Delta_Who Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, ruggedpeak said: There are several issues... - Having duplicates means the consumer is more likely to get the type of model they actually want e.g. Hornby vs Rapido Lion. Cost or detail appropriate - Duplication forces manufacturers to actually seek out the more obscure... unseen prototypes - If that duplicate is indeed popular, then there is more of a chance the consumer can obtain it in quantity - In this particular example, there's still a chance Heljan couldn't undercut Bachmann in this instance - Would be nice in an ideal world, but realistically... manufacturers are not going to share their menus for the next 5 years. Some manufacturers may have that inherent trust (I believe I can find a quote saying Accurascale held off on Wessex sets because of another manufacturer). I don't consider the topic to be that black and white tbh, and no-one seems to have a sensible solution. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdChap Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 My own point of interest is in being able to purchase a single N C Motorail car. I could not afford a 3 car set from Heljan, nor have the size of layout to run three. So EFE have definitely done the right thing as far as I am concerned. Thank you. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, hmrspaul said: But the advantage of wagons is that duplication is necessary 😇 - the HTVs being a good example with their different body styles, different break rigging, different bearings, suspension, buffers ... There are 4 different scale drawings of rebodied 21T hoppers in An illustrated history of British Railways Hopper Wagons That's exactly why I live in hope of that 👍 and I know I'll end up buying both sorts of the TCV's and my Wife will hurt me ................... 😂 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 They look great - I’ve ordered a few. Ordered a Heljan set set previously. Nothing wrong with a bit of competition. Cheers Darius 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2023 I’m still curious why, as a Bachmann model, it’s under the EFE Rail brand rather than Bachmann Branchline and what it means, if anything, in terms of the quality/price bracket Bachmann is aiming for with each brand going forward. Based on comments on here about the running qualities of some previous EFE models, whilst I have no qualms pre-ordering Bachmann models I’m not sure I would EFE and would want to see reviews first. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 17, 2023 Author Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, brushman47544 said: I’m still curious why, as a Bachmann model, it’s under the EFE Rail brand rather than Bachmann Branchline It's because it's not produced by Kader so it's not actually a Bachmann product. 3 11 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just wondering Andy as it’s not been mentioned, are these the same mouldings as the Heljan model? (runs for the hills!) Joking apart they did look the business in the cabinet at DEMU today, not something I’d go for personally but I should imagine a nice rake of them will look pretty impressive on a big layout 1 1 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby_tl10 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 hours ago, curlypaws said: I think that the difference with Hornby is that (in some cases) they have deliberately set out to duplicate or sabotage a model from another manufacturer - for instance with the Hattons Class 66, the Rapido Titfield Thunderbolt and with Cavalex over their proposed Class 91. The Hornby Class 66 and Hattons Class 66 are not duplicates at all, the specifications and level of detail are too different (the price too). The two models obviously target different customers, therefore shouldn't be considered as duplicates. Same for Hornby vs Bachmann Classes 20, 37, 40, 47, 57 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_stevens Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, big jim said: Just wondering Andy as it’s not been mentioned, are these the same mouldings as the Heljan model? It's been mentioned several times on previous pages that these are NOT the same moulding as the Heljan models. There are material differences. Luke 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_stevens Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 hours ago, AY Mod said: They are different models of the same stock. Andy's confirmation from page 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, luke_stevens said: It's been mentioned several times on previous pages that these are NOT the same moulding as the Heljan models. There are material differences. Luke 24 minutes ago, big jim said: Just wondering Andy as it’s not been mentioned, are these the same mouldings as the Heljan model? (runs for the hills!) Joking apart they did look the business in the cabinet at DEMU today, not something I’d go for personally but I should imagine a nice rake of them will look pretty impressive on a big layout My emphasis - I'm fairly sure Jim knows this 😏 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_stevens Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bucoops said: My emphasis - I'm fairly sure Jim knows this 😏 Then why ask a question that has already been answered several times on page 1? L 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, luke_stevens said: Then why ask a question that has already been answered several times on page 1? L Because it was funny, and he likes to live on the edge? 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 17, 2023 Author Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, luke_stevens said: Then why ask a question that has already been answered several times on page 1? It was a touch of humour. I'm sure Jim could picture my exasperation this morning. Still, it could be worse; it could have been some of the utterly ridiculous rubbish I've seen on Facebook. 