Hornby Turbomotive

[cctransuk]

On 13/10/2023 at 10:29, rogerzilla said:

Reverse curves are prone to cause derailments or sticking unless the vehicles can straighten out before taking the opposing curve.  I don't know the physics behind it.

 

(Edit: on the 1:1 railway, buffer locking is an issue with close reverse curves and although that is rarely going to happen with tension-lock OO couplers, there are limits with the smaller types now used).

 

Crossovers are "accidental" reverse curves which is why some vehicles derail easily over them, unless you use express points to give a gentle transition.

 

Reverse curves are no problem without intermediate straights - unless ludicrously tight radii are used.

 

To expect large model locos to negotiate tramway radii on totally unsecured track is unreasonable; to use such conditions in order to deliver a verdict on a model is totally meaningless.

 

This is the reason that more mature modellers tend to be dismissive of Sam and his 'reviews'.

 

CJI.

[daltonparva]

Current cheapest prices on eBay for the LMS version are £220 DCC ready, £265 sound fitted.

[Fredo]

Any thoughts on doing a model of 46202 in the short period between it being rebuilt from being the turbomotive to a standard loco and its withdrawal?

[atom3624]

I routinely display 'a few favourites' alongside where I sit in the living room, and with 6202 received, it's a bit of a Stanier moment.

I've a renamed/renumbered blinkerless LMS Coronation to 6233 facing 6202, with a slightly older SD 6201 Lizzie.

The boiler on 6202 looks closer to 6233 in diameter, larger than 6201.

Getting the callipers on them, just in front of the handrails, smokebox door end, 6233 measured 24.8mm, 6202 24.7 and 6201 24.3mm - all trying to avoid the rivets.

One reference book I have states the Coronations over casing, smokebox door end were 6'2" which ties in perfectly to 6233, and 6202 as well, which I thought should be the same as Lizzie, which was a slightly smaller diameter.

Thoughts?

Is the boiler on 6202 too large?

Al.

[VIA185]

On 13/10/2023 at 10:15, Legend said:

 As a Sam Railways fan , the curves are second radius . As to voltage drop he has other locos go over there without any issues .  It seems a reasonable test to me .  I look at Sams trains and lots of other and make up my own mind .  The main benefit of these reviews is you actually get to see the train run . He also buys the models himself so are not "given" any to review  which makes him much more independent in my view . 

What makes you thin k he's the only one who buys his review models? 

[Legend]

40 minutes ago, VIA185 said:

What makes you thin k he's the only one who buys his review models? 

 I didn’t say he is the only one , in fact several YouTubers must be in that position . I do know  one that gets locomotives from manufacturer /retailers on loan though . 
 

I think, as well, he is not dependent on any advertising income  from companies , so can tell it as it is .  

Edited October 15, 2023 by Legend

[cctransuk]

13 minutes ago, Legend said:

 I didn’t say he is the only one , in fact several YouTubers must be in that position . I do know  one that gets locomotives from manufacturer on loan though . 
 

I think, as well, he is not dependent on any advertising income  from companies , so can tell it as it is .  

 

The problem, as I see it, is that the 'testing' conditions that he operates under are not comparable with those that most modellers use.

 

To that extent, his 'verdicts' are largely irrelevant.

 

CJI.

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

The problem, as I see it, is that the 'testing' conditions that he operates under are not comparable with those that most modellers use.

 

To that extent, his 'verdicts' are largely irrelevant.

 

CJI.

you haven’t seen my trackwork ! 

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Fredo said:

Any thoughts on doing a model of 46202 in the short period between it being rebuilt from being the turbomotive to a standard loco and its withdrawal?

Would it be easier to start with a standard princess ?

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Would it be easier to start with a standard princess ?

 

 

Plus some bits of a 'Princess Coronation' for the front end.  The rebuilt 46202 was apparently considered as a unique type in a class of only one.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It's probably simplest as a '50/50 blend' if the project is a RTR OO 'bash': single chimney Princess body with additional Duchess style steam pipe casings by the smokebox, and the front driving wheel splasher relocated,

Duchess chassis underneath (the slightly shorter coupled w/b is why the splasher has to be relocated).

 

Possibly some care required to obtain the correct pattern 4,000 gallon tender design too.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It's probably simplest as a '50/50 blend' if the project is a RTR OO 'bash': single chimney Princess body with additional Duchess style steam pipe casings by the smokebox, and the front driving wheel splasher relocated,

Duchess chassis underneath (the slightly shorter coupled w/b is why the splasher has to be relocated).

 

Possibly some care required to obtain the correct pattern 4,000 gallon tender design too.

 

The steam pipe casings were, I think, far more angular than those of the Duchesses.

 

CJI.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

The steam pipe casings were, I think, far more angular than those of the Duchesses.

Quite so, but 'Basher's Latitude' applies! There's also a  step in the footplate somewhere just ahead of the cab, nameplate on the front splasher, and probably much else in the way of variations from the contributions from both classes...

