J-Lewis Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 20 hours ago, Porfuera said: But there doesn't seem to be much new stuff high up in that list - it seems to be mostly reliveries of existing items with the new locos and coaches being medium to low priority at the bottom. Surely if they're going to continue with TT:120 then shouldn't their priority be growing the range significantly rather than producing reliveries? it seems reasonable to expect prices and preorders for phase 3 at least. Given that it should start being delivered early next year. We know the Class 37 is pencilled in for 1st quarter 2025 based on the sound file list for HM7000. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericRMWebUsername Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 20 hours ago, Porfuera said: But there doesn't seem to be much new stuff high up in that list - it seems to be mostly reliveries of existing items with the new locos and coaches being medium to low priority at the bottom. Surely if they're going to continue with TT:120 then shouldn't their priority be growing the range significantly rather than producing reliveries? I believe they're ditching the Phases but I would've thought they'd more or less stick with what's in the catalogue (i.e. Phases 3 and 4), plus the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 (both were in the announcement made last July) and a third steam 0-6-0 if there is one (I'm still not 100% convinced) and then the delayed Class 60 and 9F to follow after all those. They have a number of wagons listed in the catalogue and the range is currently a bit short of wagons. These are: Conflat with container; Mk1 Horse Box; VEA Van; KFA (Container and Tanktainer); Seacow; VGA Van. Perhaps there are some odd choices there but then they haven't shown much joined-up thinking to date - the horse box especially seems an odd choice (maybe it is one of their past favourites in 00) but I'd have thought something like a cattle wagon would be more useful. There are also other coaches in the catalogue: LNER Gresley Coaches and GWR & BR Collett Coaches (as well as more Mk1s, including a parcels coach). I would think there will also be some mention of what's to come after Phase 4 with any CAD or 3D prints that are available and maybe one or two surprises but I'd have thought they'd continue as planned - unless, of course, the new management wants to stamp its own mark on the range, in which case everything may well be up in the air. EDIT: I'm not saying all that will come this year - at current rates of production I'd expect Phases 3 and 4 to take 2 years at least, if not more - but I'd have thought that they'll stick with what's been announced so far. I'll preface this is speculation and I could be off enormously. I've gotten things wrong in the past, and I'll continue to get stuff wrong in the future. But I think this is how Hornby is approaching these based off of things we've heard... Ultimately, we have to remember this is the 2024 range event. Hornby is probably not going to want to highlight products due in 2025 or 2026. Phase 3 seems like it was supposed to encompass Class 47, Class 37, and the 9F. The 9F wasn't ever explicitly confirmed as part of Phase 3, but I think based on the literature it was implied. And while Hornby is moving away from "phases", I think they're still useful in giving us a rough timeline of when things were supposed to be released. The Class 50s, the Duchesses, and the Class 66s will be arriving throughout the Summer and Fall. By November/December Hornby might have an opening to launch a new product. We know that two 0-6-0Ts (Jinty and J94) had entered tooling in Spring of 2023. They might just arrive by the end of the year. The other contender for a 2024 release is the Class 47. It's a long shot though. We know Hornby is targeting early/mid 2025 for the Class 37. It's possible that the Class 47 beats it to market and arrives in 2024 (I'd love that!), but I think it's still pretty precarious. If the Class 47 arrives in 2024, I think it would be a November/December release. This is my rough guess for 2024 and 2025 releases. 2024: -Class 43 -Class 50 -Duchesses -Class 66 -Jinty -J94? -Class 47? 2025: -Class 47 -Class 37 -J94 -Castle -Pannier -9F -Class 31 2024 is the year of the LMS/LMR. 2025 should be the year of GWR/WR. They'll get 2 locomotives, coaches, buildings, and wagons. I wouldn't be shocked if the GWR locomotives jump ahead of the 9F. What about the SR? That could be a while... Your point about wagons is absolutely fair. The range needs new wagons. We especially need LMS freight wagons and brake vans for the Jinty that is probably arriving this year. But I think the elephant in the room when it comes to needing freight wagons are the Class 66s. Unlike the Class 50s and 47s, that saw extensive passenger work, the Class 66 is the ultimate freight locomotive. And while there was overlap with the HAAs, those modeling modern layouts won't have much optionality. Arnold's container wagons are great, but we need the KFAs ASAP. If there's any wagon that Hornby might release in 2024, it has to be the KFAs. It's an essential wagon. But I'm not too optimistic about there being a surprise announcement of some new product. The head of brand has repeatedly told us not to expect much. Unfortunately, the marketing team is playing April 2nd up as a huge event.