Mourning the death of the traditional Estate car

[Nick C]

@SteveyDee68 Not sure whether to give you a 'supportive' for the first bit or a 'funny' for the footnote there...

 

That's why I won't buy a new car though, it's all too easy to get trapped into the finance agreements, which are designed to keep you paying forever - and it's money down the drain as most of it goes into either interest or depreciation. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Nick C

[2ManySpams]

Having been forced to change my car (which was a 13 plate Mondeo) when a nice lady driving on the wrong side of the road decided to use me as a crash cushion, I looked long and hard at what to get. The quest was aided by the temporary hire car being a Skoda and an interim loan from a dealer being a Volvo X60.

 

Having looked at the ubiquitous SUV types and concluded that many were either rubbish to drive, too big or too small inside, I looked at normal cars. Shocking now how few are now available that can accommodate a 1m x 1m board (Pencarrow) or a 1.5m long layout and associated junk (Polsarrett). 

 

I did look at the Skoda options but the driver interface set up really annoyed me. I eventually went for a nearly new Volvo V60. Was more than I planned to spend but nice to look at, can be fun to drive, really comfortable and accommodates moving train stuff. It's also something different.

 

Looking out of the house window towards the road though shows a sea of SUVs. I hoping the government will see this as a great opportunity for an environmental tax on pointless big boxes and sway the car markers and general public back to something a bit more realistic and vehicles that actually fit on roads or in spaces.

 

Bah humbug (but really enjoying the V60).

[johnofwessex]

My wife has a 57 plate diesel Kia Rio which like Old Man River just keeps rolling BUT new diesels have DPF's AdBlue etc etc which are nowhere near as long lasting as the engine

 

So I suggest petrol/Hybrid

 

Also I have hada Kia Ceed estate for the last year, not exactly the boy racers favourite but a pretty reasonable boot, pity the ground clearance isnt that great so dont bump uit over the kerb when fully loaded

[TheQ]

I have a i10 110, a Landrover 110, that's just pre defender. A fairly large space to carry layouts, but ironically my layout goes in a trailer only a 4ft by 6ft load area, for which I've built a hard top.

Many cars could tow that, so you could have a smaller car with trailer. The Landrover doesn't notice the trailer on the back and gets 32mpg 

 

As for our car, a Kia Rio it couldn't carry that layout, but it could carry out the next layout. 

The Rio has now done 135,000 miles and is due for replacement.. At the moment the Berlingo is the favourite for obvious reasons. Namely doggy In the Avatar is getting old and needs a lower step into the back. Well that's my excuse anyway...

 

[cravensdmufan]

20 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Rubbish. The Berlingo is nippy and agile. A proper car might be slightly more relaxing over long distances, but I have plentyof long runs under my belt too and its fine.  

Another vote for the Berlingo Multispace from me.

 

I owned an M49 2002 Forte for 15 years.   Now have a 2016 B9 XTR 1.6 HDi and it's absolutely brilliant. 

 

Very comfortable, great seats with armrests, aircon etc.  Well sound proofed too.  Lots of storage, cubby holes etc.  Took it to France in the autumn. Cruised beautifully and effortlessly at 130kph on French toll roads.  Great engine torque.   Limoges (central France) to South Lincolnshire on three quarters tank of diesel.

 

 And the 3 rear seats are easily and individually removable so you can use it as a van.  Absolutely love this vehicle.

Edited January 13, 2023 by cravensdmufan
Additional wording

[monkeysarefun]

On 13/01/2023 at 10:21, SRman said:

Further to my post from 2nd November 2022, while trawling through some old files on my train room computer after upgrading it, I found a photo of my previous Holden Commodore wagon, a 1994 model that I only kept for 8 years. It was versatile for load carrying, as all the wagons and utes were built on a longer wheelbase.

The coach was actually our very comfortable accommodation at End of the Line, a little outside of Daylesford, here in Victoria.

