Hornby latest 8F

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

The one that is even worse is the Fowler tender based one. I bought a "new old stock" one off EBay and was amazed at how crude the tender was.

Might have been the Airfix one from the 4F tweaked with coal rails added.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

The one that is even worse is the Fowler tender based one. I bought a "new old stock" one off EBay and was amazed at how crude the tender was. The tender looks to be hardwired to the loco. If Hornby remarket this one without any improvements I will definitely know they have lost the plot.

That 8f (c2017) was released with a modified Airfix 4f tender, as used on the railroad 4f, which itself had been modified when they made it loco drive.

The 8f is the ugly brother of Hornbys black5… always has been… surprising considering theres more liveries and less variations… (48169/48403 would be interesting with the lnwr webbed style wheels, as would the ww2 versions) and if your a late 60’s NW modeller you cant do it without armfuls of them.

Whats let all 3 x 8f iterations down (Dublo inc) is the gap between the frames visible under the boiler has not been modelled… and all of them have poor wheels/motion…

 

if someone made a new 8f, and used the motor/block inside the boiler, as Heljan used in its 47xx, with a-gear train through the firebox,  a cracking representative of between the frames under the boiler of the 8f could be rendered.

 

 

Edited March 12 by adb968008

[Silver Sidelines]

Design clever or just a mistake.  Sadly like dogs they are only allowed one bite.

 

I have to admit to not reading this thread before purchasing 48518.  It is a nice model now...  When D0G first arrived I had to fit sprung buffers and a smoke box dart.  Move on to 2024 I was not expecting to find another model with a moulded smoke box details.  I think I was so taken aback by the gap between the engine and tender that I didn't notice the smoke box,   What were Hornby thinking about with nearly an inch gap between engine and tender?  I estimate that as supplied the engine to tneder coupling is 7.5mm too long.  As said it is a nice engine that runs and starts off smoothly - unlike the Accurascale Manor that it is deputising for in this little video.

 

Cheers Ray

 

 

[McC]

If your manor doesn’t start smoothly (assuming a good dcc controller) Try increasing the voltage to the recommended 14v ?

[Silver Sidelines]

32 minutes ago, McC said:

If your manor doesn’t start smoothly (assuming a good dcc controller) Try increasing the voltage to the recommended 14v ?

 

Now then that 's a good answer.  Where is it recommended?  I tried discussing this matter with your Patrick and Simon and they never mentioned 14v.  You do realise that this is an analogue layout?

 

Cheers  Ray

[Flying Pig]

Passing comment about an AS loco on a Hornby thread.  Shadow across the moon, flutter of capes and in swoops the AS inquisitor with a handy suggestion.  Hello, Len.

 

You can sort of understand why we don't have long angsty threads like this one in the Accurascale forum.

[Right Away]

On 03/04/2024 at 15:35, Silver Sidelines said:

Design clever or just a mistake.  Sadly like dogs they are only allowed one bite.

 

I have to admit to not reading this thread before purchasing 48518.  It is a nice model now...  When D0G first arrived I had to fit sprung buffers and a smoke box dart.  Move on to 2024 I was not expecting to find another model with a moulded smoke box details.  I think I was so taken aback by the gap between the engine and tender that I didn't notice the smoke box,   What were Hornby thinking about with nearly an inch gap between engine and tender?  I estimate that as supplied the engine to tneder coupling is 7.5mm too long.  As said it is a nice engine that runs and starts off smoothly - unlike the Accurascale Manor that it is deputising for in this little video.

 

Cheers Ray

 

 

Agree with your remark about the 8F loco to tender distance. Having generous track curvature, I produced a replacement drawbar from thin brass strip; in the case of a Fowler tender this new drawbar must replicate the angles of the factory fitted version.

