Heljan LNER 2-8-0+0-8-2T U1 Garratt

[wilks]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:20, 61661 said:

Understand your situation. As someone who joined Heljan after those models were designed/released, I'm also determined to avoid similar issues and we have made great strides to do so in recent years. In that regard we are being helped by the fact that we now use different factories as one of our previous suppliers ceased production. The first running sample of the U1 is expected in January, so we'll see how it performs in the real world and it will not go into production until it does everything we ask of it to the required standard. I have a 1-in-25 gradient on my layout so I'm very much looking forward to seeing it tackle that with a big train. 

What I can promise is that the LNER U1 will be a VERY different animal to its LMS cousin, which was designed to Hattons' specification and price point. Also worth noting that the problems that arose with the first batch of LMS B-Gs were addressed for the second batch, which did not have any issues. 

With regard to loco choices, we listen to what people are asking for and make our own judgements on what is likely to sell enough to justify the investment. Over the last 15 years or so we've done numerous one-offs and obscure prototypes and generally they've been successful. We get numerous requests for prototype and other locos, but I can honestly say that I've never had a single request at a show or online for a Fowler 3MT, Maunsell U or similar 'missing links'. I'll leave it to RMwebbers to discuss why that might be. 

A J6 would be good. Heljan already have GN tender behind the O2.

[dave75]

Can believe they are making this beast, need to start saving.

Heljan class 306/506 EMU next please.

 

 

[prtrainman]

Since nobody wants to produce a U, a different U1 (the Southern one) would be good.

[atom3624]

This is definitely one of those rare beasts which is 'so extreme' it's a definite must have - biggest, most powerful - always a justification somewhere!!

Who doesn't want to see 'how many' they can haul as well?  😄

Even if sat in a siding much of the time, the immense size just dwarfs 'normal' medium-sized locomotives.

Al.

[61661]

On 17/11/2023 at 17:05, No Decorum said:

The O2s aren’t far off; they’ll give us an idea of what to expect, although the only complaint I have about the earlier O2s is the odd finish. A Gresley O1 would be very welcome, Heljan!

The next batch of O2s is about to go into production. Despite the setback of the factory closure we’ve put a lot of work into improving detail parts and performance with the new factory and the deco will be much better (I have to admit giving the original batch a fairly critical mag review some years ago). 
Although it’s true that the real U1 shared parts such as driving wheels and cylinders with the Gresley O2s we are not carrying anything from our O2 over to the Garratt. New design and a factory that has done some excellent stuff for us recently - a very different animal. 
Thanks for the O1 suggestion. Let’s see how the new O2s sell first! 

[61661]

On 17/11/2023 at 17:52, RichardT said:

I model in N, and my long-standing EOI with Hattons for an N LMS BG is obviously ever going to result in anything. Unless Heljan want to go it alone… (hint hint).

We had no involvement in the Hattons LMS Garratt in N. It was as much a surprise to us as everyone else!  No plans to get into N scale, we have more than enough on our plate with OO and O at the moment! 

[melmerby]

On 17/11/2023 at 13:01, Michael Hodgson said:

Silly question, but wouldn't it have been better to run chimney first on a 1:38, to try and help keep the firebox crown covered?

It was tried both ways round and when running chimney first the crew couldn't easily judge the distance to the train, resulting in some heavy contacts.

[JSpencer]

On 17/11/2023 at 13:20, 61661 said:

With regard to loco choices, we listen to what people are asking for and make our own judgements on what is likely to sell enough to justify the investment. Over the last 15 years or so we've done numerous one-offs and obscure prototypes and generally they've been successful. We get numerous requests for prototype and other locos, but I can honestly say that I've never had a single request at a show or online for a Fowler 3MT, Maunsell U or similar 'missing links'. I'll leave it to RMwebbers to discuss why that might be. 

 

I must admit that I do not normally associate Heljan and "run of the mill" steam locos (diesels a different matter) so they would not be my first choice to pester for a Southern U class etc.

After doing so many diesel prototypes, I can see why the requests are mainly singular class steam locos. Look forwards to this beast though.

[Johan DC]

I don't have much experience with Heljan, only have a couple of the very fine NER Railcars they made for RoS. 

It's a steep price, but if you compared with £200 for a G5, very reasonable. 

Is there a EU stockist where I can pre order?

[gr.king]

2 hours ago, 61661 said:

The next batch of O2s is about to go into production. Despite the setback of the factory closure we’ve put a lot of work into improving detail parts and performance with the new factory and the deco will be much better (I have to admit giving the original batch a fairly critical mag review some years ago). 
Although it’s true that the real U1 shared parts such as driving wheels and cylinders with the Gresley O2s we are not carrying anything from our O2 over to the Garratt. New design and a factory that has done some excellent stuff for us recently - a very different animal. 
Thanks for the O1 suggestion. Let’s see how the new O2s sell first! 

