Hornby latest 8F

[No Decorum]

21 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

One model is marked as 'Last Few' on the Hornby website and I guess we'll see if the other is close behind it. In terms of 'shouldn't have made it into production' that doesn't look true going off sales of at least one version? 

I fell for that one some years ago. After a panic-stricken buy, Hornby found “fresh” supplies from somewhere.

[No Decorum]

28 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Good morning Alan,

What I find frustrating is that Hornby have the solution readily available in most instances, or if not, quite a simply alteration to make it better.

As a world leader I expect them to be on the ball and to have a QA system that actually includes review meetings to discuss what they are going to make. This model should not have made it into productio. Simples.

Having worked in QA for a world leading company in its field, it probably grates with me rather more than with most people. 

However, putting the clock back around 30 years, with the smoke box dart, should be a sign to most people that all is not well in the Hornby camp. 

To twist a phrase. They cannot be serious.

As I wrote many years ago. We all love Hornby and want them to do well. I do not view this model as progress.

Continuous improvement it certainly is not. I await the next backward step with interest. I am also interested to see the prie they will set for the next fully new steam locomotive. It has to be knocking on the door of £300 going by this model, unless they cut corners again. If they do I can see the ceiling being breached in respect of customer loyalty.

Bernard

I’m not loyal to any manufacturer; I tend to go by past performance. I have found Bachmann to be normally reliable but even Bachmann fails occasionally. Hornby has released so many faulty models onto the market recently that I wait to read here what the unfortunate first buyers have to say before I bite, which I often don’t. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has to choose what to buy each month (how the market has changed!) and Hornby would do well to consider that.

[ColinB]

I did wonder the same in how many of those "sold out" 8F Owners are disappointed with their new model especially when the previous version was better. 

[sjp23480]

May be this is all a ruse and Hornby will do a second batch that address these problems, making this (faulty) batch highly collectable?  🤨

[Right Away]

On 08/02/2024 at 12:50, Fair Oak Junction said:

So, Hornby are charging £250 for a 20 year loco but the new tooled Black 5s are £230?

Am I missing something here? 🤔

 

Relieved that I decided to grab a “5” and an “8” for just over £100 each new, two years ago when a local shop was having a “clear out”.

Once home and tested, various mods were undertaken to improve their appearances (I renumbered the “5”)  - please see photos.

Overall, relatively pleased with, what nowadays, might be considered two “cheap” acquisitions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maico]

On 20/02/2024 at 08:24, Bernard Lamb said:

 

Continuous improvement it certainly is not. I await the next backward step with interest. 

 

Here you go, 2025 MY Hornby LNER 0-4-0

[Right Away]

On 15/02/2024 at 13:14, adb968008 said:

 … and the non nem compliant lump of a pony truck are what lets it down most imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very strongly agree.

I attacked mine with a Dremel in an attempt to disguise it.

Edited February 22 by Right Away
correction

[ColinB]

I was trying to find the latest Service Sheet for the 8F, that references R3564. The only one I can find is 261d on both the New Modellers and Hornby sites. Service sheet 261d refences the older models before they added the decoder to the tender. Any idea if Hornby posted a later one?

[Right Away]

19 hours ago, ColinB said:

I was trying to find the latest Service Sheet for the 8F, that references R3564. The only one I can find is 261d on both the New Modellers and Hornby sites. Service sheet 261d refences the older models before they added the decoder to the tender. Any idea if Hornby posted a later one?

 

Please see close up of R3564, purchased Spring 2022. (If I can dig the box out of  the attic later, I’ll check the supplied sheet.)

 

Edited February 23 by Right Away
correction

[ColinB]

I bought a "new old stock" R3564 off EBay and I didn't realise how dated it was for a model of this age. There is not even a plug to the tender so you can easily disconnect it but it does have the separately fitted smokebox parts. I have a really old weathered 8F and was amazed that there were no body upgrades, there is still the big hole where the original firebox glow lamp fitted. So how long before Horny peddle this for a huge price. I was really surprised when I was looking at the releases for 2024 and found the latest Britannia retails for less. I suppose I have been spoiled, I have been buying Accurascale and Cavalex models lately and these are such good value items.

[Right Away]

I had some initial reservation in 2022 about buying the Hornby R3564 as their “latest” Stanier 8F, a class of engine I had not owned before. As previously mentioned, had it not been for a very reasonable asking price and the news of a forthcoming, new (er expensive!) Black Five and fearing which might follow regarding a possible overdue, newly tooled and equally pricey 8F, I would have forgone the purchase.