2 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2023 To be fair most of the stuff on Facebook is ridiculous rubbish! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 17, 2023 Author Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, John M Upton said: most of the stuff on Facebook is ridiculous rubbish! There's a lot of sensible stuff until Billy Nobrains turns up and then there's little to be said for it. Just find groups Billy doesn't belong to and it's fine. 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, AY Mod said: It was a touch of humour. I'm sure Jim could picture my exasperation this morning. I could picture your anticipated exasperation when you first got the press release from Bachmann knowing full well what froth and wibble would end up in the thread! Edited June 17, 2023 by big jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 17, 2023 Author Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, big jim said: I could picture your anticipated exasperation when you first got the press release from Bachmann knowing full well what froth and wibble would end up in the thread! You know me too well. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 hours ago, James Grundy said: Just a spot of good old fashioned communication. Oh yeah? So which company should have asked its competitors what unannounced products they had up their sleeve? I would be surpised if the second word of the reply to that would be anything other than "off". Which of them would be so naive as to give their trade secrets to the opposition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium curlypaws Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, toby_tl10 said: The Hornby Class 66 and Hattons Class 66 are not duplicates at all, the specifications and level of detail are too different (the price too). The two models obviously target different customers, therefore shouldn't be considered as duplicates. That may well be true - and I certainly agree that the Hattons model was better in every way (wobbly axle boxes aside). However, from the commercial perspective it wasn't how Hattons saw it when they first learned of Hornby rushing out a raft of Class 66 models at low prices just prior to Hattons coming to market (as seen in the James May Hornby TV series). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Halvarras said: *I don't agree that there are still plenty of viable subjects available never produced RTR - the post-steam era is close to saturation (we're down to specialist wagon types now), and although the steam era itself is vast, it's telling that many excellent and only recently-released pre-nationalisation and pre-Grouping wagon models are already circling bargain bins. And I still haven't built that Cambrian kit....... There remain quite a lot of non steam wagons which haven't been made, or are still relying on mouldings from when I was just moving onto solid food, and a few which would benefit from a competitor because they were so common and the exiting hi-fi model has vanished due to demand (yes Bachmann I do mean your FGA-FFA liner flats). There's room for more competition in quite a few wagon types even post 1968. That's without straying into the field of multiple units where the oft parroted wails round here of "more than two car units are unaffordable" is actively being challenged by Irish Railway Models, Revolution and even arch kettle worshippers Hornby with their Flirts and revisiting the 4-VEP. Whilst it might be disheartening for Team Heljan that Bachmann-EFE have announced the car carrier, I can't help thinking that those who need these vans might be prompted to buy some extra from the other manufacturer which they might not have done if one model had been made. I plan to buy some Sonic VIX vans to add to my Rapido ones, although I hadn't intended to get any more Rapido wagons for now. So Rapido haven't lost any sales, but Sonic will gain some and I will have a more flexible stock of wagons, enabling me to introduce some variety. I just don't need ER car carriers! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, AY Mod said: Still, it could be worse; it could have been some of the utterly ridiculous rubbish I've seen on Facebook. I'm waiting for someone to suggest Hornby have one planned as well as a spoiler. I know it's usually me making that comment but I'll refrain from making it this time. Oh bu**er. Ban 'ommer incoming. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Has anyone actually said anything good about them yet …. it looks great… indeed the detail is very good. At £50 they arent bad value, and 3 of them is a £45 saving on the Heljan model. (I know the roof is magnetic on the Heljan one, whilst it lacked any interior, you could feasibly plonk some cars inside). Is the roof removable on the efe one, and is there any ramps inside ? As for popularity, there wasnt many of the,, but there was only 1 X class 89, 71000, 6202, W1, Rocket etc… hasnt stopped popularity. Iirc theres only 2 x Loriet Y’s… as with all duplication, dont complain, take advantage. I only ordered 1 pack each of Heljans, as 6 is too many, but I could find myself shuffling about and have 4 in blue/grey and a combination of both liveries. Edited June 17, 2023 by adb968008 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted June 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2023 I’m kind of hoping they flop and end up in the bargain bins for about £30. I reckon 3 or 4 would look absolutely bangin’ in Intercity Swallow livery with a large logo from a class 47 on the side, at the head of a sleeper train. But I can’t bring myself to repaint a £50 model, let alone a £70 one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Crackers. Jacobs is the famous brand, but every food retailer has their own brand; some more than one. That's capitalistic competition for you... 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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