* I'm worried that people are going to be disappointed when they see the event. *The marketing team needs work. Not only are there errors in product materials, but they also regularly fail to control expectations. Take the Play Trains brand relaunch. Instead of carefully controlling expectations, they simply released a statement that said "a new train is arriving." This led people to speculate (reasonably!) that a surprise locomotive was being announced. When the Play Trains set was released, people were confused and some upset. Hornby could have remedied the situation by changing the teaser to "A New Play Train is Arriving." Another problem with the relaunch of Play Trains was the lack of communication on how and why they were relaunching it. Hornby had previously communicated that they were ending the Play Trains line. What they meant to communicate was that Play Trains as we know it was ending (no more characters). Hornby should have had a blog post ready to go explaining their strategy for Play Trains moving forward and why they made the decision they did. But all they did was release a picture of the set with no insight. Getting a competent individual as head of marketing should be priority one. I'm hoping Martyn realizes that these problems exist and that he works to remedy them. Hornby should also consider hiring someone who is a bit of a railway history nerd (I use that term with loving respect as an amateur railway history nerd). I know the people making models know their content area well, but they need to be well represented to the community by a spokesperson who understands the prototype. I think the public relations win from having someone who cares about little details would be totally worth the salary. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Wow, with all this speculation it's a wonder people have enough time to do any actual modelling......or maybe not until the boxes arrive! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porfuera Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said: But I think the elephant in the room when it comes to needing freight wagons are the Class 66s. [...] Arnold's container wagons are great, but we need the KFAs ASAP. If there's any wagon that Hornby might release in 2024, it has to be the KFAs. It's an essential wagon. Looking at the webstore, the Class 66s have been put back to Autumn so the KFAs now won't be needed until then at the very earliest, or more likely next year. The 66s keep getting delayed - maybe they've decided to concentrate more on earlier eras rather than have a very small selection of Era 11 locos and wagons. I'm sure we'll find out more in April! Edited March 16 by Porfuera 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericRMWebUsername Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said: Wow, with all this speculation it's a wonder people have enough time to do any actual modelling......or maybe not until the boxes arrive! Can't do any modeling at school... Speculating takes up less space in my room! 🤣 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewshimmin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Personally, if there is a surprise 0-6-0T, I hope it *isn't* a Jinty. I've got several of the Triang ones already! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michanglais Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 37 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said: Personally, if there is a surprise 0-6-0T, I hope it *isn't* a Jinty. I've got several of the Triang ones already! Ooooh, that comment will make you unpopular with some! lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletougos Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 8 hours ago, Porfuera said: Looking at the webstore, the Class 66s have been put back to Autumn so the KFAs now won't be needed until then at the very earliest, or more likely next year. The 66s keep getting delayed - maybe they've decided to concentrate more on earlier eras rather than have a very small selection of Era 11 locos and wagons. I'm sure we'll find out more in April! Excellent opportunity for someone to gazump them on a 66, with a 43'6" wheelbase mech, and then do E units and SD40-2s as well. You know it makes sense!! Edited March 16 by teletougos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewshimmin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 2 hours ago, Michanglais said: Ooooh, that comment will make you unpopular with some! lol I'm a LMS fan, I'd love an LMS 0-6-0T but for goodness sake do something interesting. Midland half cab or L&Y saddle tank, or (the connoisseurs choice) an LNW Ramsbottom tank. I'd honestly rather have the Austerity, Pannier, or (even better) the Terrier. Got some character. Jinties (class 3 tanks) are a bit generic and done to death. There's the Triang one and a nice 3mm kit too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) Re the Jinty, its the wrong scale, though, it's like saying there's an 00 version so why bother, it's irrelevant as we're discussing TT, not TT3 or 00. Personally I'd prefer a larger LMS tank, 2-6-4 sized, even the BR standard version would be nice. Edited March 16 by Hobby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewshimmin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 41 minutes ago, Hobby said: Re the Jinty, its the wrong scale, though, it's like saying there's an 00 version so why bother, it's irrelevant as we're discussing TT, not TT3 or 00. Personally I'd prefer a larger LMS tank, 2-6-4 sized, even the BR standard version would be nice. Yes an LMS 2-6-4T (ideally Stanier version but would accept