(Note: Tension locks have also been modified for closer coupling of vehicles)

 

 

[45568]

Just glancing through EBay, and there is a tranche of early model 8Fs all at 99.50 with free postage, here is a link to one, just look at the seller's other items.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335340550025?epid=1872203085&itmmeta=01HV3PPE8JPYMX2C11NQ3QQT0C&hash=item4e13dab789:g:DLoAAOSwEN5mFRpX&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwFEgj7zJebmFKGbBGSY%2BuTrN8DVvzoypyT9fZsSsFHcMEjdxzG9LLYjllX9PRJ34gMe%2B3aaWPqQL69XUqO4hhChDFaY2qmLO06vOnFuZUdN4mehw%2F7JjRS4ZC76WD4mxJXb6yY9dyDKQ74yfh7jsTbzn3s5Rk%2FzT9nRsZ%2FhLwZixOoEPTi%2BLitmFGP6wMuMROgiaWGBSSxD4n5u0wSXeMlmYixP8o7EJbzd12C53zIRjp%2FepQDN%2FArzMBT2p7ckSlA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Lk2fbYYw

 

Just realised they are from Gostude no less!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

[micklner]

2 hours ago, 45568 said:

Just glancing through EBay, and there is a tranche of early model 8Fs all at 99.50 with free postage, here is a link to one, just look at the seller's other items.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335340550025?epid=1872203085&itmmeta=01HV3PPE8JPYMX2C11NQ3QQT0C&hash=item4e13dab789:g:DLoAAOSwEN5mFRpX&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwFEgj7zJebmFKGbBGSY%2BuTrN8DVvzoypyT9fZsSsFHcMEjdxzG9LLYjllX9PRJ34gMe%2B3aaWPqQL69XUqO4hhChDFaY2qmLO06vOnFuZUdN4mehw%2F7JjRS4ZC76WD4mxJXb6yY9dyDKQ74yfh7jsTbzn3s5Rk%2FzT9nRsZ%2FhLwZixOoEPTi%2BLitmFGP6wMuMROgiaWGBSSxD4n5u0wSXeMlmYixP8o7EJbzd12C53zIRjp%2FepQDN%2FArzMBT2p7ckSlA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Lk2fbYYw

 

Just realised they are from Gostude no less!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

Must be some real bargains on there !! 🤣

 

 

Errrr no !!🙃

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, 45568 said:

Just glancing through EBay, and there is a tranche of early model 8Fs all at 99.50 with free postage, here is a link to one, just look at the seller's other items.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335340550025?epid=1872203085&itmmeta=01HV3PPE8JPYMX2C11NQ3QQT0C&hash=item4e13dab789:g:DLoAAOSwEN5mFRpX&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwFEgj7zJebmFKGbBGSY%2BuTrN8DVvzoypyT9fZsSsFHcMEjdxzG9LLYjllX9PRJ34gMe%2B3aaWPqQL69XUqO4hhChDFaY2qmLO06vOnFuZUdN4mehw%2F7JjRS4ZC76WD4mxJXb6yY9dyDKQ74yfh7jsTbzn3s5Rk%2FzT9nRsZ%2FhLwZixOoEPTi%2BLitmFGP6wMuMROgiaWGBSSxD4n5u0wSXeMlmYixP8o7EJbzd12C53zIRjp%2FepQDN%2FArzMBT2p7ckSlA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Lk2fbYYw

 

Just realised they are from Gostude no less!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

 

That is not just old, it is ancient.

Look at the loco to tender connection.

Much later models with the plug are avalable.

Bernard

[cctransuk]

18 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

That is not just old, it is ancient.

Look at the loco to tender connection.

Much later models with the plug are avalable.

Bernard

 

Nonetheless, if you remove the tender 'shelf', a perfectly acceptable layout loco.

 

CJI.

[phil-b259]

On 10/04/2024 at 13:51, Bernard Lamb said:

That is not just old, it is ancient.

Look at the loco to tender connection.

 

No it’s not - the plug and socket setup (usually accompanied by moving the decoder socket into the tender) was retrofitted to a number of ‘super detailed’  models* around 10 years after the tooling was first released - and no changes were made to the body shells or chassis at that time.

 

As such the type of loco to tender connection makes zero difference to how the loco looks (or runs - I have several of locos fitted with the original setup that run perfectly well with it), the only real difference is that if you want to fit sound then having the decoder in the tender means you would probably want to go for a later release with the monied loco - tender coupling.
 

* Tbe N15 was another

Edited April 11 by phil-b259

[Bernard Lamb]

4 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

No it’s not - the plug and socket setup (usually accompanied by moving the decoder socket into the tender) was retrofitted to a number of ‘super detailed’  models* around 10 years after the tooling was first released - and no changes were made to the body shells or chassis at that time.

 

As such the toe of loco to tender connection makes zero difference to how the loco looks (or runs - I have several of locos fitted with the original setup that run perfectly well with it), the only real difference is that if you want to fit sound then having the decoder in the tender means you would probably want to go for a later release with the monied loco - tender coupling.
 

