Why are preserved railways so unpopular as layout subjects

[hayfield]

Speaking as someone interested in operations, I found it a shame that they had turned it into a double track roundy-roundy, because when I saw it (at an exhibition near Weston-Super-Mare a couple of years back) they seemed to be just letting trains circle, rather than operating it in a realistic way. Actually replicating real operations would have been much more interesting.

 

Apart from the southern end, it seemed to have a good deal of fidelity, and certainly captured the feel of the place rather well, although I know what you mean about being neither fish nor fowl. It strikes me that the pre-preservation layout at Bewdley North would be rather tricky to build with off-the-shelf track.

 

 

It depends on who the layout is aimed at plus operators available, if the timetable was adhered to how many trains/movements per day, not many I would guess. If you are looking at the casual visitor and or children then trains moving is what they want to see,

 

They are stuck between a rock and hard place especially if operators are scarce, or not model railway enthusiasts .

[PhilH]

Has anyone modelled a preserved railway in the past? To me it seems to be the last 15 to 20 years I've found a lot of them off putting.

I was involved with preservation for a long time but I find the longer established ones now have a strange atmosphere about them with s lot of volunteers there not because they are interested in railways but seem to be involved because they can dress up and lord it over the public

From experience I think this post is nonsense....but heyho.

[russ p]

It certainty isn't at one near me far to many volunteers covered in gold braid and don't know a dammed thing about railway and the operation of one

It tends not to be footplate crew but station staff and more worryingly guards

[Steamport Southport]

I've been involved with railway preservation in one way or another for nearly 35 years, and yes I've met plenty of the "Little Hitlers" over the years. Some of them would make a traffic warden blush. I can understand why an older person would like to be a station worker or ticket inspector, but I'm a bit wary of any younger man (they're always men) that wants to be in charge.

 

But that's getting off topic.

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest]

Has anyone modelled a preserved railway in the past? To me it seems to be the last 15 to 20 years I've found a lot of them off putting.

I was involved with preservation for a long time but I find the longer established ones now have a strange atmosphere about them with s lot of volunteers there not because they are interested in railways but seem to be involved because they can dress up and lord it over the public

 

From experience I think this post is nonsense....but heyho.

 

Phil, all 3 of us have real railway experience, but you're the only one viewing this as a heritage insider. Russ used to volunteer but no longer does. I never have, but live close enough to a heritage railway to witness the goings-on that Russ alludes to on a daily basis. Sadly, the "look at me, I'm important" brigade are alive and well in North Norfolk, and are doing little to help the public perception. As a railway enthusiast, I now avoid the station like the proverbial plague. Very sad but true.

[ForestPines]

It depends on who the layout is aimed at plus operators available, if the timetable was adhered to how many trains/movements per day, not many I would guess. If you are looking at the casual visitor and or children then trains moving is what they want to see,

 

They are stuck between a rock and hard place especially if operators are scarce, or not model railway enthusiasts .

I would generally have assumed that the operators of a model railway at a show would be enthusiasts!

 

It's fair to say that at the real Bewdley there are often periods with nothing moving. On the current timetables there is a 45 minute frequency between paths, with most up trains timetabled for a circa 10 minute wait at Bewdley, so you generally get 30-minute periods with nothing happening. I'm not suggesting operators at a show replicate that, though!

 

I was on the railway yesterday. Totting up how many trains passed through Bewdley: there were 5 sets in operation, three of which did two round trips and two of which did two full line round trips and two to AY and back; that's 28 trains through the station. Then you have three light engines and an ECS DMU at the start and end of the day: that takes you up to 36 in total.

[andyram]

I've been involved with railway preservation in one way or another for nearly 35 years, and yes I've met plenty of the "Little Hitlers" over the years. Some of them would make a traffic warden blush. I can understand why an older person would like to be a station worker or ticket inspector, but I'm a bit wary of any younger man (they're always men) that wants to be in charge.