 

 

 

All those old-school station wagons were great for carting stuff. The Commy,  Falcon and even the Mitsubishi Magna, all missed. I remember carting a Magna wagon full of stuff from Darwin down to the RAAF Tindal airbase in the Northern Territory in the early 2000's.  Unlimited speed limit on the Stuart Highway, sat on 180kmh  for 2 hours, aircon on full and still returned 8.2Litres per 100km, as we state fuel consumption here (just under 30mpg). No SUV holds nearly what they did. If we need to hire a car these days to carry the same amount, no rentable SUV will cope, we need to get a transit van.

 

Utes are the same now, all Asian or American designed, Tonka Toy looking, massive and so tall that you cant see around them, its a real challenge  to park beside one and be able to open your door  but despite that with a load carrying capacity smaller than the old car-based Aussie utes. 

They'll have to prize the keys to my Holden ute from my cold dead hands. Old-school 6 speed and 6 litres of V8, and can get a proper load in the back. (Also with the craze for Australian V8's now, they are fetching nearly twice what I paid for it second hand in 2013! so yay to that too.)

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Mike 84C]

Skoda Octavia for me, my 07 reg one, 164000 mls still does 60mpg has only failed twice in 12yrs I have owned it! the back folds nearly flat and will hold 4, 4ftx2ft base boards. Still got its factory fitted exhaust!   Only problem on the horizon is its a Euro 3 engine and the proliferation of LEZ's may hasten its demize.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Mike 84C said:

Only problem on the horizon is its a Euro 3 engine and the proliferation of LEZ's may hasten its demize.

 

Just put a Volkswagen badge on it!

 

Mike.

[tomparryharry]

We've had Citroen or Peugeot vehicles here. By far & away the best of these is a Berlingo fitted with a 2.0 litre diesel.  It looks unremarkable, but goes like poo off a paddle. The later 1.6 & 1.9 models have less gusto, so if you want/need to keep up in traffic, then it'll get thirsty. Right now I've got a partner 1.6, which is perfect for my requirements.

 

If you're having a cam belt change (100,000 miles ) then replace the water pump as well. They have approximately the same lifespan, and are designed to be replaced on the same overhaul operation. On motorway work, I let the   engine 'sit down' at about 2,500 RPM, and it'll go forever.

[Nick C]

As a follow up to my posts here the other day - the Astra proved it's usefulness today, I managed to fit a 1800x750x450mm sideboard in the back, and still close the tailgate...

[JZ]

Owned three estates over the years. First was a Citroen CX Safari, with a 2.5 diesel. Could get 46mpg on a run.

Massive load carrying, almost 7ft clear, flat space in the back.

 

Next up was the Saab 9-5 2.2TiD, 56mpg and a big tank. I could get from Bath, to the north coast of Scotland and back to Inverness on a tank.

Big load space and superb comfort. Of all the cars I've had, this is the one I miss the most.

 

Then a Saab 9-3 TTiD. 1.9 twin turbo. Not as economical as the 9-5 at around 40 on my commute and just better than 50 on a long run.

 

Now I have this.

KIA Niro self charging hybrid.. Necessary change due to the low emission zone in Bristol. I have to drive through about 100 metres of it to and from work. While it has a shortish load space in the boot, due to having loads of leg space in the rear seats, it is surprisingly spacious with the seat down. Can get 80mpg on the way to work and around 65 going home. I live about 300ft higher than work, so use more electric going than returning.

[johnofwessex]

On 13/01/2023 at 16:38, TheQ said:

..........................

 

As for our car, a Kia Rio it couldn't carry that layout, but it could carry out the next layout. 

The Rio has now done 135,000 miles and is due for replacement.. .....................

 

 

No its not, its just reached the end of the running in period.........

[37114]

5 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

No its not, its just reached the end of the running in period.........

Agree... I looked on the DVLA at my various Mondeo estates I have owned/had as company cars last night all still on the road but the 2 oldest ones are both north of 200k miles:

2010 estate -I had from new to 125k miles, now on 345K+

2015 estate - I had from new to 60k miles, now on 238k +

 

I pity the person who has the 2010 one now, my wife spilt cream on the passenger footwell 12 months before the lease finished. Despite trying all of the well known tricks for getting rid of the stale cream smell we never managed it and I couldn't wait to get rid of that car.

