Rapido OO Gauge LMS Dia1666 5-plank open

[57xx]

On 24/11/2023 at 10:49, County of Yorkshire said:

Hattons current have these at just 17 sheets in their Black Friday sale. I’ve picked up a few, and at that price, I’m not afraid to detail & weather them!

 

Looks like they were popular. Were being the operative word, they're all gone. I didn't want either, but a Toad and SR 8 plank fell in to my basket while I wasn't looking. As FWW said, rude not to at those prices.

[County of Yorkshire]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

Looks like they were popular. Were being the operative word, they're all gone. I didn't want either, but a Toad and SR 8 plank fell in to my basket while I wasn't looking. As FWW said, rude not to at those prices.

As of Friday morning they only had 1x LMS grey (about 10 in stock), 2 x LMS bauxite (each about 4 in stock), and 1 x BR grey (I think about 8 in stock), so yes, they didn’t hang about.
 

I picked up some of the Southern 8 plankers too; all very much needed for my 1947 GWR layout! I wonder how many modellers realise that these types of wagons were pooled and could be seen all over Britain? I suspect not as many as we RMWebbers seem to think. 
 

I’m surprised that these LMS 5 plankers were so heavily discounted relatively soon after initial release (late September iirc). I do hope that these have sold well enough overall to encourage Rapido to continue expanding its steam-era wagon range. Given the recent announcement of the LNWR box van I suspect that they have. 
 

CoY 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 26/11/2023 at 18:44, County of Yorkshire said:

...I wonder how many modellers realise that these types of wagons were pooled and could be seen all over Britain? I suspect not as many as we RMWebbers seem to think...

I suspect that even amongst those that know, half choose to ignore fact, and have neat and tidy 'this company only' uniformity. There's also relatively little acknowlegement of the LMS and LNER pooling their wagon design effort as times became hard in the late twenties. Possibly this is 'unromantic', but it is clear that all the respective management's realised the benefit of increasing the uniformity of the common user wagon stock; such that convergence in design of the most common company wagon is neatly served by the old Airfix GMR 17'6" five plank open body, which looks near enough what all four were having built by the late 30's.

 

Likewise there is rarely evidence of the past existence of through carriages; sometimes as complete trains with the companies responsible each supplying a set, which ran in opposite direction with each other, up and down; and also 'specials' various, which might see Pullman cars in addition to off system company carriage stock  'anywhere'.

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I suspect that even amongst those that know, half choose to ignore fact, and have neat and tidy 'this company only' uniformity.

 

Yes, I recall seeing a couple of Southern 1930s BLTs at an exhibition earlier this year. Both had Southern wagons only. I tut-tutted to myself at the first and was in mid-tut at the second when I realised it was set on the Isle of Wight!

[The Johnster]

On 26/11/2023 at 15:18, 57xx said:

 

Looks like they were popular. Were being the operative word, they're all gone. I didn't want either, but a Toad and SR 8 plank fell in to my basket while I wasn't looking. As FWW said, rude not to at those prices.

 

I missed it as well; it turned out to be a disaster for Mr.Wallet.  I decided to check out Rails' webby to see what they were offering, and a Rapido 16" Hunslet snuck it's way in to my basket, though I can't in all honesty claim I wasn't looking...  Paid £4 more for my 8-plank but of course I made that up in postage and the discounted Hunslet, so I'm better off, aren't I?  'Course I am!

 

Well, praps not, praps I'm just another sucker who thinks his problems can be solved by bright shiny new thing make it all go away, but I've got a Southern 8-planker and a Hunslet I didn't have before, so it's not all bad...

[Aire Head]

On 02/12/2023 at 11:44, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

such that convergence in design of the most common company wagon is neatly served by the old Airfix GMR 17'6" five plank open body, which looks near enough what all four were having built by the late 30's.

 

The Airfix wagon in question represents an LMS D1892 and a family of very similar diagrams (only around 20,000 built) During the Second World War D2094s which are externally identical were built at Ashford for the SR (can't remember the diagram) and LNER (Dia184).

Edited December 3, 2023 by Aire Head

[Oldddudders]

12 hours ago, Aire Head said:

During the Second World War D2094s which are externally identical were built at Ashford for the SR (can't remember the diagram) 

Would it be 1375?

[Wickham Green too]

12 hours ago, Aire Head said:

... D2094s which are externally identical were built at Ashford for the SR (can't remember the diagram) and LNER (Dia184).

No, none were built for the Southern  -  and apart from one batch for the LMS ( 465 ) and one for the LNER ( 375 ), Ashford had built their rather similar* dia.1375 for themselves, the LNER and the Ministry of Supply : some of the latter ending up in BR days as dia.2151 in the LMS series ....................... confusing, innit !

