Bachmann Winter 2022 Announcements

[Dunsignalling]

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes but that is also missing the point I made in reply to @adb968008. If Bachmann are doing a load of steam exclusives then that would surely have an impact on what they do in the main range, both in terms of market saturation and also their internal resources?

 

The other thing is that it does seem to me like the D&E market is far more "you snooze you lose" in terms of the tooling. If they hadn't done the 20, 24, 37 & 47 then where would those previously existing models stand? 3 of those 4 have competition from elsewhere, and I think the 20 would have been a sitting duck had they not reacted. How many people have tooled up a rival to a Bachmann steamer recently? The 9F is the only example I can think of.

Also, of course, the number of "staple" diesel classes is tiny, both compared with steam equivalents and in absolute terms.

 

Any manufacturer choosing to make those has to accept they are joining a permanent arms race and pray that they don't come up against SLW's next pick.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Also, of course, the number of "staple" diesel classes is tiny, both compared with steam equivalents and in absolute terms.

 

Any manufacturer choosing to make those has to accept they are joining a permanent arms race and pray that they don't come up against SLW's next pick.

 

John

And why Accurascale, Heljan and Bachmann now turn out these diesels in a variety of liveries/versions in very short succession.

 

Such activity has a detrimental impact on capacity to produce other models for Bachmann, they will only have so much capacity from Kader and they have to judge what goes where and when.  This will be impacted further by the competition - it's a race to be first and Bachmann got there with sealed beam Peaks (although not in /1 guise) and with the 47.  You have to think that effort probably took project and design resource away from other models (and scales).

[Mallard60022]

........and the Music goes round and round oooooooh and it comes out here....yet again.

Wibble wibble. Handbags and glad-rags. They are just models chaps.

P

[Dunsignalling]

29 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And why Accurascale, Heljan and Bachmann now turn out these diesels in a variety of liveries/versions in very short succession.

 

Such activity has a detrimental impact on capacity to produce other models for Bachmann, they will only have so much capacity from Kader and they have to judge what goes where and when.  This will be impacted further by the competition - it's a race to be first and Bachmann got there with sealed beam Peaks (although not in /1 guise) and with the 47.  You have to think that effort probably took project and design resource away from other models (and scales).

 

All of which goes some way to explaining Hornby's continuing emphasis on steam-outline models, and their apparent reluctance to invest in producing "full fat" equivalents of items they took over from Lima.

 

I think we can expect their up-market range to become increasingly polarised between steam prototypes and post-privatisation new build stock which, looking around, could turn out to be quite a smart move. 

 

John

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

All of which goes some way to explaining Hornby's continuing emphasis on steam-outline models, and their apparent reluctance to invest in producing "full fat" equivalents of items they took over from Lima.

 

I think we can expect their up-market range to become increasingly polarised between steam prototypes and post-privatisation new build stock which, looking around, could turn out to be quite a smart move. 

 

John

And TT of course which they hope to corner the market and there can churn out BR diesels to their hearts content.

 

If Bachmann, Heljan and Accurascale stick with their current scales Hornby has that gauge sewed up - with it's focus on OO, 009 and N I don't see Bachmann having the capacity, Heljan have already reversed their initial foray and Accurascale are doing fine with OO and O giving them plenty of time to consider when the right time to do a TT version of one or more of their range is.

[Suzy Sulzer]

20 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The point I was making is that for commissioned models, the choice of prototype is made by the commissioner, not by Bachmann — and it is the choice of prototype which determines what gets produced. Bachmann are clearly capable of producing any type of motive power, but based on the evidence of the last few years, they are unlikely to produce steam outline standard gauge models on their own account, given that in three years of announcements, they haven't chosen a single one.

 

I see no inconsistency whatsoever. Had Rails not chosen the Precedent, Bachmann wouldn't have produced it. The same applies to the G5, which in any case was announced before 2020!

 

By my reckoning, considering only powered models that have been announced and introduced by Bachmann in standard gauge OO since 2020, there have been:

 

Diesel: 20, 24, 37, 47 — all new tooling versions of something already in the range

Steam: none

 

If you don't like that, well that's a different story.

Reference re-tooling's Warship was first diesel then 03 , As for Steam LNER  B1  BR 75xxx & GWR  Hall. & probably others will follow i dare say . 

[Dunsignalling]

8 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And TT of course which they hope to corner the market and there can churn out BR diesels to their hearts content.

