Bachmann Winter 2022 Announcements

[57xx]

9 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

A brief interjection from the Chief Pedant and Geographer in Residence

 

Saltaire

 

Saltaire is a Victorian model village in Shipley, part of the City of Bradford Metropolitan District, in West Yorkshire, England.  

 

whereas:

 

Saltire

 

A saltire, also called Saint Andrew's Cross or the crux decussata, is a heraldic symbol in the form of a diagonal cross and the widely recognised flag of Scotland.

 

 

 

Now, the West Yorkshire Metro 158/9s visited Saltaire, and former Saltire-liveried 170s now work to Saltaire, so I understand there could be confusion, but...

 

 

Isn't saltaire wot you breathe down at the seaside?

[JohnR]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

What sort of location do you have in mind? 

 

My own focus is the East Devon branch lines, but also anywhere on the Withered Arm

[Dunsignalling]

40 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

My own focus is the East Devon branch lines, but also anywhere on the Withered Arm

The usual provision on the East Devon branches in the fifties was the 1930s rebuilt stock as modelled by Hornby, later replaced with Maunsell corridors.

 

I haven't yet gone through my usual photo books looking for pics of them in action West of Exeter but my instinct is that 3-sets of any kind would be more likely to appear on stopping services to Plymouth, Barnstaple or Ilfracombe rather than on the skinnier bits of the Withered Arm.

 

Again, mid-1950s photos showing them in action tend to be dated in high summer, leading me to suspect that, by then, they saw little or no use for much of the year.

 

John

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Of those, the only one announced since 2020 (when Bachmann changed policy) is the Precedent — and like the Caley Goods and the forthcoming G5) it is a commission. So not Bachmann's choice, as it were. The only completely new item in Bachmann Branchline standard gauge announced since then and introduced is the Dance Hall Brake Van. Everything else was a newly-tooled version of a diesel that was already in the range — 20/24/37/47.

 

If you're waiting for a steam loco that hasn't been done yet, a Rails of Sheffield Exclusive or Dapol (especially if it's GWR) or Rapido Trains are the best bet, possibly Hornby if it's either big and glamorous or a small industrial. Bachmann appear to have largely given up on steam.

Mine quite definitely say Bachmann on the box and the model.

Your forgetting who Bachmanns customer is.

 

if its 1 shop buying the lot, or a lot of shops buying 1.. it doesnt change the fact they made it and sold it.

 

If 2020 was your decided cut off date, for your argument. then delete all the diesels too, as they indicated working on them years before hand, the 158 was 7 years coming.

 

if you want to argue credibly, at least be consistent.

 

Bachmann imo have been fairly consistent in steam and diesel production, its just how the products reach the consumer that differed. If you dont like that, well thats a different story.

Edited November 3, 2022 by adb968008

[shunny]

Anyone wanting a ScotRail 158 with sound I would order ASAP my local shop has been informed there are only 150 being produced. I assume the other 2 158 models will be similar quantity 

[TomScrut]

32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Mine quite definitely say Bachmann on the box and the model.

Your forgetting who Bachmanns customer is.

 

Like the thing is, whilst it is absolutely fair in my opinion to say that the exclusives have been suggested and funded by the shop and might not have happened had they not been there to take that risk, it is also fair that Bachmann (or anyone else) who is developing this stuff to make use of the knowledge of what is under development to make their future choices.

 

If these dealer exclusives are all steam, it is logical to suggest that maybe main ranges need to be wary about making more themselves.

[adb968008]

57 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Like the thing is, whilst it is absolutely fair in my opinion to say that the exclusives have been suggested and funded by the shop and might not have happened had they not been there to take that risk, it is also fair that Bachmann (or anyone else) who is developing this stuff to make use of the knowledge of what is under development to make their future choices.

 

If these dealer exclusives are all steam, it is logical to suggest that maybe main ranges need to be wary about making more themselves.

Whilst controversial, I think Steam is reaching some kind of peak in demand/price.

If it means moving some risk to a select customer, then it makes sense.

 

Whether thats down to assembly cost, complexity, price, paint or just plain demand, I’m not going to guess. But Bachmann isnt alone in commissioning locos for a specific customer.. Dapol, Heljan even Rapido have done it, Steam & Diesel…. Even the Accurascale 89 is with Rails.

But they still made ‘em, and that ties up men, resources and factory time to do it.