The Gresley O1 would have been fairly easy to create from an 02/1 without the need for new tooling for almost everything if only Heljan hadn't used an unconventional, interlocking, difficult-to-separate arrangement of chassis, long slim motor, gearing, weighted block and boiler with the motor driving the second coupled wheelset. A more conventional flat-can motor driving the third set of coupled wheels would have left open the possibility of fairly easily altering the position of the second coupled wheelset. Beyond that, new cylinders, rods, valve gear and a few changes to the front of the body would see the job more or less done.

I did mention the possibility to somebody "on the inside" when the original model was known to be under development...

[RichardT]

On 18/11/2023 at 10:07, coronach said:

On 17/11/2023 at 12:33, RichardT said:

I have a 00 gauge ‘Mk1’ Bachmann V3 2-6-2T that is getting on for 30 years old, which still runs perfectly - split chassis design notwithstanding. When it came out, it was a revelation in terms of quality and detail. I took it to show a work colleague in Hudson House who was suitably impressed. Of course the detail is a little dated now but I wouldn’t replace it

 But late to the party replying to

this @coronach, but I probably didn’t make myself clear in my original comment - mentioning the V3 was in the context of Bachmann never having shown any signs of issuing it in the Farish range for N despite “owning” the prototype for (as you say) 30 years, and despite the fact that it’s a huge and obvious gap in the range of medium sized mixed traffic tank locos - which have been produced in N for the LMS, GWR and BR standards. I was trying to contrast that absence of such a useful everyday loco with the fact that a U1 does get produced (albeit in 4mm).  Anyway, this is OT as that’s about Bachmann not Heljan, and has been pointed out above with commendable lack of flummery, Heljan have no interest at all in the second-most popular UK modelling scale. So I know not to hold my breath for an N Tango, never mind a U1 🥲

 

RT

[No Decorum]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:33, RichardT said:

 

(V3 tank anyone?)

 

RichardT

 

Bachmann released a couple of V3s very recently. It’s the original body on an updated chassis. The latter performs very well and is designed to accept sound. The picture below is of the LNER green version. Despite Bachmann’s publicity and the label on the box claiming it’s a V1, it is a V3 as the bufferbeam confirms. BR versions were released earlier.

 

[jjb1970]

A bold choice by Heljan which will be an imposing model, I think it'll appeal far beyond those modelling the area and periods which would justify one on a prototypical basis. 

 

On Heljan, my only models are D&E and while some are 'curates eggs' in terms of appearance all of them have been powerful, smooth and quiet runners capable of pulling far more than they'll ever need to or which would be prototypical. And they have a track record of doing unusual subjects and one off models. So for me, while I'm aware of the issues with the first batch of Hattons BG models which Heljan made I have to say I've never had any cause to criticise my Heljan models.

 

I won't be buying one as it's too far from my real interests. I made the mistake many years ago of going down the 'ooohh, that's nice, I'll have one' path and one day realized I had a mountain of stuff I wasn't actually interested in, which were 'orphans' in my fleet and which after the initial sugar rush of getting something new wore off I wasn't really that bothered about. I did a huge clean out and while I'm still scatter brained and buy stuff from different countries and eras (GWR, Southern, Japan, China and BR blue) it is all stuff I have a genuine interest and love for. That's absolutely not a criticism of this model, prototype or Heljan, it's a fascinating prototype and a splendid choice by Heljan and ten years ago I'd have bought it anyway.

 

I think this release will make many very happy, well done to Heljan.

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, 61661 said:

The next batch of O2s is about to go into production. Despite the setback of the factory closure we’ve put a lot of work into improving detail parts and performance with the new factory and the deco will be much better (I have to admit giving the original batch a fairly critical mag review some years ago). 
Although it’s true that the real U1 shared parts such as driving wheels and cylinders with the Gresley O2s we are not carrying anything from our O2 over to the Garratt. New design and a factory that has done some excellent stuff for us recently - a very different animal. 
Thanks for the O1 suggestion. Let’s see how the new O2s sell first! 

You know your market better than I do but I think you may be right to be cautious. There isn’t the buzz in the O2 thread that there is in other threads, which is a little worrying. I get the impression that there are some enthusiastic fans rather than a host of enthusiasts. Here’s hoping I’m wrong and  when the O2s arrive, there will be a sudden uptake. After all, it was a magnificent machine.

 

I’m very far from being anti-diesel but diesels seem to get a lot of attention. Thinking of the variety of tooling available for, say, 37s, I do rather long for similar treatment for the O4s. Bachmann has produced a decent O4* and Hornby a Thompson O1, which I like to think of as more of an O4/9. There were, however, eight sub-classes, not to mention the O5s. Expensive tooling, I know. Perhaps there isn’t the same enthusiasm for steam any more and nearly all of them were black, which I suppose would limit their appeal.

