Dapol Class 323 in OO

[adb968008]

Really good announcement, not much on details at Warley today, but Dapol are showing that units can be made affordably.

 

I think this 323 will be a great success.

 

I think Centro and Reg Rlys for me.

Edited November 25, 2023 by adb968008

[jjb1970]

Excellent news from Dapol, 10 out of 10 for this one. Given that passenger operations have been dominated by MU types for decades there's still a chronic shortage of late BR/privatisation era units. There's more than many might think with some excellent models such as the Bachmann Voyager, 150, 158, 350, Realtrack 156, 143/4, Hornby 153, 395 and 8xx and with their FLIRT coming at some point but there are still big gaps and a bias to disel. Any modern EMU announcements should be applauded, so we'll done Dapol!

[VXDH92]

Fantastic news! There really aren't too many RTR commuter style trains available to WCML modellers of this era. Obviously some good DMU models out there, but for EMUs, there's only really the Bachmann 350, and that hasn't been produced for a while now.

 

The spec sounds really impressive, similar to the Bachmann 158. My only niggle is the posable pantograph... I'm not too fussed it's not motorised (though this would be nice) but I do hope it is sprung so I can use it against Peco OLE. Not 100% sure if it means posable as either down or up, or whether it's sprung. Something like the Bachmann 350 would be good - at least it can be used on OLE.

 

Great stuff Dapol - a bold move that I hope will prove fruitful. 

[PieGuyRob]

On 25/11/2023 at 12:28, Covkid said:

I guess you mean "aren't" ?

AFAIK Dapol have listed every livery they carried apart from a couple of one-off advertising specials in the West Mids. 

 

 

 They haven't done the First North Western dark blue with the gold star. Also they haven't announced the northern blue and purple livery.

[piranha240]

I hope they make the tooling correct for the early ones as they used to have very wide thick rubber windscreen surrounds.

[AMJ]

Need one without a motor and stripped to bare aluminium so that could represent shunting them into and out of the works whilst being built!

[Fair Oak Junction]

1 minute ago, AMJ said:

Need one without a motor and stripped to bare aluminium so that could represent shunting them into and out of the works whilst being built!

 

I'm sure there is someone on ebay who makes 323 bodyshells, those would probably be ideal for that 😉

[47509]

In a similar vein. Would there be a market for manufacturers of 25kv units, to do unpowered ones, so they can be put between barrier vehicles and towed? As I have no overheads, they are not for me, but would certainly buy a couple of “dummy” sets to put between barrier vehicles.  They would obviously need no lights, power, working pantograph etc, so would expect to retail slightly cheaper.

[The Meerkat]

On 25/11/2023 at 10:16, Benjamin Brady said:

Is this the reason the announcement is so early as there is a duplication on the way

 

who else is making this? 

[Benjamin Brady]

5 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

 

who else is making this? 

No one that I know of. It was just a comment earlier on about not expecting to see it from Dapol. 

 

I'm very please it had been announced and I hope it is a shift to more a emu from all manufacturers 

[The Meerkat]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Brady said:

No one that I know of. It was just a comment earlier on about not expecting to see it from Dapol. 

 

I'm very please it had been announced and I hope it is a shift to more a emu from all manufacturers 

ahhh got you,  yes i agree,  i be ordering one, i wasn't expecting it from Dapol, specs so far looks very good,  speaker in all 3 coaches as well

[Legend]

7 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

ahhh got you,  yes i agree,  i be ordering one, i wasn't expecting it from Dapol, specs so far looks very good,  speaker in all 3 coaches as well

 

Is traction spread across three cars in the real thing?  I thought in a 3 car emu that there were 2 driving cars containing the actual motors that make the noise  and the transformer/ electrical gubbins was in the center . What noises would they make ?

[Adam1701D]

16 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

ahhh got you,  yes i agree,  i be ordering one, i wasn't expecting it from Dapol, specs so far looks very good,  speaker in all 3 coaches as well

The 323 will have a speaker in each driving car, with the motor in the centre car. All coaches are through-wired via 14 pin connections, so only one DCC chip needed.