[Re6/6]

I bought my Jeep a couple of years ago now. The reasons for the purchase were firstly the comfortable height for an elderly bloke to get in and out of and secondly and more importantly (!) a spacious back compartment for layout transport.

 

Every layout board that I now make will not exceed 145cms. 'Marsh Sidings' which is 5m x 0.5m will all fit inside.😺

 

 

 

[monkeysarefun]

8 hours ago, 37114 said:

Agree... I looked on the DVLA at my various Mondeo estates I have owned/had as company cars last night all still on the road but the 2 oldest ones are both north of 200k miles:

2010 estate -I had from new to 125k miles, now on 345K+

2015 estate - I had from new to 60k miles, now on 238k +

 

The 2006 and onwards Mondeos were imported here as a "medium" sized car to slot under the Ford Falcon. I bought a 2006 TDCI Hatch new in late 2006, its done 435,000klm without a single cent needing to be  spent on it other than standard servicing. My drive to work and back is about 50km each way along a country road where I hit the brakes about twice each trip, hence I'm still on the second pair of brake pads.

 

Amazing what I can fit into the back of that, only the sloping back limits large square items, but I have the ute for them. I bought a replacement car in 2016 but couldn't bring myself to trade it in on it so its semi-retired now and sits unstarted for weeks at a time yet will still start first try. This year I will probably dispose of it, 3 cars is getting a bit extravagant, but I will miss it, I've certainly never felt the need to keep a car for 17 years before!  By far the most reliable, economic trouble-free car I've ever had. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Kris]

I am another lover of estates. I currently run a Skoda Octavia VRS petrol, the less said about the fuel economy the better, but it sure goes. I've owned if from new and over the last 7 years it has been very reliable. It's not as comfortable as the Volvo's but it is comfortable enough for for long journeys (400 - 500 miles in a day).

 

Previously I have had a Volvo V40 and V70. Both of these were petrol and lovely cars to drive and they were super comfortable. The worst estate I ever owned was a Saab 9-5, an absolute dog of a car with more faults than you could shake a stick at. 

[jjb1970]

I am a big fan of estate cars, the best car I ever owned was a Subaru Legacy estate. I've always considered them much better than soft roaders. However, before leaving England I softened my position, we tested a few soft roader SUVs and they were practical family cars which were nice to drive and really very good. Would I buy one? Well not in Singapore, but if we return to England I think it'd depend on what was on the market at that time and what deals were available. I like the Mercedes Benz GLA as a compact hatchback, to me it is the car the A Class should have been as it addresses the compromised practicality of the A Class.

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

....... I like the Mercedes Benz GLA as a compact hatchback, to me it is the car the A Class should have been as it addresses the compromised practicality of the A Class.

 

I take it are you referring to the mk1 GLA  (2014-20), which was indeed, a better and much roomier version of the first hatchback A Class.... 

....(the older mk1 and mk2 A-Class's being a different type of car altogether, more like mini people movers).

At launch, a couple of car reviews did say it was the car the A class should have been.

I concur, as my wife looked at both and chose the GLA  (The difference was like chalk and cheese).

With the rear seats folded flat, the load space was more than adequate for loading a layout.

 

They ruined the look and lines of that first model of GLA, when they facelifted it and started churning them out with a stupidly raised suspension, to mimic other competing crossovers, which looked more SUV in styling.

 

The new mk2 GLA which was introduced in 2020, is quite different though.

Very much in the small crossover/SUV styling and far removed in looks from the new (2018 to present day) model A Class that it's based on.

The boot space is not great though and even worst in the EQA EV version.

 

 

.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[tomparryharry]

One of the problems with the latest EV-SUV, is overloading. You used to be able to load up the van, and the diesel would chug all the way there & back. Nowadays, the EV is a different story. More weight means less mileage. car manufacturers are consciously making boot spaces ever smaller, in order to mitigate against smaller range ability. 

[jjb1970]

11 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

I take it are you referring to the mk1 GLA  (2014-20), which was indeed, a better and much roomier version of the first hatchback A Class.... 

....(the older mk1 and mk2 A-Class's being a different type of car altogether, more like mini people movers).

At launch, a couple of car reviews did say it was the car the A class should have been.