 

But that's getting off topic.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

I cannot let this comment pass without a response. As a relatively "younger" member of the volunteer scene I have met plenty of fellow younger volunteers who do the job because they enjoy it. I started out as shed staff, but a broken arm, sustained whilst playing football,  meant I no longer could manage the heavy lifting. Rather than give up I chose to work as station staff, then moved onto ticket collecting because the rosters fitted in with my free time better. I do the job because I enjoy it - and want to support "my" railway. I enjoy interacting with the public - not because it gives me a feeling of importance, but because I hope I can help make their day enjoyable. In my experience some of the older members of staff resemble Little Hitlers much more. Sadly - you get them in all walks of life. Do not tarnish all younger volunteers with the same brush!

[russ p]

Cheers Pete, its not just me that feels this way I keep in touch with many ex volunteers and a few which still do ,I also socialise with members of the paid staff and they all feel the same.

Like Pete I also steer clear of it.

One very irritating thing about the place is the ridiculous rule they now have where a DMU has to sound its horn before moving even if no one is around, I'm thinking about taking issue with this with environmental health

[hayfield]

I would generally have assumed that the operators of a model railway at a show would be enthusiasts!

 

It's fair to say that at the real Bewdley there are often periods with nothing moving. On the current timetables there is a 45 minute frequency between paths, with most up trains timetabled for a circa 10 minute wait at Bewdley, so you generally get 30-minute periods with nothing happening. I'm not suggesting operators at a show replicate that, though!

 

I was on the railway yesterday. Totting up how many trains passed through Bewdley: there were 5 sets in operation, three of which did two round trips and two of which did two full line round trips and two to AY and back; that's 28 trains through the station. Then you have three light engines and an ECS DMU at the start and end of the day: that takes you up to 36 in total.

 

 

Firstly I thought the layout was not at a show but at the preserved railway, run by the volunteers 

 

Secondly at most shows (especially local ones) the paying public like to see trains moving, modellers quite often like seeing the same loco pass several times as they wish to absorb the model making, rather than see a glancing glimpse of the train go by. Or ask for the train to stop so a photo can be taken

 

Other layouts where operators are few often have a train running round a few times, whilst they prepare something else or just have a break

 

I accept that there are those who like to see everything as it was, or run in a prototypical manor.

 

The skill of the layout operator is to please all

[Steamport Southport]

I cannot let this comment pass without a response. As a relatively "younger" member of the volunteer scene I have met plenty of fellow younger volunteers who do the job because they enjoy it. I started out as shed staff, but a broken arm, sustained whilst playing football,  meant I no longer could manage the heavy lifting. Rather than give up I chose to work as station staff, then moved onto ticket collecting because the rosters fitted in with my free time better. I do the job because I enjoy it - and want to support "my" railway. I enjoy interacting with the public - not because it gives me a feeling of importance, but because I hope I can help make their day enjoyable. In my experience some of the older members of staff resemble Little Hitlers much more. Sadly - you get them in all walks of life. Do not tarnish all younger volunteers with the same brush!

 

I meant younger as in between 18 and 50 as opposed to the more usual "bloke of retirement age" that is often the station master or TTI. I started volunteering at about 13, the last thing I would want to do is put off youngsters. I had some of the best times in my life playing with trains.

 

 

But I think you know the type, more wanting to be seen as being in charge rather than doing their duty. Often rude and abrupt when somebody asks them a simple question, probably because he doesn't know the answer. You often wonder why they are even there as they don't seem to be enjoying it.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Anyway, getting back to models.

 

I think modelling preserved railways is fine as long as you try to avoid the cliches. Remember how most narrow gauge layouts were looked down upon, especially the ones that had locos and stock from different railways, gauges and even continents? Or military railway models that were just an excuse to display your Airfix kits?

 

Also get rid of the daft names, especially the ones that end in something and something Preservation Society. Calling it something like CRAPS or TRUMPS just isn't funny anymore.