 

However prototypical of this particular engine, I feel a Fowler tender gives a disproportionate appearance of size to the ensemble from whichever viewpoint it is seen. I really required a Stanier tender which I was unable to source at the time, pending a change of  locomotive identity. I undertook to try and improve the Fowler version by trimming at a slight angle the top edges of the tender sides and rear behind the coal bunker to give an illusion of reduced thickness, where it is particularly prominent.

Another visual enhancement was the fitting of a shortened drawbar made from brass strip, bringing the tender much closer to the engine. I followed the angles of the original “cranked” drawbar when forming the new, shorter brass version and then drilled the pivot holes.

The grinding away of some of the leading truck casting has been mentioned previously.

Given weathering and a few other tweaks, the model gives a reasonably acceptable appearance of a “foreigner” when working in on a freight from the LMR on my BR (SR) railway.

 

[daltonparva]

On 15/02/2024 at 16:29, daltonparva said:

I've been to Rails this afternoon as they're having a Hornby event with a couple of Hornby people there, and I wanted to pick someone's brains about a small niggle with a HM7000 decoder. Both Hornby people are now aware (they weren't) about the smokebox door and will be conversing with the relevant department when they return. As luck would have it, Rails have both new examples in a cabinet (both have old moulded door), and in another second hand cabinet they have a previous modern release 8F with and older example 8F side by side, so both could be compared. Both chappies were at a loss to know why the old door has migrated on to the new model.  I also pointed out Hornby's promotional stuff show it should have the newer door.

Further to the above I had email conversations with one of the Hornby people, and he was very helpful regarding my HM7000 query, if fact he went well above and beyond what I was expecting from him. On the smokebox door query this is what he sent on 23/02.24:-

 

"Regarding the smoke box door, please allow me to ask the Development Manager.

 

I’m guessing your query is regarding if this is new tooling of the 8F smoke box door?"

 

And this is what I received from him an hour ago:-

 

"The Hornby Development Manager has mentioned that ‘unfortunately this was the only tooling available for the smokebox door at the time of asking’.

 

Sorry XXXX, I apologise but I personally cannot comment any further on this."

 

Make of the above what you will.

 

 

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, daltonparva said:

 

"The Hornby Development Manager has mentioned that ‘unfortunately this was the only tooling available for the smokebox door at the time of asking’.

 

 

I'll stick with my earlier speculation then that the 'proper' tool has been lost or damaged, rather than a deliberate strategy to 'dumb down' the 8F

Edited February 27 by spamcan61

[Fair Oak Junction]

These things happen, tooling wears out, gets lost, who knows. To me the issue is that Hornby thought it was acceptable to charge £250 RRP on a model with a smokebox door that old.

But it is what it is and apparently it isn't stopping it from selling.

[Fair Oak Junction]

It could be argued Hornby are false advertising, as the product image on their website shows one with a newer style smokebox door with clear daylight behind the dart.

Edited February 27 by Fair Oak Junction

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, daltonparva said:

Further to the above I had email conversations with one of the Hornby people, and he was very helpful regarding my HM7000 query, if fact he went well above and beyond what I was expecting from him. On the smokebox door query this is what he sent on 23/02.24:-

 

"Regarding the smoke box door, please allow me to ask the Development Manager.

 

I’m guessing your query is regarding if this is new tooling of the 8F smoke box door?"

 

And this is what I received from him an hour ago:-

 

"The Hornby Development Manager has mentioned that ‘unfortunately this was the only tooling available for the smokebox door at the time of asking’.

 

Sorry XXXX, I apologise but I personally cannot comment any further on this."

 

Make of the above what you will.

 

 

Thank you for getting the response and sharing it with us. The response from Hornby sounds a bit suspect seeing as they last marketed it not that long ago I suspect after the previous owners binned a lot of the tooling but it is what it is. The price they are charging is probably the highest of any of their models currently on sale, I am just glad I didn't buy one.

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 hours ago, daltonparva said:

Make of the above what you will.

 

CBA, a good old Hornby trait regrettably.

 

Mike.

[G-BOAF]

Looks and sounds like they used the door tooling for the old tender drive 8F, as this is the only possible explanation as to this 'shortcut'.

