EFE Rail Newton Chambers car carriers

[adb968008]

26 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

Nice buffers.  Unlike the Heljan model.

This quote, in a pub, could have a whole different meaning.

[Porcy Mane]

Just now, adb968008 said:

This quote, in a pub, could have a whole different meaning.

 

Or a photographic studio.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Laws arent anti business, they are about protecting the consumer, and if it benefits the consumer, say one party making the Chambers motor rail and another making the Deltic to pull them.. then thats something thats actually encouraged and grows the market.

 

Except that both companies now have a monopoly and can increase their prices - which would be seen as bad for the consumer. I suspect that the authorities would encourage competition as that's seen as in the consumer's interests.

 

All this would, of course, have to be tested in court, not something anyone fancies doing.

[gwrrob]

45 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i’d give them odds on favourite for the first ever accurate ready to run milk tanker (GWR diagram my guess).

 

 

Lovely idea , although I’ve recently been badgering Rapido on doing these.

[Ravenser]

26 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It does seem odd that people have a hard time believing EFE can come up with their own stuff.

 

The Newton Chambers isnt their first rodeo either… theyve already done the LSWR coaches, and arguably the Northern Tube is completely new.. I see nothing in that die-cast tooling carried over.

 

I’m finding this brand interesting, and quite unpredictable. (As side of a west country bias).

i’d give them odds on favourite for the first ever accurate ready to run milk tanker (GWR diagram my guess).

 

 

 

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't EFE a marketing brand whereby Bachmann release through their network models developed by others and produced in factories other than Kadar?

 

There is clearly a tie-up with Kernow, and also with Heljan - models from both have re-appeared under the EFE brand. Similarly I think some of the items that originated through the DJM debacle eventually came to market under the EFE brand

 

That doesn't preclude a new model being developed by someone else and released through EFE , rather than by themselves under their own banner. The LSWR 3 car sets apparently shared some tooling with a previous Kernow release and I recall a suggestion that the Kernow name had been found somewhere on the boxes.

 

If these models were developed by Bachmann at Barwell but are under the EFE brand because they were produced outside the Kadar supply chain, that's a new development of the EFE brand I believe? And quite a noteworthy one . (The only alternative is that they were developed by AN Other using EFE as a route to market)

 

Regardless of the ins and outs of origin , if THREE different manufacturers have managed independently to develop and announce models of the same specialist vehicles, of which only 14 were ever built, in a matter of months then the British RTR market is even more saturated than I thought. Someone, somewhere, is going to get their fingers burnt soon

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Josiah said:

... may not have been straight on their sample photographs, I suspect it would have been hand painted originally in real life so perhaps more authentic..

 

Transfers or sign-written - almost certainly the former - I can assure you that markings on coaches and NPCCS were immaculate in my experience.

 

With the advent of sticky-back vinyl lettering, the results could be more akin to 'Blue Peter's' "Here's one I made earlier"!

 

CJI.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Except that both companies now have a monopoly and can increase their prices - which would be seen as bad for the consumer. I suspect that the authorities would encourage competition as that's seen as in the consumer's interests.

 

All this would, of course, have to be tested in court, not something anyone fancies doing.

It depends how far you go, Cadburys have a monopoly on cream eggs.

I cant see anyone caring about newton chambers, when theres a near monopoly and no competition  on energy prices.

 

The 143/144 duplication is a bigger story imo…one waits to see if a 142 follows it onto that chassis, they used to work in Cornwall too.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by adb968008

[Phil Parker]

14 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It depends how far you go, Cadburys have a monopoly on cream eggs.

I cant see anyone caring about newton chambers, when theres a near monopoly and no competition  on energy prices.

 

The 143/144 duplication is a bigger story imo…one waits to see if a 142 follows it onto that chassis, they used to work in Cornwall too.

 

 

 

Collin the Caterpillar. M&S cared enough about that to take Aldi to court. The latter undercutting them on price.

[adb968008]

18 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Collin the Caterpillar. M&S cared enough about that to take Aldi to court. The latter undercutting them on price.

But thats about intellectual property.

 

Gosh these pacers are very similar dont you think ?

 

As a consumer, I found it confusing to remember which chassis belonged to which model.

 

Not only could I swap chassis, internals, even  the parts from one seem to fit the other.

 

 

they are even compatible with each other..

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by adb968008

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

If these models were developed by Bachmann at Barwell but are under the EFE brand because they were produced outside the Kadar supply chain, that's a new development of the EFE brand I believe? And quite a noteworthy one . (The only alternative is that they were developed by AN Other using EFE as a route to market)

 

Which could perhaps be a way for Bachmann Europe to unclog its (unseen) development backlog against the internally imposed production allocation.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

Nice buffers.  Unlike the Heljan model.