[adb968008]

The running frame was a different shape too, as was the height of the visible frame plates in front of the smokebox.

 

There was an article on here, for someone who modelled 46202 a few years back..

 

 

[ColinB]

On 15/10/2023 at 19:01, VIA185 said:

What makes you thin k he's the only one who buys his review models? 

Well I know quite a few that don't and one of those persons sent me a snotty response when I suggested that they got freebys, even though quite often openly admitting they got given it by Hornby. Sam makes mistakes but don't we all, generally he is right most of the time but it depends what you are interested in. If you are more obsessed whether it is a pony truck or a bogie, then sure you are not going to like his reviews, similarly if you are part of the Hornby testing mafia you are not going to like them. Now if you are like me trying to figure out why a Hornby loco is generally £50 more than the competition then his review is quite useful. Fortunately for Hornby he hasn't done a back to back review of the Hornby latest class 87 with the Accurascale class 92, that would be embarrassing.

[RAF96]

19 hours ago, ColinB said:

similarly if you are part of the Hornby testing mafia you are not going to like them

I and others on here are and you aren’t, which sounds like sour grapes Colin.

[ColinB]

13 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

I and others on here are and you aren’t, which sounds like sour grapes Colin.

Actually no, if I wanted work I could easily get some. I am an expert on OBD, CAN, C# and embedded software systems which if you look on the web are in high demand with suitable remuneration. So no I don't want to work for Hornby, it just annoys me when people have a dig at Sam. I am sure he can fight his own battles, but a lot of the criticism is unjustified. The thing I do find really amusing is everyone complains about his testing layout and two of the locos he tested worked perfectly with no derailments, both locos on my Peco streamline track derailed immediately they came to a double slip and it appears from the web lots of other peoples who also weren't running on carpet.

[The Stationmaster]

So there appears to be a consensus that Sam is like Marmite.  Could we leave things at that and return to the Turbomotive - PLEASE

(Sorry for shouting but I'm sure many will understand why I did.)

[atom3624]

I quite like Marmite ...  perhaps it's the beer it was a by-product of ....  

 

QUESTION:  Apologies if already clarified, but what is the reason for the 'opening flap' at the front?

 

Al.

[Ollie K]

Between the front frame plates behind the mesh, the Turbomotive housed a radiator for cooling the turbine oil. Hinging the flap meant it could be positioned open when the locomotive was running to promote optimal airflow, while closing it when stationary allowed the smokebox door to be opened and provided a platform for the crew to stand on during servicing. 

 

Think of it as the opposite to a car's bonnet: left open when on the road, and closed during maintenance. 

[ColinB]

Well they did get that right on the model, mine definitely hinges although I don't think you would want to do it to often.

[atom3624]

Thanks for the reply OB.

Mine hinges perfectly as well but wouldn't want to open/close too often as CB intimated.

It would have also been nice to have a bit of a hollow under that flap, even piping, not just totally flush.  I know the chassis' just there, but some effort would have helped.

 

Al.

Edited October 18, 2023 by atom3624

[ColinB]

On 17/10/2023 at 17:23, ColinB said:

Actually no, if I wanted work I could easily get some. I am an expert on OBD, CAN, C# and embedded software systems which if you look on the web are in high demand with suitable remuneration. So no I don't want to work for Hornby, it just annoys me when people have a dig at Sam. I am sure he can fight his own battles, but a lot of the criticism is unjustified. The thing I do find really amusing is everyone complains about his testing layout and two of the locos he tested worked perfectly with no derailments, both locos on my Peco streamline track derailed immediately they came to a double slip and it appears from the web lots of other peoples who also weren't running on carpet.

As a final point on Sam, I know it is off subject and you will have to forgive me but it is an important point. Yesterday I was looking to buy an old Railroad loco. The important feature for me especially on Railroad locos is whether they have tender pickups, many Railroad locos don't, especially the old ones. Searched the web for a review and surprisingly Sam did a review on it a few years ago and as always he tells you those exact details which many of the other reviewers don't. Interestingly he was really complimentary about it.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, ColinB said:

As a final point on Sam, I know it is off subject and you will have to forgive me but it is an important point. Yesterday I was looking to buy an old Railroad loco. The important feature for me especially on Railroad locos is whether they have tender pickups, many Railroad locos don't, especially the old ones. Searched the web for a review and surprisingly Sam did a review on it a few years ago and as always he tells you those exact details which many of the other reviewers don't. Interestingly he was really complimentary about it.

Or just look up the relevant Service Sheet for the model ....

[ColinB]

17 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Or just look up the relevant Service Sheet for the model ....

Yes you could if it is listed, they all aren't. They also don't always tell you whether it is 3 or 5 pole motor. I spent a great deal of time looking at service sheets for spare parts, but yes in theory that would be a solution.

Edited October 20, 2023 by ColinB