Weve seen in the past, after a few years air gap, the original manufacturer bring them back to mass market.. like the Hattons 14/28, Bachmann 205 etc.

I’m surprised more havent resurfaced.. Dapols 10000/1 for example… very few toolings dissapear without trace.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whilst controversial, I think Steam is reaching some kind of peak in demand/price.

 

Maybe so, but that's the thing with exclusives. They do still enter a market with £X to spend, which in most cases there is little overlap between steam and diesel/electric meaning if they did 2 exclusive steamers they might not want to tool one up themselves because it's too much at once for the market, so they do a diesel instead.

 

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

If it means moving some risk to a select customer, then it makes sense

 

It's pretty much all the risk isn't it? Assuming they actually deliver what they promise.

 

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Weve seen in the past, after a few years air gap, the original manufacturer bring them back to mass market..

 

Latest example I think is Rapido with the APT-E?

[richierich]

On 02/11/2022 at 11:32, LNERandBR said:

When did the 158's appear in WYPTE livery?

WYPTE ordered 10, delivered in 1990 for use on the Calder Valley services. 

[richierich]

Very pleased with the WYPTE 158/9 😀

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whilst controversial, I think Steam is reaching some kind of peak in demand/price.

If it means moving some risk to a select customer, then it makes sense.

 

Whether thats down to assembly cost, complexity, price, paint or just plain demand, I’m not going to guess. But Bachmann isnt alone in commissioning locos for a specific customer.. Dapol, Heljan even Rapido have done it, Steam & Diesel…. Even the Accurascale 89 is with Rails.

But they still made ‘em, and that ties up men, resources and factory time to do it.

Weve seen in the past, after a few years air gap, the original manufacturer bring them back to mass market.. like the Hattons 14/28, Bachmann 205 etc.

I’m surprised more havent resurfaced.. Dapols 10000/1 for example… very few toolings dissapear without trace.

 

 

 

 

 

And, if a manufacturer has taken on a number of steam commissions and few/none of non-steam subjects, that will tend to skew any product discussion within the company in favour of diesels/electrics.

 

Just as modellers have personal preferences and particular abilities, I'm guessing that most professional designers/developers will be more comfortable/effective when working on one or the other so if "one side" is heavily employed on commissions, the other is likely to get more "in house" work.  

 

John

Edited November 4, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, richierich said:

WYPTE ordered 10, delivered in 1990 for use on the Calder Valley services. 

Seems a very niche choice

[GordonC]

3 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Seems a very niche choice

 

They were colourful and distinctive and got a fair distance away from WYPTE across the north of England. It wouldn't have been my first choice of livery to produce, but can see why it has. Personally, I'm happy enough with the previous release in the same livery.

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The usual provision on the East Devon branches in the fifties was the 1930s rebuilt stock as modelled by Hornby, later replaced with Maunsell corridors.

 

I haven't yet gone through my usual photo books looking for pics of them in action West of Exeter but my instinct is that 3-sets of any kind would be more likely to appear on stopping services to Plymouth, Barnstaple or Ilfracombe rather than on the skinnier bits of the Withered Arm.

 

Again, mid-1950s photos showing them in action tend to be dated in high summer, leading me to suspect that, by then, they saw little or no use for much of the year.

 

John

 

Picture on p.212 of The Okehampton Line (Irwell Press) shows a set behind an M7 on a Plymouth-Tavistock local in 1951.

 

Not a branch working but clearly, they didn't just work through from Exeter.

 

John

Edited November 4, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[The Black Hat]

12 hours ago, shunny said:

Anyone wanting a ScotRail 158 with sound I would order ASAP my local shop has been informed there are only 150 being produced. I assume the other 2 158 models will be similar quantity 

Any confirmation on that from anyone else? That sounds like not very many from a batch that would usually be bigger to cover costs and sales to market. 

[43179]

Interesting -  it Looks like Bachmann have removed the overscale heavy seam lines from the cabsides on the 158 - nice . The WYPTE one does look lovely.

Jon 

[GordonC]

16 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Any confirmation on that from anyone else? That sounds like not very many from a batch that would usually be bigger to cover costs and sales to market. 

 

I expect the production run will be more, but just 150 of those will be factory sound fitted and the rest will be DCC ready

[shunny]

51 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Any confirmation on that from anyone else? That sounds like not very many from a batch that would usually be bigger to cover costs and sales to market. 

That was purely the sound version as he had tried to order extra but was told they are all allocated and there were only 150 made.

