't necessarily do that. I have cost one business who screwed me over, quite a few sales. Just from doing one simple thing. Even from conversations at shows, I know the amount they cost me has been exacted many times over. 

 

Of course, I don't go public and loudly say what they did, or what I did.  

[fezza]

42 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I am not going to go and find that video and add to his coffers, but in fairness to Bachmann and their employee, was it directly comparable, i.e. did it poke fun at someone's disability?

 

I was just making the point that it wasn't all negative attacks - the guy clearly praises some products. He also shows inexperienced modellers how things work and how to repair stuff. 

 

People on here wishing him violence is going too far.

 

Most of YouTube is clickbait - that's how you generate revenue. I tend to stock to a few channels that are worthwhile - Pilentum for example.

Edited March 3 by fezza

[Hobby]

6 minutes ago, fezza said:

I was just making the point that it wasn't all negative attacks - the guy clearly praises some products. He also shows inexperienced modellers how things work and how to repair stuff. 

 

I was simply asking if the two videos were directly comparable, Bachmann were defending the integrity of an employee which, at least to me, shows a caring employer, were Rapido? If not, then "Rapido 1 Bachmann 0" is rather a pointless comment, if they were than I feel the score should be the other way round.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

Bachmann had a sense of humour failure

 

It's not a sense of humour failure to act upon a personal attack on an employee.

[J-Lewis]

On 29/02/2024 at 13:09, BachelorBoy said:

Hornby's flip-flops on Playtrains have not improved my confidence in the company to make the right decisions on TT:120.

 Not sure it’s a fair comparison.  On the one hand there is Playtrains which don’t appear to have sold well at all, and were always a bit of an odd strategy given the widespread availability of Tomy Tomica trains and Brio wooden trains, plus Thomas range from Bachmann etc.  so a lot of competition in that ‘first train’ market for kids.

 

The TT range is an existing scale with reasonably widespread support across the channel, but zero competition here, so a wide open field.  The first models appear to have been very successful, and the sheer volume of sales and positive feedback from purchasers would suggest it’s off to a flying start.

 

Given that the ‘right decisions’ are usually based on profits, it’s surely likely that Hornby will continue to flog the TT horse for the foreseeable future?  Next month is the big reveal of the next phases.  If it turns out to be a damp squib then perhaps you have a point, but if the announcement brings firm dates and prices for phases 3 & 4 then I’d expect a lot of naysayers to quietly change their tune.  We shall see what happens.

Edited March 5 by J-Lewis

[009 micro modeller]

41 minutes ago, J-Lewis said:

Not sure it’s a fair comparison.  On the one hand there is Playtrains which don’t appear to have sold well at all, and were always a bit of an odd strategy given the widespread availability of Tomy Tomica trains and Brio wooden trains, plus Thomas range from Bachmann etc.  so a lot of competition in that ‘first train’ market for kids.

Also am I right in thinking that Playtrains is only partly compatible with other 00 stuff? Which must have some implications for people who buy it for their children with one eye on them being able to add to it with items from the main range when they’re older.

[Phil Parker]

13 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Also am I right in thinking that Playtrains is only partly compatible with other 00 stuff? Which must have some implications for people who buy it for their children with one eye on them being able to add to it with items from the main range when they’re older.

 

It runs on the same track, but has different couplings. You don't want to give tension locks to the Playtrains market, they would hurt themselves on them. The magnetic versions are far more child-friendly.

[Pacific231G]

On 03/03/2024 at 06:33, britishcolumbian said:

I have a pre-SNCF steam locomotive (BR 38, in État livery) which was produced by Beckmann RTR some fair few years ago. Tillig and previously BTTB did an SNCF version of the V36, and I'm fairly sure Tillig has done some very recent/present day French motive power, too. Oh and there was a short-run production of a Michelin railcar by (IIRC) Union-TT, I think it was a resin body. And of course the various wagons you mention, BTTB also did some ex-Prussian passenger stock in post-war SNCF lettering, though I don't know about the accuracy of those.

 

Here's a link to a post with a pic of the État locomotive:

 

Versions of German locos that ended up in France, mostly as reparations after the First World War, have long been fairly common in H0 as well. So have coaches such as "Bastilles" and thunderboxes and standard European wagons in SNCF markings. All have been fairly simple for manufacturers to add to their ranges requiting little more than relettering. However, while these are useful additions to models of native French stock they are no substitute for it in creating a French themed layout.  

[britishcolumbian]

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Versions of German locos that ended up in France, mostly as reparations after the First World War, have long been fairly common in H0 as well. So have coaches such as "Bastilles" and thunderboxes and standard European wagons in SNCF markings. All have been fairly simple for manufacturers to add to their ranges requiting little more than relettering. However, while these are useful additions to models of native French stock they are no substitute for it in creating a French themed layout.  

No, you're definitely right... but it's better than nothing... there is a good amount of stock for eras 4 through 6... but a dearth of power. There's the Beckmann État steamer I have... a V36 good for post-ww2 period... and a TRAXX in silver and green era VI... but now Tillig seem to have an 040TX, so a second post-war engine:

 

https://www.tillig.com/eng/Produkte/produktinfo-72014.html

 

But your point is still true, yeah. Can you make a French scene of any sort without some form of Nez Cassé?

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

It runs on the same track, but has different couplings. You don't want to give tension locks to the Playtrains market, they would hurt themselves on them. The magnetic versions are far more child-friendly.

I know, I was actually thinking more about the ability to run through points etc.

[MarkSG]

13 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I know, I was actually thinking more about the ability to run through points etc.

 

There's a video of one of them running on normal OO track on the Hornby Facebook page. Doesn't show them running through points, though.

 

https://www.facebook.com/officialhornby/videos/190086229860554

[luke_stevens]

On 01/03/2024 at 20:54, britishcolumbian said:

I agree, mostly. That's why I keep thinking MTB might be first, as they regularly release toolings that are fairly unique to "small markets", such as Hungarian and Romanian locomotives... which is why I think they might go for one of the British types operated by private railway companies in Hungary/Poland/Romania. Primarily for those markets, with British livery sales as a bonus...

 

I would like to think MTB would be first, in particular as they already have the correct bogies for the Cl 56... One  of the reasons Brush got the initial contract for the Cl 56 is that they already had a Co bogie used for heavy haulage. Originally designed by Sulzer for the Swiss Ae6/6 electric locomotive it was developed into the bogie for the Romanian 060-DA, of which the initial batch were built in Switzerland. The many, many subsequent locomotives were built at the Craiova plant in Romania where the first 56's were constructed.

 

The MTB model would need new side-frames and a longer chassis but it would be a good start. But I believe several MTB models have been produced as commission for other manufactures / shops / retailers. Hopefully someone in he UK is interested enough...

 

Luke

Edited March 5 by luke_stevens