Hornby Turbomotive

[zr2498]

On 30/08/2023 at 09:48, Free At Last said:

I have just received an email from Hattons...

The non sound is £239.84

I replied with a cancellation.

I'm also thinking of cancelling. I have asked my retailer and Hornby how the sound files will be done. Is there a sound demo of the Hornby offering out there?

 

@Arthur had posted this in 2017

 

here's a preserved Swedish steam turbine locomotive, filmed here;

 

The turbine casing ahead of the smoke box suggests an arrangement not unlike the LMS turbomotive.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I'm also thinking of cancelling. I have asked my retailer and Hornby how the sound files will be done. Is there a sound demo of the Hornby offering out there?

 

@Arthur had posted this in 2017

 

here's a preserved Swedish steam turbine locomotive, filmed here;

 

The turbine casing ahead of the smoke box suggests an arrangement not unlike the LMS turbomotive.

Ironically I think Hornby are on safer ground with TXS sound for this as there is no exhaust beat to sync with the motion (which of course Hornby can’t do). 

[RAF96]

16 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Ironically I think Hornby are on safer ground with TXS sound for this as there is no exhaust beat to sync with the motion (which of course Hornby can’t do). 

Folk have adjusted the complex speed curve to better synch the chuffs, which works well and other folk have reported the P2 has a reluctor dusk fitted to the 2nd driver set for the future purposes of exactly synchronising chuff sound and smoke effect from the atomising steam unit (ASU).

 

I think the turbine loco steam rush in the video is akin to the difference between a piston engined and jet engined aircraft.

Note that the Turbomotive has two turbines, a big one for forward and a smaller one for limited speed and haulage capacity in reverse. The design concept being the loco would always haul forwards but needed reverse capability for local manoeuvring. Normal reversing techniques of course are not possible on a turbine drive.

 

[Helmdon]

On 08/09/2023 at 11:45, RAF96 said:

Folk have adjusted the complex speed curve to better synch the chuffs, which works well and other folk have reported the P2 has a reluctor dusk fitted to the 2nd driver set for the future purposes of exactly synchronising chuff sound and smoke effect from the atomising steam unit (ASU).

 

I think the turbine loco steam rush in the video is akin to the difference between a piston engined and jet engined aircraft.

Note that the Turbomotive has two turbines, a big one for forward and a smaller one for limited speed and haulage capacity in reverse. The design concept being the loco would always haul forwards but needed reverse capability for local manoeuvring. Normal reversing techniques of course are not possible on a turbine drive.

 

Normal techniques aren’t, but the Former naval officer in me is now going down all sorts of by-ways in my head about how you could (given limitless budget and technology/ideas that didn’t really have currency at the time) apply the principle of controllable pitch propellers somehow….

[Flying Pig]

On 07/09/2023 at 16:15, zr2498 said:

The turbine casing ahead of the smoke box suggests an arrangement not unlike the LMS turbomotive.

 

The Turbomotive was based on these machines.

 

1 hour ago, Helmdon said:

Normal techniques aren’t, but the Former naval officer in me is now going down all sorts of by-ways in my head about how you could (given limitless budget and technology/ideas that didn’t really have currency at the time) apply the principle of controllable pitch propellers somehow….

 

Looking for info on steam turbine efficiency at part load I found this (PDF).  Looks like the Patent Office may not be hearing from you :)

 

Variable geometry gas turbines for improving the part-load performance of marine combined cycles

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Flying Pig
url not working

[adb968008]

Another video here, including a ride on the footplate and some close ups.

 

 

 

however, ignoring the typical air pump used across europe for braking, this loco just sounds like an ordinary steam loco mildly blowing off to me. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by adb968008

[zr2498]

I asked Hornby if there was a demo of their soon to be delivered Turbo'.

This was the reply:

 

Thank you for your email, we do not currently have a sound demo available for the Turbomotive. We are very pleased with the Turbomotive profile and what we have been able to achieve with is, asking development, they have asked me not to pass on specifics until we are able to market the model properly as and when it arrives. I am sorry I cannot be more helpful than this at the moment. 

 

Incredible! Basically if you have a pre-order, then pay for it now and wait and see what you get. At the price being asked .... no chance.

I will be cancelling my pre-order and wait to see what turns up.

I see Wheeltappers have the Turbomotive under development.

 

 

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

I asked Hornby if there was a demo of their soon to be delivered Turbo'.

This was the reply:

 

Thank you for your email, we do not currently have a sound demo available for the Turbomotive. We are very pleased with the Turbomotive profile and what we have been able to achieve with is, asking development, they have asked me not to pass on specifics until we are able to market the model properly as and when it arrives. I am sorry I cannot be more helpful than this at the moment. 

 

Incredible! Basically if you have a pre-order, then pay for it now and wait and see what you get. At the price being asked .... no chance.

I will be cancelling my pre-order and wait to see what turns up.

I see Wheeltappers have the Turbomotive under development.

 

 

 

The Turbomotive sound scheme is not completed yet, so how could they in all seriousness release a sound demo - there would be inevitable complaints that it was not complete etc etc etc. It is close though - patience is a virtue so they say

Edited September 13, 2023 by RedgateModels

[Pete the Elaner]

5 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Incredible! Basically if you have a pre-order, then pay for it now and wait and see what you get. At the price being asked .... no chance.