 

* Plus a GWR green version with GWR fittings.

[No Decorum]

12 hours ago, RichardT said:

 But late to the party replying to

this @coronach, but I probably didn’t make myself clear in my original comment - mentioning the V3 was in the context of Bachmann never having shown any signs of issuing it in the Farish range for N despite “owning” the prototype for (as you say) 30 years, and despite the fact that it’s a huge and obvious gap in the range of medium sized mixed traffic tank locos - which have been produced in N for the LMS, GWR and BR standards. I was trying to contrast that absence of such a useful everyday loco with the fact that a U1 does get produced (albeit in 4mm).  Anyway, this is OT as that’s about Bachmann not Heljan, and has been pointed out above with commendable lack of flummery, Heljan have no interest at all in the second-most popular UK modelling scale. So I know not to hold my breath for an N Tango, never mind a U1 🥲

 

RT

Ah! N.

[61661]

16 hours ago, Johan DC said:

I don't have much experience with Heljan, only have a couple of the very fine NER Railcars they made for RoS. 

It's a steep price, but if you compared with £200 for a G5, very reasonable. 

Is there a EU stockist where I can pre order?

Thanks. We think it will be good value, especially considering that it is effectively 2x 2-8-0s and four sets of wheels and motion. You will be able to order direct from www.Heljan.dk in the EU without having to get involved in any UK-related complications. 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Ah! N.

Oh!  L.

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

There isn’t the buzz in the O2 thread that there is in other threads, which is a little worrying. I get the impression that there are some enthusiastic fans rather than a host of enthusiasts.

Maybe the LNER fans are less prone to froth 😆 and patiently wait? 
I’m glad to see it as I like the U1 but will sit back and wait for updates watching the detail discussion with interest. I’ll go for the LNER black despite liking the grey as it’s not a service livery. 

[AlfaZagato]

I just realized my only LNER locos are a J70 and an ES1.   This'll look a sight pushing Toby along the mainline.

[Francis deWeck]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:40, BachelorBoy said:

Can we also have an East African Railways Class 59 4-8-2+2-8-4  Beyer Garratt in OO12, please?

 

 

 

Ah, that brings back some memories for me, when I was a colonial, Nairobi to Mombasa! We had to detrain to get to the restaurant car. If I remember the NRM had a large gauge (5 or 7") model of one such loco at the time.

[Rshakes3]

Well I`ve just pre ordered #3000 this morning. I have a LMS BG from the 2nd batch and it can be a right 'pain in the bum' somedays - the pickups seem to have a mind of their own somedays. However it is running well at this time and it is impressive when it does. So I hope the Heljan team have taken on board the issues/lessons from the earlier Garrets and that this U1 is a high quality product and a smooth runner from day 1 - looking forward to it with fingers crossed 🙂  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 20/11/2023 at 09:49, No Decorum said:

I do rather long for similar treatment for the O4s. Bachmann has produced a decent O4 and Hornby a Thompson O1, which I like to think of as more of an O4/9. There were, however, eight sub-classes, not to mention the O5s.

A little cobbling together of readily available earlier RTR loco body parts from B1, J39 and the more recent GBL D11 knock off, may not result in perfection, but makes possible credible representations of some of the more numerous class parts for relatively little outlay. It works particularly well in restoring the poor disfigured specimens with alien fittings and the wrong coloured paint.

On 20/11/2023 at 13:13, PaulRhB said:

Maybe the LNER fans are less prone to froth  and patiently wait? 

Sobriety and quiet endurance are our hallmarks; well, "Most of the Time"...

[Bucoops]

Shock horror quite a few DJH kits on ebay in various states now.

[Markeg]

This morning I found Heljan had posted a video of the first EP (Engineering Prototype) of the garratt on Facebook being tested.

They stated it is on its way to the UK from China for further scrutiny.

Looks very good/promising.  I suppose it will be posted here in due course.

If you have Facebook account, check out Heljan. Link below.

https://fb.watch/q6T4s5KFf1/

 

Mark in OZ 

Edited February 10 by Markeg

[No Decorum]

3 hours ago, Markeg said:

This morning I found Heljan had posted a video of the first EP (Engineering Prototype) of the garratt on Facebook being tested.

They stated it is on its way to the UK from China for further scrutiny.

Looks very good/promising.  I suppose it will be posted here in due course.

If you have Facebook account, check out Heljan. Link below.

https://fb.watch/q6T4s5KFf1/

 

Mark in OZ 

Thank you. I haven’t a Facebook account but I could still watch the video. Marvellous machine!