Rapido OO Gauge LMS Dia1666 5-plank open

[Flying Pig]

18 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Cardiff East Dock 1957

 

Note BR axlebox and a capping strip retained by clips with bolts through the top plank.  

[rapidoTom]

On 23/09/2023 at 10:33, Wickham Green too said:

Yep - one of my bauxite Rapido's came with spoke and t'other one with three-hole wheels ...... I've not checked sources but I've no doubt they've got that right. 😊

 

All of the versions of this model were sourced from photos - so slight differences in lettering and position, and things like wheel types come from prototypical evidence. I can't remember if the disc wheels were common practice (it's been a while since I looked at the research for this project), but it was common enough for us to decide it was worth tooling!

[Michael Hodgson]

On 19/09/2023 at 13:11, Compound2632 said:

One unprototypical point: turn a real wagon upside-down and all the floor planks would fall out!

 

You tried ?  🤫

[Compound2632]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You tried ?  🤫

 

No! But others have:

 

 

This photo of a heap of my favourite D299 / D351 wagons perhaps suggests they were nailed down. So I recant.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Compound2632

[Wickham Green too]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

... perhaps suggests they were nailed down. ...

I suspect there would have been lots of garden fences made of 7'' x 1½’’ planking around the country if they hadn't been !🙄

[Compound2632]

39 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I suspect there would have been lots of garden fences made of 7'' x 1½’’ planking around the country if they hadn't been !🙄

 

7" x 2½" - stout fencing, when available.

[Wickham Green too]

11 hours ago, rapidoTom said:

... I can't remember if the disc wheels were common practice ... but it was common enough ...

I doubt whether (m)any D1666 were actually built with disc wheels - but they were an RCH standard component so wheelsets would have been swapped whenever worn below limits and by the time of bauxite livery introduction there were lots of disc sets in the pool.

[Flying Pig]

How were the floorboards on a D1892 wagon retained? The ends show under the side sheeting with no curb rail to keep most of them from working their way out sideways.  Surely fixing to a steel underframe wasn't an option?

[MartinTrucks]

4 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

How were the floorboards on a D1892 wagon retained? The ends show under the side sheeting with no curb rail to keep most of them from working their way out sideways.  Surely fixing to a steel underframe wasn't an option?

Not sure why you consider bolting to a steel underframe not to be an option?

 

As built, the D1892 vehicles had most of the boards bolted through the solebars. Those in the door area were possibly bolted through the curb rail.  In BR days, some of the floorboards were retained by bolting steel strips to the bottom sideboards to retain the ends of the floor boards. Those floorboards in the door area still had to be bolted down.

 

I have attached a photo of a BRCW-built. originally vacuum fitted D1892 which is ex-Port of Bristol Authority but illustrates the BR practice of using steel sheets to retain the floorboards. Sadly, this wagon was deemed beyond economic repair and has been broken up.

Regards,

Martin

Edited September 26, 2023 by MartinTrucks

[Flying Pig]

4 hours ago, MartinTrucks said:

Not sure why you consider bolting to a steel underframe not to be an option?

 

 

It seemed like a lot of interference with the underframe members compared to banging a few nails in, possibly introducing numerous points of possible weakness and corrosion.

[Wickham Green too]

10 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

How were the floorboards on a D1892 wagon retained? ... Surely fixing to a steel underframe wasn't an option?

Diagram 2110 wagons - as shown in 'Official Drawings of LMS Wagons No.2' ( Wild Swan, 1997 ) clearly shows bolts into the solebars.

[Flying Pig]

Further to this tangent, nailed floorboards aside, the body of a merchandise wagon was held to a wooden underframe by the side knees and end posts, no other provision having to be made in the construction of the underframe.  Having to provide boltholes in the solebars seems like a retrograde step in terms of complexity of manufacture and in that light the later approach of retaining the floor with plates bolted through the side sheeting makes more sense, though an extra inch or two on the corner plates to retain the endmost floorboards would seem to be called for as well.

[Wickham Green too]

5 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

...retaining the floor with plates bolted through the side sheeting makes more sense, ...

First appeared on wagons attributed to Mr.Bulleid.

[Bucoops]

3x LMS Grey have arrived from Kernow. I have no interest in LMS but recognise these are vital for a 1930s anywhere layout. Very nice they are too for a standard open wagon.