 

 

 

Jason

[PhilH]

I guess I'm biased but I think that Tom E's and Chris Cleveland's layouts depicting Ropley on the MHR stand scrutiny and comparison with other fine layouts. I think that attention to detail along with good modelling will make a success of any chosen location.

[andyram]

I meant younger as in between 18 and 50 as opposed to the more usual "bloke of retirement age" that is often the station master or TTI. I started volunteering at about 13, the last thing I would want to do is put off youngsters. I had some of the best times in my life playing with trains.

 

 

But I think you know the type, more wanting to be seen as being in charge rather than doing their duty. Often rude and abrupt when somebody asks them a simple question, probably because he doesn't know the answer. You often wonder why they are even there as they don't seem to be enjoying it.

 

 

Jason

 

 

 

Hmm - my entire volunteering life puts me in that age range. I started at 18 - and I am 42 now.

[Chris M]

I can't recall anything but helpful and friendly volunteers at any preserved railway I have been to.

[hayfield]

I can't recall anything but helpful and friendly volunteers at any preserved railway I have been to.

 

Same here, always been treated exceptionally well by those on duty.

[ForestPines]

Firstly I thought the layout was not at a show but at the preserved railway, run by the volunteers 

 

This could be due to my posts not being completely clear - I've been talking about two layouts; one a small N gauge one based on Arley in the present day, the other a larger N gauge one based on Bewdley, largely in the present day.  I saw the former on display at Arley at this year's autumn gala, and the latter at a show a couple of years ago.  Both were built as double-track ovals, although with the Arley one the scene was limited enough that the loop points would have been offscene in both directions.  With the Bewdley one, the north end was reasonably accurate (albeit with trains heading off down the Tenbury siding) but the south end featured a double track tunnel mouth as the scene exit.

[hayfield]

This could be due to my posts not being completely clear - I've been talking about two layouts; one a small N gauge one based on Arley in the present day, the other a larger N gauge one based on Bewdley, largely in the present day.  I saw the former on display at Arley at this year's autumn gala, and the latter at a show a couple of years ago.  Both were built as double-track ovals, although with the Arley one the scene was limited enough that the loop points would have been offscene in both directions.  With the Bewdley one, the north end was reasonably accurate (albeit with trains heading off down the Tenbury siding) but the south end featured a double track tunnel mouth as the scene exit.

 

 

Probably me miss-reading the post as usual. I can totally accept the reasoning behind the enthusiast wanting to run their layout in a prototypical manner, I cannot argue against this on any grounds

 

However having been involved in a finescale show where the general public attended in as many numbers as the finescale modelling brigade, the show manager (of many years standing) would ask exhibitors to where possible to keep locos running, also one layout which was a fiddle yard to fiddle yard format several years later returned as an oval. When asked about the change replied, easier to operate (especially for 2 day shows), less operators required, and that the paying public seemed to prefer it. In fact a non scenic bend which was clearly visible had as many viewers as the scenic side, as a perfect place to observe (and photo) and admire the stock

[rob D2]

Hmm interesting read....

My mother volunteers at a preserved railway and you get all sorts.

 

The definition of " volunteer " I guess means, you get who wants to do it, rather than who should do it necessarily.

 

I've had experience of this in the ATC years ago, when folk who had mundane jobs with no responsibility in civvy street were given too many stripes and rank in the ATC and suddenly thought they were the commandant of the RAF.

 

Anyway I digress....back on course

Edited October 30, 2017 by rob D2

[Gunnbrikt]

Wow, what an interesting thread, I never thought that anyone who enjoyed model railway or railways in general would hate preserved railways.

 

The "modelling a memory" won't really work especially with younger modellers such as myself as we only remember identical EMU's or endless miles of container freight from our childhoods. Preserved railways are the only way we get to see steam and diesels operating at all and even these "tourist" operations are far more exciting that what I normally see now days.

 

Personally I'm planning on creating a preserved line with a station and depot/engineering workshop. Should give plenty of interesting loco only operations (no different from the many diesel/steam loco only depot layouts), maintenance freight as well as passenger operations.