* Tbe N15 was another

Have it your own way,

This model has a low 2k series number. There are models about with a mid 3k series number.

One is old and one is ancient as I call it.

If you buy one of these there is no history of where it has been. What temperature has it been stored at? What is the lubrication like?

I have one from this period and it runs well. I nnow its history.

Is a model that old worth close to £100?

To quote you. No it's not. It's our old friend having a laugh yet again.

I thought , as a group of experienced folk on here. that we knew bettet than that.

Bernard

With apologies for posting in this thread, instead of the ebay madness one.

 

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Nonetheless, if you remove the tender 'shelf', a perfectly acceptable layout loco.

 

CJI.

If you bought one around the time that they were current. Even better with some Brassmasters bits added.

Worth £99 today?

I think not.

Bernard

[phil-b259]

27 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Have it your own way,

This model has a low 2k series number. There are models about with a mid 3k series number.

One is old and one is ancient as I call it.

If you buy one of these there is no history of where it has been. What temperature has it been stored at? What is the lubrication like?

I have one from this period and it runs well. I nnow its history.

Is a model that old worth close to £100?

To quote you. No it's not. It's our old friend having a laugh yet again.

I thought , as a group of experienced folk on here. that we knew bettet than that.

Bernard

With apologies for posting in this thread, instead of the ebay madness one.

 

I’m talking about the tooling - not how much something may have been used or how well an owner may have serviced it before selling it on.

 

You could easily get a 10 year old model full of dust and fluff and having been used intensely (but with the plug and socket setup)

 

You could also get a 20 year old model that has run very low miles and been regularly serviced by its owner with the wiper 1980s style connector on it.

 

Which of the above do you think is a better buy…..

 

Judging a models merits simply on the basis of a minor tweak to a connector and DCC socket location is rather foolish - the whole point of buying an 8F is to get a good model of an 8F steam locomotive - not a lump of metal and plastic with a DCC socket on it!

Edited April 10 by phil-b259

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Nonetheless, if you remove the tender 'shelf', a perfectly acceptable layout loco.

 

CJI.

I bought one of the old loco driven ones R2249 and other than on the later one, where the socket is in the tender there is no difference. On mine, I bought the later tender bottom and updated it to the latest decoder arrangement. Probably the only difference between mine and the newer one is that mine has separately fitted parts on the smokebox door. I still can't believe that Hornby have not filled that huge hole where the firebox is, where on really old models there was a bulb for firebox glow. On mine the wheels didn't move sideways enough and it derailed. I just had to do a bit of maintenance and it was perfect. Trouble is with second hand locos there are lots of reasons they are being sold, sometimes it is because they never worked properly from new, but generally most things are fixable.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Anyone remember the "Great British Locomotives"  partwork from ten years ago?

[phil-b259]

25 minutes ago, ColinB said:

I bought one of the old loco driven ones R2249 and other than on the later one, where the socket is in the tender there is no difference. On mine, I bought the later tender bottom and updated it to the latest decoder arrangement. Probably the only difference between mine and the newer one is that mine has separately fitted parts on the smokebox door. I still can't believe that Hornby have not filled that huge hole where the firebox is, where on really old models there was a bulb for firebox glow. On mine the wheels didn't move sideways enough and it derailed. I just had to do a bit of maintenance and it was perfect. Trouble is with second hand locos there are lots of reasons they are being sold, sometimes it is because they never worked properly from new, but generally most things are fixable.

The ‘super detailed’ model was introduced with separately fitted details like lamp irons and smokebox door handles from the very beginning plus finely made valve gear / connecting rods. Although It did retain the older wiper strips and peg type coupling from the 1980s, all other elements including the chassis and body shells (including the tender) were completely new tooling.

 

It share NOTHING in tooling terms with the previous 1980s era tender drive model (which had provision for the crude ‘firebox glow’ feature) that preceded it lacked the aforementioned separately fitted detail plus with fitted heavy chunky motion components.

[Flying Pig]

56 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Anyone remember the "Great British Locomotives"  partwork from ten years ago?

 

Not since the doctor adjusted my prescription, no.