[Scottish-Exile]

19 minutes ago, shunny said:

That was purely the sound version as he had tried to order extra but was told they are all allocated and there were only 150 made.

 

I've asked my local model shop this morning to try and order me one. It's pretty much an impulse buy so we'll see if I'm lucky or not with their allocation.

[MikeParkin65]

On 03/11/2022 at 12:53, The Black Hat said:

Will be interesting to see the chip fitted and set up, but essentially these are an old model made again with the sound chips fitted. The price increase for this is significant when your getting the older model with a chip fitted. 

 

Not sure I can agree with this in respect of the WD, 90448 was around the £130 mark (rtr) when new and I recall (because I wanted one) that even hanging on until they were old stock they didnt drop below £100. The new sound fitted version seems to be £263 at most retailers which if you allow £120 for buying a chip and a speaker as seperate components leave the new model at around £140. £263 is a decent price for a new sound fitted model - comparable to the forth coming Accurascale Manor and old tooling or not there isnt another WD on the market.

[matchmaker]

17 hours ago, shunny said:

Anyone wanting a ScotRail 158 with sound I would order ASAP my local shop has been informed there are only 150 being produced. I assume the other 2 158 models will be similar quantity 

Kernow are already sold out of the Scotrail one on preorder! I managed to order one from TMC.

Edited November 4, 2022 by matchmaker

[D9020 Nimbus]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

if you want to argue credibly, at least be consistent.

 

Bachmann imo have been fairly consistent in steam and diesel production, it’s just how the products reach the consumer that differed. If you dont like that, well thats a different story.

The point I was making is that for commissioned models, the choice of prototype is made by the commissioner, not by Bachmann — and it is the choice of prototype which determines what gets produced. Bachmann are clearly capable of producing any type of motive power, but based on the evidence of the last few years, they are unlikely to produce steam outline standard gauge models on their own account, given that in three years of announcements, they haven't chosen a single one.

 

I see no inconsistency whatsoever. Had Rails not chosen the Precedent, Bachmann wouldn't have produced it. The same applies to the G5, which in any case was announced before 2020!

 

By my reckoning, considering only powered models that have been announced and introduced by Bachmann in standard gauge OO since 2020, there have been:

 

Diesel: 20, 24, 37, 47 — all new tooling versions of something already in the range

Steam: none

 

If you don't like that, well that's a different story.

[Steamport Southport]

12 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The point I was making is that for commissioned models, the choice of prototype is made by the commissioner, not by Bachmann — and it is the choice of prototype which determines what gets produced. Bachmann are clearly capable of producing any type of motive power, but based on the evidence of the last few years, they are unlikely to produce steam outline standard gauge models on their own account, given that in three years of announcements, they haven't chosen a single one.

 

I see no inconsistency whatsoever. Had Rails not chosen the Precedent, Bachmann wouldn't have produced it. The same applies to the G5, which in any case was announced before 2020!

 

By my reckoning, considering only powered models that have been announced and introduced by Bachmann in standard gauge OO since 2020, there have been:

 

Diesel: 20, 24, 37, 47 — all new tooling versions of something already in the range

Steam: none

 

If you don't like that, well that's a different story.

 

Not necessarily.

 

I heard that many of them are offered around by the manufacturers who are planning the model anyway.

 

It shares the cost and the retailer get an exclusive.

 

 

Jason

[Widnes Model Centre]

4 hours ago, Scottish-Exile said:

 

I've asked my local model shop this morning to try and order me one. It's pretty much an impulse buy so we'll see if I'm lucky or not with their allocation.

You have been.

[TomScrut]

18 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

they are unlikely to produce steam outline standard gauge models on their own account, given that in three years of announcements, they haven't chosen a single one.

 

Yes but that is also missing the point I made in reply to @adb968008. If Bachmann are doing a load of steam exclusives then that would surely have an impact on what they do in the main range, both in terms of market saturation and also their internal resources?

 

The other thing is that it does seem to me like the D&E market is far more "you snooze you lose" in terms of the tooling. If they hadn't done the 20, 24, 37 & 47 then where would those previously existing models stand? 3 of those 4 have competition from elsewhere, and I think the 20 would have been a sitting duck had they not reacted. How many people have tooled up a rival to a Bachmann steamer recently? The 9F is the only example I can think of, and that was to update an existing rival rather than being a new one.

Edited November 5, 2022 by TomScrut