Fowler or even Fairburn) would be a really good choice I think, and should sell well. Personally I'd prefer a Stanier 3P 2-6-2T. The 4P tanks were more suburban while the 3P were used on more rural branches - more likely to be modelled I'd expect. I like modelling urban but they'd work there too. Yes they were rotten engines but that doesn't matter for a model! They did their job for two or three decades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 hours ago, andrewshimmin said: I'm a LMS fan, I'd love an LMS 0-6-0T but for goodness sake do something interesting. Midland half cab or L&Y saddle tank, or (the connoisseurs choice) an LNW Ramsbottom tank. I'd honestly rather have the Austerity, Pannier, or (even better) the Terrier. Got some character. Jinties (class 3 tanks) are a bit generic and done to death. There's the Triang one and a nice 3mm kit too. Bit generic as there was only 422 of the things and 60 of the MR version.... However we are talking about TT120 so any other scales are irrelevant. But you do realise why they are available RTR in N, 00, O, etc.? Because they are essential and got virtually everywhere. BTW how does "generic and done to death " not include Panniers and Terriers (only 50 built)? There are even duplicated models of them in 00 gauge! Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewshimmin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: However we are talking about TT120 so any other scales are irrelevant. I appreciate it's irrelevant to most, but to me personally, it's highly relevant. I'm running my old Triang (and other 12mm gauge 3mm scale) stock on my layout along with the TT120. Not at the same time, but I have running days in each scale. So it's not very exciting to me to only have the option of a Jinty for a small steam tank engine... But I'm sure they have their fans... In real life I like them. But I think one of the miriad pre grouping 0-6-0Ts which survived all the way through to nationalisation would be a more interesting prototype. (Yes I know there were Midland versions of the Jinty, with subtle differences). Edited March 16 by andrewshimmin Reference to MR version Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Bit generic as there was only 422 of the things and 60 of the MR version.... I'll up the ante with 484 or 485 (depending who is counting) and 800 plus 57xx/8750 class... The J94 also got onto the Continent, admittedly the part where TT isn't really an active scale. Les 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 16 minutes ago, Les1952 said: I'll up the ante with 484 or 485 (depending who is counting) and 800 plus 57xx/8750 class... The J94 also got onto the Continent, admittedly the part where TT isn't really an active scale. Les They've already been announced though! Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletougos Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Imagine how dangerous a company with local in-house manufacturing capacity would be to Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
natterjack Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 hours ago, teletougos said: Imagine how dangerous a company with local in-house manufacturing capacity would be to Hornby. As probably noted elsewhere, Hornby is already trialing the reintroduction of UK plastic moulding production with their recently launched Airfix 1/24 Spitfire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted March 17 Author Moderators Share Posted March 17 4 hours ago, teletougos said: Imagine how dangerous a company with local in-house manufacturing capacity would be to Hornby. Manufacturing isn't necessarily a problem; decoration and assembly is. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewshimmin Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 5 hours ago, teletougos said: Imagine how dangerous a company with local in-house manufacturing capacity would be to Hornby. Only if it was also competitively priced and of comparable quality, of course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Compare the Peco 7 plank wagons to the Hornby ones...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 3 hours ago, AY Mod said: Manufacturing isn't necessarily a problem; decoration and assembly is. Which is why Dapol are working to make theirs even better. Their wagons already compare well with some others twice the price. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 I saw a Hornby TT loco today at Ally Pally with a price label over £200. This seems a lot higher than what they were selling them for directly so is it just the dealer’s mark-up (or even a mislabelling)? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 DCC perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Wernt Hornby telling people not to expect much? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletougos Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said: I saw a Hornby TT loco today at Ally Pally with a price label over £200. This seems a lot higher than what they were selling them for directly so is it just the dealer’s mark-up (or even a mislabelling)? Wow. That is pricey. But at Ally Pally I've learnt to expect not much more than the smell of chips and wee (not served together, I should add.) However, I did get a sneaky chassis for a TT scale 66. Needs the wheels taken out to gauge, but it cost me all of £40 ;) Edited March 17 by teletougos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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