What I don't understand is that I can't imagine the door, handles and lamp iron are on an exclusive tool. Therefore if the door itself was damaged, make a new door tool and you still have access to the other parts in another area of the tooling. And if you are making a new tool due to damage, it won't cost much more to tool up a door, handles and lamp iron into a new tool, vs just a door with integrated detail.

Edited February 28 by G-BOAF

[spamcan61]

21 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Looks and sounds like they used the door tooling for the old tender drive 8F, as this is the only possible explanation as to this 'shortcut'.

What I don't understand is that I can't imagine the door, handles and lamp iron are on an exclusive tool. Therefore if the door itself was damaged, make a new door tool and you still have access to the other parts in another area of the tooling. And if you are making a new tool due to damage, it won't cost much more to tool up a door, handles and lamp iron into a new tool, vs just a door with integrated detail.

Making a new tool takes time and money, I would suspect they'd lose their slot on the production line in the meantime then it's maybe 6-18 months (guess) before they can get another slot.

Edited February 28 by spamcan61

[ColinB]

24 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Looks and sounds like they used the door tooling for the old tender drive 8F, as this is the only possible explanation as to this 'shortcut'.

What I don't understand is that I can't imagine the door, handles and lamp iron are on an exclusive tool. Therefore if the door itself was damaged, make a new door tool and you still have access to the other parts in another area of the tooling. And if you are making a new tool due to damage, it won't cost much more to tool up a door, handles and lamp iron into a new tool, vs just a door with integrated detail.

If one of the old Hornby programs on the TV was right, the old tender drive tooling got binned when the owners before SK took over. I am not even sure that Hornby make a Railroad loco with those smokebox dimensions. To me it sounds like they picked up the wrong drawing when they got them made.

To be honest it is really a Railroad standard loco with tender pickups, although some of the Railroad models do have them anyway. The cab the smokebox are in no way worthy of a super detailed sticker.

Edited February 28 by ColinB

[MikeParkin65]

6 hours ago, ColinB said:

I am not even sure that Hornby make a Railroad loco with those smokebox dimensions. 

 

Railroad Black 5

[ColinB]

23 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Railroad Black 5

How long ago was that? I think the last one on sale was the super detailed one. I just checked because I remember buying it, it was part of the one:one collection. Either way it makes no difference they obviously found a pile of them from somewhere.

Edited February 28 by ColinB

[Butler Henderson]

Reviewed in the April Model Rail; no need to look further for the April Fool.

[adb968008]

On 28/02/2024 at 11:34, ColinB said:

If one of the old Hornby programs on the TV was right, the old tender drive tooling got binned when the owners before SK took over. I am not even sure that Hornby make a Railroad loco with those smokebox dimensions. To me it sounds like they picked up the wrong drawing when they got them made.

To be honest it is really a Railroad standard loco with tender pickups, although some of the Railroad models do have them anyway. The cab the smokebox are in no way worthy of a super detailed sticker.

The railroad 8f ?

its dimensionally pretty much the same on the “new” 8f body, just mods around the firebox.

When I first compared them I initially thought the “new” 8f was an upgraded old body it was so close.. but then the details crept out.

 

Ive a chassis somewhere to upgrade my 1990’s sentimental 48758 to a 2000’s era chassis… needs a bit of cutting around the firebox buti’m confident it will go in.

 

The biggest visual difference between railroad and 2000’s era body is the retaining lug for the chassis screw under the smokebox on the railroad era one… (and the ugly tender obviously).

 

Some railroad chassis parts persist in the 2000’s era model… the pony wheel and truck.

 

Edited March 12 by adb968008

[ColinB]

32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The railroad 8f ?

its dimensionally pretty much the same on the “new” 8f body, just mods around the firebox.

When I first compared them I initially thought the “new” 8f was an upgraded old body it was so close.. but then the details crept out.

 

Ive a chassis somewhere to upgrade my 1990’s sentimental 48758 to a 2000’s era chassis… needs a bit of cutting around the firebox buti’m confident it will go in.

 

The biggest visual difference between railroad and 2000’s era body is the retaining lug for the chassis screw under the smokebox on the railroad era one… (and the ugly tender obviously).

 

Some railroad chassis parts persist in the 2000’s era model… the pony wheel and truck.

 

The one that is even worse is the Fowler tender based one. I bought a "new old stock" one off EBay and was amazed at how crude the tender was. The tender looks to be hardwired to the loco. If Hornby remarket this one without any improvements I will definitely know they have lost the plot.