 

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

This quote, in a pub, could have a whole different meaning.

 

Well they are Massive Wagons...

[frobisher]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

But thats about intellectual property.

 

Gosh these pacers are very similar dont you think ?

 

And that's all about ownership of tooling and/or source CAD files and/or "loopholes" in contracts

[Porcy Mane]

2 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Wagons

 

... Coaches.       

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Wagons

 

5 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

... Coaches.       

Vans

 

They had an “N” code like other GUVs, BGs, CCTs etc

 

in my spotting book i’d seen most of these, and I recognised them in images several times, yet for some reason ive no direct recollection of a place /time I saw them.

Edited June 18, 2023 by adb968008

[Porcy Mane]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Vans

 

NPCS.

[adb968008]

Just now, Porcy Mane said:

 

NPCS.

I’m still in this card game…

 

I’ll raise you…

 

Transporters

[Porcy Mane]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Transporters

 

 

[Bucoops]

20 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

... Coaches.       

 

17 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Vans

 

They had an “N” code like other GUVs, BGs, CCTs etc

 

in my spotting book i’d seen most of these, and I recognised them in images several times, yet for some reason ive no direct recollection of a place /time I saw them.

 

12 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

NPCS.

 

12 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I’m still in this card game…

 

I’ll raise you…

 

Transporters

 

4 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

 

 

Well you thoroughly ran over my joke :(

 

So have some decent music.

 

 

 

(working on assumption they were filming with permission ya-de ya etc.)

Edited June 18, 2023 by Bucoops

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Transfers or sign-written - almost certainly the former - I can assure you that markings on coaches and NPCCS were immaculate in my experience.

 

With the advent of sticky-back vinyl lettering, the results could be more akin to 'Blue Peter's' "Here's one I made earlier"!

 

CJI.

ive actually got a stack of genuine BR depot stickers for Springs Branch, at least 35+ years old..

 

(They didnt need them as SP didnt have many locos after the 40’s left, and I got the from.. I’m sure you can guess).

[Ravenser]

27 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well you thoroughly ran over my joke :(

 

So have some decent music.

 

 

 

(working on assumption they were filming with permission ya-de ya etc.)

 

What I want to know is whether the Massive Wagons were licenced by Ratio in Devon🤯

[Phil R]

Further to the earlier discussions re these vehicles working with Mk3 sleepers, there is a photograph in Today’s Railways Review of the Year Vol 1 (1987) .

 

It is dated 24/03/1987 and shows 47661 hauling the 2335 Kings Cross -Edinburgh “Night Scotsman”.

 

The formation, as far as I can make out, is :-

 

2 TCV (blue/grey)

GUV (plain blue  ? NX Motorail variant)

10 Mk3 sleepers (SLE/SLEP) 

(9 blue/grey, 1 Intercity)

BG (blue/grey)

 

Hope this is of use to someone.

 

Phil

[Graham_Muz]

17 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

For Bachmann this is less of an issue - as it is an EFE model the tooling and development cost do not lie with them.

 

I notice from another post that Sonic have announced these in N, and it is an obvious question whether they might be the source of this EFE model

 

I didn't realise you were party to commercial arrangments between Bachmann and their supply partners... as you state as implied, but actually unsubstantiated, fact. 

 

Re Sonic, as advised elsewhere they are totally independant of the 00 releases.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Graham_Muz

[Graham_Muz]

15 hours ago, Josiah said:

Rather more on topic, these are great looking vehicles, perhaps slightly crisper than Heljans around the end door hinges - lettering may not have been straight on their sample photographs, I suspect it would have been hand painted originally in real life so perhaps more authentic.. 

 

 

 

As stated above those on display were the first decorated samples and a number of areas for improvement (including the straightness of the lettering)  have been identified (which is the purpose of such samples in the development process).

[Southernman46]

19 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Could we divert all the boring lawyer speak to somewhere else - this thread is about some more great car carrying wagon models.

and back to the wagons / carriers / NPCCS ............................ 🙄

 

Don't forget EFE developed and produced the 1938 tube stock - this ain't their first rodeo and this was them pushing the envelope some 15 years ago too (Gilbow = EFE) .................... http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/efe/model_reviews/bigdms/dms_bus.html

Edited June 19, 2023 by Southernman46

[rembrow]

One thing I've noticed on the early samples, is the prominent underbody ribs, seven, that seem to extend to the edge of the lower car storage area, between the bogies, making them visible from side on. The prototype photos on Paul Bartlett's site, show no visible underside ribs. From the limited photos of the Heljan model, they don't seem to have these supporting ribs visible from the side.