 

* narrower corner plates with one bolt per plank

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Wickham Green too

[Aire Head]

12 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

No, none were built for the Southern  -  and apart from one batch for the LMS ( 465 ) and one for the LNER ( 375 ), Ashford were busy building their rather similar* dia.1375 for themselves, the LNER and the Ministry of Supply : some of the latter ending up in BR days as dia.2151 in the LMS series ....................... confusing, innit !

 

* narrower corner plates with one bolt per plank

 

 

Thank you that might explain why I couldn't find the SR diagram! Indeed the D1375 bears a lot more similarity to the GWR and LNER wagons with the narrower corner plates and placement of bolts.

[Wickham Green too]

..... then there's the shape of the drop door bumper(s) to add to the not-quite-sameness between types !

[JShow]

Hattons have a fresh batch discounted at 24.95-- not as steep as the previous discount. But I've succumbed to FOMO and have ordered one.

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, JShow said:

Hattons have a fresh batch discounted at 24.95-- not as steep as the previous discount. But I've succumbed to FOMO and have ordered one.

 

Well, at least these wagons are getting out there and spreading the word.

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well, at least these wagons are getting out there and spreading the word.

Indeed, three have been imported to France, although they are heavily outnumbered by Rapido's Southern offerings. 

[Compound2632]

Just now, Oldddudders said:

Indeed, three have been imported to France, although they are heavily outnumbered by Rapido's Southern offerings. 

 

Ah then, you need at least another three...

 

(Unless you're modelling the Isle of Wight!)

[Compound2632]

By 1930, LMS D1666 wagons outnumbered the entire Southern wagon fleet by about 3 to 2.

[Oldddudders]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

By 1930, LMS D1666 wagons outnumbered the entire Southern wagon fleet by about 3 to 2.

No doubt, but the penetration of the Southern's route through Devon, which is where my model is set, into North Cornwall, by LMS wagons, would be limited as it wasn't an area of much industry or high population, obviously. Freights were not numerous. Actually, trains weren't that numerous!

[Wickham Green too]

... so you've probably got too many wagons overall ........................................................ banish the thought ! 😊

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Wickham Green too said:

... so you've probably got too many wagons overall ........................................................ banish the thought ! 😊

...which means I can ring the changes, operating session to operating session. Unlike passenger formations, which on Southern were strictly laid down, even if I need to cut my coat according to my cloth, like most modellers. After all, I only have one Dia 2406 to form the Torrington service. But at least it was painted by Larry Goddard. 

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... so you've probably got too many wagons overall ...

 

No, not a possible state of affairs.

 

13 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

No doubt, but the penetration of the Southern's route through Devon, which is where my model is set, into North Cornwall, by LMS wagons, would be limited as it wasn't an area of much industry or high population, obviously. Freights were not numerous. Actually, trains weren't that numerous!

 

Even so, with the pooling of ordinary opens and vans, the proportion of Southern wagons in Southern goods trains anywhere other than the Isle of Wight would be rather low. I live in hope of seeing at exhibition a 1930s SR or GWR BLT on which the only items of home-company goods rolling stock are the brake vans.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Compound2632

[Aire Head]

15 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

No doubt, but the penetration of the Southern's route through Devon, which is where my model is set, into North Cornwall, by LMS wagons, would be limited as it wasn't an area of much industry or high population, obviously. Freights were not numerous. Actually, trains weren't that numerous!

 

Common user very quickly overrides that idea I'm afraid. An LMS common user wagon on the SR could be used by the SR as if it was the SRs own wagon. 

[Compound2632]

The trouble is, with all these Southern modellers out there, talking up sales of Rapido's LMS D1666 wagon can only be at the expense of Rapido's various SR wagons, so we're not realling doing them any favours, nor the retailers neither, if they're discounting the LMS wagons but still have the SR wagons at full price. What's really needed is some vigorous supply-side economics, cutting off the supply of SR wagons at source by encouraging Rapido to produce only LMS and LNER wagons... There are encouraging signs!

 

[Here SR, LMS, LNER wagons is to be read as including SR, LMS, LNER constituent wagons.]

Edited December 6, 2023 by Compound2632

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

By 1930, LMS D1666 wagons outnumbered the entire Southern wagon fleet by about 3 to 2.

Perhaps the retailers took your statistic and ordered lots more LMS opens than SR ones. 

[Oldddudders]

And lo, in the spirit of equal opportunities, an email from Hattons tells me that the SR 8-plank wagons are now the same reduced price as the LMS items. 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

... with all these Southern modellers out there, ...What's really needed is some vigorous supply-side economics, cutting off the supply of SR wagons at source by encouraging Rapido to produce only LMS and LNER wagons... ...

Well, here's one Southern modeller who resisted buying any SR eight-plankers - sorry Rapido - and has finally got round to weathering a pair of their D1666s today.

 

( Must admit I have kit built and unmade kits of both already. )

[gwrrob]

35 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

And lo, in the spirit of equal opportunities, an email from Hattons tells me that the SR 8-plank wagons are now the same reduced price as the LMS items. 

 

You're a bad influence Mr D.😉