[gwrrob]

4 hours ago, Bucoops said:

3x LMS Grey have arrived from Kernow. I have no interest in LMS but recognise these are vital for a 1930s anywhere layout. Very nice they are too for a standard open wagon.

 

I find them rather like my favourite chocolate biscuit, rather moreish. I've bought some but I want some more.🤫

[Bucoops]

8 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

I find them rather like my favourite chocolate biscuit, rather moreish. I've bought some but I want some more.🤫

 

Well anything is better than GWR so not surprised there 😇😜

 

And now to....

 

[Captain Kernow]

13 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

I find them rather like my favourite chocolate biscuit, rather moreish. I've bought some but I want some more.🤫

I've got my three, so I'm definitely in the market for some chocolate biscuits now, please!

 

[Oldddudders]

Lots of discussion about the prototype here - but am I the only one fitting Kadees, and puzzled to be finding that 18s are too short? They fit fine on other recent Rapido wagons, the SR opens and vans, for example, and the GW 4-plank open, but are too short on this. 19s might work - I don't haver any to hand - otherwise it's 20s. An odd thing to have changed. 

[gwrrob]

I can try a pair for you tomorrow @Oldddudders

[57xx]

50 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Lots of discussion about the prototype here - but am I the only one fitting Kadees, and puzzled to be finding that 18s are too short? They fit fine on other recent Rapido wagons, the SR opens and vans, for example, and the GW 4-plank open, but are too short on this. 19s might work - I don't haver any to hand - otherwise it's 20s. An odd thing to have changed. 

 

Have the pockets been moved back to get a better coupling distance? I seem to recall the other wagons got a bit of stick for the large gap between them with the way the couplings were located.

[Dominion]

Here is a kadee 19 installed. A bit longer than I would want but agree with you the 18 was too short.

[45655]

11 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Lots of discussion about the prototype here - but am I the only one fitting Kadees, and puzzled to be finding that 18s are too short? They fit fine on other recent Rapido wagons, the SR opens and vans, for example, and the GW 4-plank open, but are too short on this. 19s might work - I don't haver any to hand - otherwise it's 20s. An odd thing to have changed. 

I have found that the Kernow LSWR road vans and the Rapido SR 8 plank Merchandise wagons (not the earlier SECR wagons), as well as the LMS D1666 opens, require Kadee no. 19s rather than my usual no. 18s.  So there does seem to be a trend emerging here.

 

The recent EFE LSWR vans (an excellent model, up there with the exquisite Rapido Iron Minks) go one step further as these require no. 20s and height adjustment, because they use stepped tension locks.  Fortunately I have a supply of 3D printed adapter pockets intended for earlier Bachmann wagons using stepped couplings, although these need to be cut down as the couplings supplied with the LSWR vans have a shallower step.

 

Keith

Alton.

[Oldddudders]

Thanks for reassuring me that I am not entirely senile on the Kadee lengths! I will order in some 19s. FB Systems are my best hope as a French supplier. I too have some EFE LSWR vans - it would be rude not to welcome such products! - and will consider what to do with those. If all else fails some butchery to fit Kadee 5s may be called for. 

 

For a while now I have been replacing Kadee 18s on passenger rolling stock - within sets - with Porterhouse magnetic couplings, which I like a lot. It seemed such a good idea with these lovely Rapido wagons coming up! In the greater scheme of things it is utterly trivial, of course. At 75 next month I am trying to inhibit my inner-Victor Meldrew!

[57xx]

Despite having enough Cambrian D1666s, one of these accidentally fell into an order I made. Andy was lamenting the "poor" sales vs the other wagons, so in a show of support and also just out of curiosity to see how good it is, I got one. It is very nice. Very very nice in fact. The underframe is light years ahead of the kits. There's a couple of interior details missing (already discussed and a limit of the RTR process versus moulding kit sides/ends) but that just gives me something to do to lift them that last step up. With a load in you'll probably not even notice them anyhow. It's also highlighted a painting error on my kits, I forgot to paint the drawhook plate black on the one kit I pulled out for comparion.

[Oldddudders]

Well stap me vitals! A generous contributor to this thread has offered me some Kadee 19s gratuit! 

 

Thanks Rob!