 

I think as time goes on these layouts will become more popular as more railway modellers' first experiences of steam/diesel will be from a heritage line rather than from mainline railways.

[Guest]

Wow, what an interesting thread, I never thought that anyone who enjoyed model railway or railways in general would hate preserved railways.

 

I'd be very surprised if anyone here "hated" preserved railways. Personally, I'm just indifferent to them. I agree wholeheartedly with your "modelling a memory" comment. Early 70s all-over blue is as far back as I can remember. For that reason, I have no interest in steamers. I don't hate them, again - just indifference. It would take someone with far more eclectic interests than mine to like everything. If that person exists, again, I'd be very surprised. Reminds me of those folk at a show that walk past a Continental layout muttering something along the lines of "nothing to see here - it's foreign". Quite often, they're missing some spectacular modelling, but it's their choice.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Pete 75C

[whart57]

Reminds me of those folk at a show that walk past a Continental layout muttering something along the lines of "nothing to see here - it's foreign".

 

But if the guy on the next stand has mixed up the wrong shade of dark stone when painting the platform shelter on his GWR branch .........

[Chris M]

I like British steam, British diesel, European (especially Swiss) and US so I'm fairly eclectic. My current layouts are British N gauge and G scale mainly US. I have owned Spanish and Italian models in the past.  Indian, Australian, South American and African railways are also fascinating but I don't expect I will ever model them.

 

I tend to walk straight past most LNER layouts at exhibitions though.

[Happy Hippo]

The model of Bewdley is almost very good. All credit to the people who built this layout; it is unmistakably a model of Bewdley and captures the features well. I have seen it a couple of times and it is interesting to see with plenty of movement but its a shame that the station appears to be something of a mix between preserved and pre-preservation eras. This make it neither fish nor fowl for me. To be fair it was probably made this way to add interest that you couldn't have if it was just a heritage railway.

The model of Bewdley station was built and  is operated by Telford Model railway Group.

 

It is getting on in years now and my personal thoughts when I was a member of the group was it should have been withdrawn from the exhibition circuit when the group finished Stokesay Junction. (Serialised in BRM)

 

However, sentimentality has taken over and it is kept going but really needs a total rebuild rather than the temporary fixes that have been put in place to keep it running. The impression I always got was that that members were loath to dispose of it as it represented a huge amount of time and effort.

 

But as an accurate model of Bewdley it is not. A great deal of effort went into accurately modelling the streets around the station yet the track layout, especially the siding formations bear little resemblance to the real thing pre or post preservation.

[Reorte]

I'd be very surprised if anyone here "hated" preserved railways. Personally, I'm just indifferent to them. I agree wholeheartedly with your "modelling a memory" comment. Early 70s all-over blue is as far back as I can remember. For that reason, I have no interest in steamers. I don't hate them, again - just indifference. It would take someone with far more eclectic interests than mine to like everything. If that person exists, again, I'd be very surprised. Reminds me of those folk at a show that walk past a Continental layout muttering something along the lines of "nothing to see here - it's foreign". Quite often, they're missing some spectacular modelling, but it's their choice.

Well I was born in the 70s so my memories are of blue diesels and electrics, but what I'm interested in is steam. But a good model is a good model and worth a look at no matter the time and place IMO.

 

When it comes to preserved railways, well, why wouldn't you model one? I struggle to answer that really - they're a perfect excuse for running just about whatever stock you feel like, with whatever mixture of old and new you feel like, yet I have to say the idea of modelling one doesn't really hold that much appeal for some reason. I can't say why.

[Robin Brasher]

I don't think that preserved railways are unpopular as layout subjects. 16 year old James Newall has allowed me to post some pictures of his Kingbarrow Railway Centre on this site. This is a small layout which attracted a lot of attention, particularly with children, at the recent Weymouth exhibition.

 

In a small space there are a lot of details that show it is a preserved railway. There is a steam train but there are modern cars on the road. There is a museum and an old restaurant car serving as a restaurant.