 

If Bachmann, Heljan and Accurascale stick with their current scales Hornby has that gauge sewed up - with it's focus on OO, 009 and N I don't see Bachmann having the capacity, Heljan have already reversed their initial foray and Accurascale are doing fine with OO and O giving them plenty of time to consider when the right time to do a TT version of one or more of their range is.

Unlike Hornby, most of their competitors already have a presence in at least two scales.  

 

TT:120 is Hornby's "second scale", specifically chosen to avoid entering one in which others have built up experience and an understanding of the market that Hornby would not have at the outset.

 

The "right time" for any of them to jump aboard Hornby's bandwagon will be when Hornby's accounts show that there is actually a bandwagon to jump aboard. That's going to be years rather than months.

 

John

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, Suzy Sulzer said:

Reference re-tooling's Warship was first diesel then 03 , As for Steam LNER  B1  BR 75xxx & GWR  Hall. & probably others will follow i dare say . 

None of which were all that recent.

 

Bachmann's V2 and J72 were full retools but the steam locos in the current set of announcements seem to be chassis upgrades to accommodate DCC sound.

 

John

[D9020 Nimbus]

There was going to be a re-tooled 75xxx but it was never mentioned again after Hornby introduced theirs. Hornby have also done the B1. The J39 was going to receive a chassis retool but the idea was withdrawn due to "economic circumstances" when the economy was a lot better than now.

 

Strictly speaking the Warship wasn't a retool but a new version — class 43 rather than 42. I'd ignored the 03 because that was Mainline tooling, whereas the recent batch — announced since 2020, remember — were all comparatively recent tooling.

 

I thought the 03 was actually before the 43.

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Also, of course, the number of "staple" diesel classes is tiny, both compared with steam equivalents and in absolute terms.

 

Any manufacturer choosing to make those has to accept they are joining a permanent arms race and pray that they don't come up against SLW's next pick.

 

John

If it wasnt profitable, they wouldnt do it.

 

Its only models and emotion to us, its profit and loss to them.

 

If diesels means money, with less risk, diesels it is.

 

If selling 100% of a steam loco batch to one / two retailers is less financial risk than making one to sell nationally, stored in your own warehouse and on your own balance sheet, then thats the way to go….

 

End result is still the same.. its made, the consumer has it and its in a Bachmann box.

 

tbh I dont see what the issue is ? Its not as if you have to be a club member to buy it… both Rails/Locomotion are available to everyone.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by adb968008

[57xx]

20 hours ago, TomScrut said:

How many people have tooled up a rival to a Bachmann steamer recently? The 9F is the only example I can think of, and that was to update an existing rival rather than being a new one.

 

Depends on what you mean by "recently" , but you mean like the Manor and 43xx?

[shunny]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Also, of course, the number of "staple" diesel classes is tiny, both compared with steam equivalents and in absolute terms.

 

Any manufacturer choosing to make those has to accept they are joining a permanent arms race and pray that they don't come up against SLW's next pick.

 

John

The other way of looking at this is the fact the numbers of diesel classes is lower actually means you sell more, if you are a modeling say steam era in say Cornwall you buy mainly GWR loco's, modelling Anglia you buy LNER, modelling North West you buy LMS or Kent you buy SR. nor depending on time from 1923 to 1968 some locos might be too late or too early for you or wrong part of that system. Yes some areas had cross over and you also had BR standards crossing regions. Now take the class 47 for example from 1963 to present modeler's in every region across most time frames will need one and many will take multiple in various liveries. So even with duplication and many versions already produced the number bought and variations available to produce make it a good investment. 

[Dunsignalling]

30 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Depends on what you mean by "recently" , but you mean like the Manor and 43xx?

Both of those are split-chassis ancient history. Neither has been catalogued by Bachmann for at least a decade, so they are unlikely to be surprised by others taking them on. Had they cared about "losing" them they would have done something about them years ago. 

 

With few exceptions, Bachmann's interest in their steam back catalogue seldom seems to extend beyond equipping them to accept DCC sound installations.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, shunny said:

The other way of looking at this is the fact the numbers of diesel classes is lower actually means you sell more, if you are a modeling say steam era in say Cornwall you buy mainly GWR loco's, modelling Anglia you buy LNER, modelling North West you buy LMS or Kent you buy SR. nor depending on time from 1923 to 1968 some locos might be too late or too early for you or wrong part of that system. Yes some areas had cross over and you also had BR standards crossing regions. Now take the class 47 for example from 1963 to present modeler's in every region across most time frames will need one and many will take multiple in various liveries. So even with duplication and many versions already produced the number bought and variations available to produce make it a good investment. 