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

The ‘super detailed’ model was introduced with separately fitted details like lamp irons and smokebox door handles from the very beginning plus finely made valve gear / connecting rods. Although It did retain the older wiper strips and peg type coupling from the 1980s, all other elements including the chassis and body shells (including the tender) were completely new tooling.

 

It share NOTHING in tooling terms with the previous 1980s era tender drive model (which had provision for the crude ‘firebox glow’ feature) that preceded it lacked the aforementioned separately fitted detail plus with fitted heavy chunky motion components.

What are you on about, I was talking about the loco driven option which I gather dates from way after 1980. The 1980 model was tender drive and unless I got the numbering wrong mine is a loco drive model which is what I said. I suspect like with most Hornby models the body is probably derived from the 1980s version probably using the same mould with a few bits cut away which is the same for the Duchess, A4s and A3s and as far as I remember Hornby haven't made a loco driven one on the new chassis with firebox glow but there still is a rather large hole in the  cab for it. It even exists on the current model. So perhaps you would like to explain what you are actually on about?

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, ColinB said:

What are you on about, I was talking about the loco driven option which I gather dates from way after 1980. The 1980 model was tender drive and unless I got the numbering wrong mine is a loco drive model which is what I said. I suspect like with most Hornby models the body is probably derived from the 1980s version probably using the same mould with a few bits cut away which is the same for the Duchess, A4s and A3s and as far as I remember Hornby haven't made a loco driven one on the new chassis with firebox glow but there still is a rather large hole in the  cab for it. It even exists on the current model. So perhaps you would like to explain what you are actually on about?

Yes and no…

 

The original plastic Hornby 8f was 1989, with 48758 one of the first released. Iirc there was 3 different numbers offered in BR and 3 in LMS.

 

The front was all new, the rear used the Black 5 tender (today we call railroad). It was tender drive, and had firebox flicker.

 

This continued in production until it went to China when R2055 in 1998 was the last made with the tooling.

In 2002 R2227 (7675 NE) R2228  (8510 in NE) and R2229  (48154) marked the arrival of the new tooling. I do not know how they arrived at the new tooling, but some inheritance has moved across… the dimensions are the same on the body aside of the firebox. Either Hornby got it right first time, or they copied it.
 

The pony truck is the same, as is the pony wheel, If you look through Hornby L numbers you can see some carry overs. The loco body is new though, little things give it away.. the sandbox covers handles changed to horizontal from vertical, the pipe to the top feed has the outer wrapper, and the big lump under the smokebox for the screw has gone… obviously the new tooling picked up new separate details like lamp irons, sprung buffers, cabside windshields etc. other things that give away the new body was a decent back head, footplate fittings, roof vents, doors and fall plate… the old one had nothing inside, apart a backhead rendition.

The big mod was the chassis being all new, loco drive, requiring a hole under the firebox / rear boiler to fit it. It is possible to mod an old railroad 8f to the new chassis.

 

The stanier tender is new.

 

As @phil-b259 it was upgraded in 2017 to change the pickups from the sprung plunger to a jst (R3564) at the same time the 8 pin DCC was moved from chassis to tender, to support sound. other mods were made with 48045 in 2017 when the airfix tender was released.

 

The last version made without JST was R3083 (Limited Edition of TCDD 45161) for Proses in Turkey in 2012.

 

The 8f though is really quite old. How accurate it is i’ll leave to others but certainly it lacks detail under the boiler, the pony truck is awful and cast wheels today are much better than Hornbys pressed rims.

 

If your buying an R2227 onwards though, your essentially buying the same thing, with some electrical mods along the way. As far as price goes 48151 was new for £90 in 2013.. so inflations been kind to it.

 

What I do note is volume, the 8f hasnt been big in Hornbys range over 22 years, theyve made 19.. inc odd balls like TCDD, NE, a Fowler tender, a weird orange weathered one and 3 different LMS IDs at once (R2394 + A, B) as well as preserved 48773 and 48151, and recently scrapped 48518… They missed 8624/48624 in maroon, LMR Blue and missed wartime WD and overseas options [Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq and 90’s TCDD], which is an omission considering how well Bachmann did the WD making 3x Dutch NS, KCR -Hong Kong, Desert sand, WD and LMR editions… they made 28.. many just plain black BR WDs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, ColinB said:

What are you on about, I was talking about the loco driven option which I gather dates from way after 1980.

WRONG!
 

Loco drive didn’t appear in ANY of Hornbys models until production was transferred to China in the 2000s!