I concur, as my wife looked at both and chose the GLA  (The difference was like chalk and cheese).

With the rear seats folded flat, the load space was more than adequate for loading a layout.

 

They ruined the look and lines of that first model of GLA, when they facelifted it and started churning them out with a stupidly raised suspension, to mimic other competing crossovers, which looked more SUV in styling.

 

The new mk2 GLA which was introduced in 2020, is quite different though.

Very much in the small crossover/SUV styling and far removed in looks from the new (2018 to present day) model A Class that it's based on.

The boot space is not great though and even worst in the EQA EV version.

 

 

.

 

I am guessing the old one. We stopped looking at cars when the opportunity of coming out here was raised, and I've lost interest in cars since being here (it's surprising how quickly you can lose interest in something if it stops being relevant).

[idd15]

11 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

One of the problems with the latest EV-SUV, is overloading. You used to be able to load up the van, and the diesel would chug all the way there & back. Nowadays, the EV is a different story. More weight means less mileage. car manufacturers are consciously making boot spaces ever smaller, in order to mitigate against smaller range ability. 

That's a new one, I rather think you may have become a victim of anti ev FUD. Having driven an EV for the past 6 years including numerous trips to ferry No1 daughter to and from Uni with it stuffed to the gunwhales, I cannot say I noticed any meaningful reduction in range for the Leaf when loaded up.

 

A reduction in boot capacity is more likely due to some manufacturers just bunging in a bigger battery to overcome poor design. KIA and Hyundai being notable exceptions with their efficient SUV type designs.

 

There will be two new EV estates released this year from Peugeot and Vauxhall. So whilst some will invariably baulk at the drivetrain it does show there is still a future demand for the estate car.

Idd

 

 

 

 

 

[tomparryharry]

57 minutes ago, idd15 said:

That's a new one, I rather think you may have become a victim of anti ev FUD. Having driven an EV for the past 6 years including numerous trips to ferry No1 daughter to and from Uni with it stuffed to the gunwhales, I cannot say I noticed any meaningful reduction in range for the Leaf when loaded up.

 

A reduction in boot capacity is more likely due to some manufacturers just bunging in a bigger battery to overcome poor design. KIA and Hyundai being notable exceptions with their efficient SUV type designs.

 

There will be two new EV estates released this year from Peugeot and Vauxhall. So whilst some will invariably baulk at the drivetrain it does show there is still a future demand for the estate car.

Idd

Not quite me, I'm afraid. I know full well that car manufacturers will continue to improve in terms of range & payload, but not yet within the lifetime requirements of my present vehicles.  I keep abreast of improvements in EV, but  presently 'not just yet'. It's not the fault of the EV, per se, but the requirements of this operator (me).

 

I'm also fully aware that once sufficient vehicles are 'on the road' then government  will change the Road Fund rates. Call me a cynic, but government is always short of money. 

 

 

[30801]

28 minutes ago, idd15 said:

That's a new one, I rather think you may have become a victim of anti ev FUD. Having driven an EV for the past 6 years including numerous trips to ferry No1 daughter to and from Uni with it stuffed to the gunwhales, I cannot say I noticed any meaningful reduction in range for the Leaf when loaded up.

 

A reduction in boot capacity is more likely due to some manufacturers just bunging in a bigger battery to overcome poor design. KIA and Hyundai being notable exceptions with their efficient SUV type designs.

 

Totally agree on the range.

The EV Mii I had had exceptional packaging meaning zero intrusion anywhere from the battery. No reduction in boot space at all. However the MGVW remained the same despite the car being 200kg heavier so if you were taking three fat lads you might not also be able to take their pies.

[tomparryharry]

4 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

Totally agree on the range.

The EV Mii I had had exceptional packaging meaning zero intrusion anywhere from the battery. No reduction in boot space at all. However the MGVW remained the same despite the car being 200kg heavier so if you were taking three fat lads you might not also be able to take their pies.

Come along young man; be specific! What types of pie are we discussing? Steak & Kidney, minced beef & onion, chicken, or chicken Balti?

These things are important, don'tcha know!

 

Ray Bentos.