Where Southern steam was concerned, there was relatively little difference beyond liveries in most areas between 1923 and 1963. Of the pre-group classes, M7s, T9s and E4s moved about a bit, but not much else!

 

I agree on the universality of (for instance) the ubiquitous Class 47, and many have collections of them that make my 42-strong fleet of Bulleid Pacifics pale into insignificance. At least, I think it's still 42, but I should really do a stock take!

 

That said, those 47s still running on the national network will, by now, be as much altered from their as-built condition as any steam loco was after more than half a century in service. It was said, even before large-scale withdrawals began, that there were no two exactly the same.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[57xx]

16 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Both of those are split-chassis ancient history. Neither has been catalogued by Bachmann for at least a decade, so they are unlikely to be surprised by others taking them on. Had they cared about "losing" them they would have done something about them years ago. 

 

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was merely pointing out "steamers" that other companies decided to take up the baton on that the OP hadn't listed.

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was merely pointing out "steamers" that other companies decided to take up the baton on that the OP hadn't listed.

 

Yes and I wasn't aware Bachmann did those because they are ancient history as such. So thanks for pointing them out, I did leave an element of uncertainty in my statement!

[57xx]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes and I wasn't aware Bachmann did those because they are ancient history as such. So thanks for pointing them out, I did leave an element of uncertainty in my statement!

 

They are old and were ripe for picking, eventually and thankfully.

[Mallard60022]

32 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Both of those are split-chassis ancient history. Neither has been catalogued by Bachmann for at least a decade, so they are unlikely to be surprised by others taking them on. Had they cared about "losing" them they would have done something about them years ago. 

 

With few exceptions, Bachmann's interest in their steam back catalogue seldom seems to extend beyond equipping them to accept DCC sound installations.

 

John

Fortunately, they still like Standard Class 5s! Unfortunately, so do I!

P

[Dunsignalling]

43 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Fortunately, they still like Standard Class 5s! Unfortunately, so do I!

P

 

And, credit where it is due, my King Leodegrance seems to be rather more improved over my older examples than they have let on.

 

John

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

Depends on what you mean by "recently" , but you mean like the Manor and 43xx?

Seriously… Bachmanns Mainlines manor and 43xx are 40 years old.

If your going that far back, then just about everything tooled since 1983 is fair game.

 

Indeed the only things not retooled since the days of 3 TV channels, all which shutdown overnight are the Trix 81 and Class 124.

[57xx]

Just now, adb968008 said:

Seriously… Bachmanns Mainlines manor and 43xx are 40 years old.

If your going that far back, then just about everything tooled since 1983 is fair game.

 

Indeed the only things not retooled since the days of 3 TV channels, all which shutdown overnight are the Trix 81 and Class 124.

 

 

Who gives a how old they were, they were still put out by Bachmann?

[adb968008]

10 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

 

Who gives a how old they were, they were still put out by Bachmann?

i feel the life slipping from my veins.

 

if your using those weak seedlings then add the 02, Beattie and J94 to your steam list.

 

i’m not even sure what this page is about any more.

 

Bring on the Scotrail 158’s.

Edited November 5, 2022 by adb968008

[Steadfast]

On 03/11/2022 at 17:31, hmrspaul said:

Sea Urchins. The finish is familiar - DB Schenker in 2015 460006  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/spaconvertdept/e536be439  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/spaconvertdept/e536be9c5 

 

460915 EWS in 1998 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/spaconvertdept/e20813f39 

 

460887 looks very similar to 460877 in 2018 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/spaconvertdept/eadb8fcd8 

 

I'm cannot remember Bachmann having asked for any of these photos, so may be from others. 

 

Paul

Paul,

 

From memory when EFE launched, Bachmann are just the distributor.

 

Production is undertaken by the supplier, so I would imagine they'd do the research rather than Bachmann.

 

The deco on some of the EFE I've seen first hand hasn't been quite to Bachmann's standard I'd say, for example the Imerys JIA has some incorrect typefaces, which to me backs up that they're not producing themselves.

 

Jo

[Paul.Uni]

According to Rails of Sheffield, the Western Pullman has arrived.

[Jim76]

4 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

According to Rails of Sheffield, the Western Pullman has arrived.

Is this the same model (running number) as the one produced previously?