 

Once production had been transferred to China Hornby started the process of re-tooling popular items in their range and the 8F was one of the early products which benefited from this with both the loco and tender being new tooling both with respect to the innards and the bodies themselves.

 

Come 2010ish Some of the 1980s era tender drive products got a chassis makeover to eliminate the tender drive mechanism and appeared in the ‘RailRoad’ range - but I’m not sure if the 8F was one of the models so treated.

 

Edited April 10 by phil-b259

[ColinB]

8 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

WRONG!
 

Loco drive didn’t appear in ANY of Hornbys models until production was transferred to China in the 2000s!

 

Once production had been transferred to China Hornby started the process of re-tooling popular items in their range and the 8F was one of the early products which benefited from this with both the loco and tender being new tooling both with respect to the innards and the bodies themselves.

 

Come 2010ish Some of the 1980s era tender drive products got a chassis makeover to eliminate the tender drive mechanism and appeared in the ‘RailRoad’ range - but I’m not sure if the 8F was one of the models so treated.

 

No, it is you that are wrong and anyway why are you adopting that childish behaviour, I thought we were all adults on this forum. adb968008 has given a really good answer and as they have identified mine is a Chinese model from after 2002 which I would have stated but I didn't want to get into exact dates for someone to shoot me down if I got it half a year out. As adb968008 has said it their informative reply not a great deal has changed from the original model of 2002 which is what I observed seeing as I have a 2002 one and a much later one, other than the JST connector to the tender. I can't remember if my early one had a DCC socket as I would add one anyway but I imagine this probably got added after 2002.

[melmoth]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Loco drive didn’t appear in ANY of Hornbys models until production was transferred to China in the 2000s!

 

 

This is at least partly wrong. Hornby started to move production to China in 1995/96. Margate closed in 1999. The first new loco drive model was the Merchant Navy in 2000. The first loco drive 8F was in 2002. Lots of good information here  http://www.hornbyguide.com/logo_menu.asp

Edited April 11 by melmoth
clarification

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

WRONG!
 

Loco drive didn’t appear in ANY of Hornbys models until production was transferred to China in the 2000s!

 

not strictly true..  the Ivatt 2-6-0 was always loco drive. For some reason they just stopped making it in 1978. My guess is the new 0-6-0 motor mounting was too high for the Ivatt boiler, the tender too low for the  ringfield, so ended up a short life span tooling..

 

B12 was another, this time a hang over from Triang which over lapped the tender drive revolution and move from x04 motors, but it came loco drive in Hornby boxes.

 

Hornby were making loco drive models of the WC into the 1990’s…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334520739581

Exeter and 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/14709/hornby_r310_battle_of_britain_class_4_6_2_lord_beaverbrook_34054_in_br_green/stockdetail

 

This iirc was made circa same year as the 8f.

 

The 1980’s Rocket is another, but lets not go there… then theres others like Lord of the Isles, Caley Single etc… which date back to 1961 and still are the same tooling today, just with better profile wheels and motor..these reemerged during Rocket150 (1980) and GW150 (1985), and just recently.

 

11 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Come 2010ish Some of the 1980s era tender drive products got a chassis makeover to eliminate the tender drive mechanism and appeared in the ‘RailRoad’ range - but I’m not sure if the 8F was one of the models so treated.

 

8fs never been offered railroad status, though the latest one with the moulded smokebox handles gets close, even if the price does not.

The 28xx is another one where it was never offered in railroad.

 

my guess here is demand, the WD/9F geographically went much wider than the 8f. I suspect the LNER 0’s are similarly afflicted.

 

The 9f is the oddity in heavy freight, the 1978 tooling lasted until 2020, starting and ending with Evening star. It had 4 makeovers, first to separate handrails, later to better chassis/rods, other tender options, then got a loco drive makeover… 

During this time it flip flopped between railroad and main range.

 

Then bizarrely, the Crosti 9f appeared as railroad, ignoring all the above apart of the high sided railroad 9f tender… if they’d used one of the Brit superdetailed tenders they could pretty much have gone all the way.. and instead of then using the new railroad chassis on the standard railroad 9f.. they carried on as before until 2020… this left the railroad 9f as an outlier, I think the only entirely new “railroad” tooling.

 

of course Hornby produced the opus magnum new full fat 9f.

 

 

Edited April 11 by adb968008