I will be cancelling my pre-order and wait to see what turns up.

I see Wheeltappers have the Turbomotive under development.

 

 

Hattons list this as £43 more than the standard version. Hornby's sound recordings have been pretty good, so I would not be discouraged by not having heard it yet.

It is the poor features of Hornby's decoders which would put me off.

 

6202's sound was rather unique & other than the running Swedish turbine loco, I doubt anyone would know anything further than how it sounded other than from a written description.

Good news about the Wheeltappers project for it though. At least that will be on a decoder with plenty of features which work properly.

 

[MikeParkin65]

18 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Hattons list this as £43 more than the standard version. Hornby's sound recordings have been pretty good, so I would not be discouraged by not having heard it yet.

It is the poor features of Hornby's decoders which would put me off.

 

6202's sound was rather unique & other than the running Swedish turbine loco, I doubt anyone would know anything further than how it sounded other than from a written description.

Good news about the Wheeltappers project for it though. At least that will be on a decoder with plenty of features which work properly.

 

New TXS decoders are good (as in better than TTS ) in my admittedly limited experience so far. Better motor control and better sound quality. The price for a TXS decoder alone is circa £70 so £43 is good value and it wouldnt put me off the Turbomotive.  Not sure how much functionality is genuinely needed for a steam loco, sound, lights, firebox glow, smoke - think the Hornby chips can control all of this. 

 

Can't be many people still with us who actually heard 6202 in action, even smaller number who are current active modellers I would guess

Edited September 14, 2023 by MikeParkin65
Typo

[zr2498]

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

The Turbomotive sound scheme is not completed yet, so how could they in all seriousness release a sound demo - there would be inevitable complaints that it was not complete etc etc etc. It is close though - patience is a virtue so they say

My apologies to all. I have just done a little more digging, and delivery is not expected until late Autumn, which probably means no sooner than November. I made the mistake of thinking it was due shortly as the retailer asked for payment. My assumption was incorrect.

I have not cancelled as yet, so will hang on to see if the sound project appears (sounds). And then either pay for it, or change to DCC ready (and wait for ANO).

 

[RedgateModels]

15 hours ago, zr2498 said:

or change to DCC ready (and wait for ANO).

 

 

A good approach if you want to hear the sounds before committing - it will be easy to get a TXS decoder later and load the sounds yourself. If you don't like them, use the decoder in another loco and load a different profile via the app 😉

[The Stationmaster]

Saw and handled one on Friday down in Kernow land.  Smashing great beastie with a diecasr body - weighs a lot (and then some).  Very nice finish as well.

 

Not for me but if you're wavering and it runs as well as it looks then it's a really good 'un.

[Adi]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Saw and handled one on Friday down in Kernow land.  Smashing great beastie with a diecasr body - weighs a lot (and then some).  Very nice finish as well.

 

Not for me but if you're wavering and it runs as well as it looks then it's a really good 'un.

Are they in

[Graham_Muz]

2 minutes ago, Adi said:

Are they in

No not yet, it was displayed by Hornby at last Fridays open event at the KMRC Camborne branch. 

[MikeParkin65]

Presumably these are photos of the latest production version - appeared on Facebook today 

[adb968008]

Quote

Great news! Your LMS, Princess Royal Class 'The Turbomotive', 4-6-2, 6202 - Era 3 pre-order has arrived at our warehouse and will shortly be prepared for dispatch.

Order number: H00xxxxx
Product: R30134 – LMS, Princess Royal Class 'The Turbomotive', 4-6-2, 6202 - Era 3

From Hornby..

Edited September 26, 2023 by adb968008

[Johan DC]

A bit strange that only the taillight will be conteolable by DC and DCC, I hope the front lamps aren't permanently on on DCC. 

[Kaput]

39 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

A bit strange that only the taillight will be conteolable by DC and DCC, I hope the front lamps aren't permanently on on DCC. 

 

Baby steps, even one light being controllable on DCC is progress for Hornby steam locos....

[Bulleidboy100]

You wait until you have heard the sound!!

[adb968008]

16 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

You wait until you have heard the sound!!

I am waiting to be impressed, but this is Hornby… i’m expecting amusement.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by adb968008

[smr248]

But how did they manage to record the sound?

[smr248]

Perhaps this really is a kettle - a big one for forward and a smaller, higher pitched one for reverse.  Who could say that it's wrong...

[BachelorBoy]

12 minutes ago, smr248 said:

But how did they manage to record the sound?

 

They created it artificially (probably using some samples of real steam locos and real steam turbines used outside of railways)

 

Accuracy doesn't matter as no-one really knows what it sounded like.

 

The key thing is to create a sound that fits how people imagine it sounded.

 

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, smr248 said:

But how did they manage to record the sound?

 

Plenty of film and sound footage from the time.

 

Don't forget it wasn't a short-lived engine, it lasted from 1935 until rebuilding in 1952. That's longer than many diesel classes!

 

 

Jason