[No Decorum]

35 minutes ago, Adam1701D said:

The 323 will have a speaker in each driving car, with the motor in the centre car. All coaches are through-wired via 14 pin connections, so only one DCC chip needed.

I assume that the pantograph will not be servo-controlled as it isn’t mentioned. May I ask if it will be metal, so that it won’t be cut through by OHLE?

[Adam1701D]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I assume that the pantograph will not be servo-controlled as it isn’t mentioned. May I ask if it will be metal, so that it won’t be cut through by OHLE?

The panto will not be servo-controlled, as it would intrude too far into the passenger compartment but it will be made of of metal, following feedback over the weekend.

[eldomtom2]

Thank God for Dapol. Hopefully we see more modern EMUs in the future.

[RPNaylor0301]

23 hours ago, 47509 said:

In a similar vein. Would there be a market for manufacturers of 25kv units, to do unpowered ones, so they can be put between barrier vehicles and towed? As I have no overheads, they are not for me, but would certainly buy a couple of “dummy” sets to put between barrier vehicles.  They would obviously need no lights, power, working pantograph etc, so would expect to retail slightly cheaper.

I think Dapol themselves broke down the costs as a reason for discontinuing the dummy loco / MUs in N gauge. By the time the R&D / tooling / modified tooling for a dummy chassis etc had been done, the removal of the motor and electrics saved next to nothing. 

 

Obviously all relative so as DCC models get more complicated the saving gap might widen, but I struggle to see the manufacturers being able to deliver for an effective difference in price. 

[Adam1701D]

There are only a few pounds different between producing dummy and powered locos these days. It is just not viable anymore.

[WCML100]

A welcome announcement (and a pleasant surprise) - not for me as I try keep strictly to my region etc - but great overall for the hobby. Hopefully this helps the argument for more modern multiple units in both diesel and electric form 😃

[phil-b259]

On 25/11/2023 at 17:29, Oldddudders said:

Weren't the 465s in service before them?

They were, but the 465s are 750V DC con rail units!

 

The poster was asking if 323 were the first 25KV AC units with AC motors - the answer to which is Yes. 
 

[adb968008]

On 25/11/2023 at 15:35, wombatofludham said:

They were the first which is why they were so long getting into service.  BR at the time was worried that the electrics might cause wrong side failures on signalling and so insisted on monitoring software which, if it detected any odd electrical outputs, would cut the power.  Unfortunately in one example frosty weather caused arcing and sparking from the pantographs and generated enough interference to shut the units down.  The software had to be tweaked several times as I understand it.  There were other issues but the nature of the electronic traction package and the potential for signalling interference was the main delay.

The irony is the much older 4-REP units were well known for causing signals to momentarily flicker on approach and the problem persisted when the traction kit was transplanted into the Plastic Pigs yet that was relatively simple, albeit high power, straight DC kit but it never seemed to get the same amount of publicity or attention as the 323s.

Wasnt fitting AC equipment the ultimate downfall of the 442’s ?

 

on a separate note I have seen a 92 flick a signal to red on an opposite track at Finsbury Park.

[Roy Langridge]

20 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Wasnt fitting AC equipment the ultimate downfall of the 442’s ?

 

on a separate note I have seen a 92 flick a signal to red on an opposite track at Finsbury Park.

I think planning to bring back the 442s was the first mistake of a series. The ultimate downfall was, I think, Covid. 
 

Roy

Edited November 29, 2023 by Roy Langridge

[Oldddudders]

On 28/11/2023 at 17:15, phil-b259 said:

They were, but the 465s are 750V DC con rail units!

 

The poster was asking if 323 were the first 25KV AC units with AC motors - the answer to which is Yes. 
 

No he wasn't. No mention of 25kV, just AC motors. Having known several members of the 465 team, and talked to Jim Vine, Project Director, at The Grove in 1990, I probably knew they were 750v DC, 

[JackB95]

@Adam1701D don't suppose you can shed some light onto whether a Northern purple and blue version will be released? That's what I'd ideally like a model of 🙃 thanks! 

[Adam1701D]

It is not in the initial line-up, as there are too many liveries to do all at once. If the 323 does well, then I am sure it will appear in the next batch.

 

We are producing a 323 in First Barbie livery with Northern branding, if that is of interest.