Heljan 128

[dibber25]

It's the allegation of people with no knowledge re-writing history that gets to me. Ok, so railwaymen knew them differently. We aren't writing for railwaymen alone. Nor for trainspotters alone. Nor are we writing learned journals. We are writing popular press titles and there has to be a degree of generalisation which is capable of being understood by the widest possible readership. It can't be too difficult to look up Class 128 if one doesn't know what it is and it may not be a TOPS code but that is what they are known as, in the same way as my Dyson cleaner is still a 'Hoover' as far as I'm concerned. Yes, we could move away from the popular topics, towards the 'high-end' scratch-building, EM/P4 segment of the hobby but there's already a magazine which does that and the market there isn't big enough to sustain more than one. Equally, that's not a magazine which would review a ready-to-run 'OO' Heljan diesel whether you call it a Class 128, a DPU (which is a term I had not heard until comparatively recently) or a Gloucester Parcels car. Try looking for Heljan Gloucester DPU on Google. I'll be interested to know if it takes you to Hattons website, for instance.......

CHRIS LEIGH

[dibber25]

Just tried it. Doesn't. In the first eight entries, four times it inserts Class 128 between Gloucester and parcels car.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Gwiwer]

They became class 128 under the system which lead to TOPS and were referred to as such from the late 1960s by some staff as far as I am aware.  

 

these are NOT 'TOPS numbers'.  At the risk of getting extremely hoarse the standardised BR system of traction class designations predated TOPS by a good 5 years.

 

We can agree on that then!

 

 

They were more widely known as "Parcel bugs" or "Parcel units" among the platform-enders at Paddington and Reading just as the dominant passenger types were "bugs", bug-carts", "bog-carts" or "3-car" rather than "class 117" despite having gained the designation.  

 

Bear in mind those spotters were (a) speaking Spotterese and ( b  ) quite probably not from London and were applying terminology they used in their home areas.

 

 

"cars"

 

Absolutely agree.  Even the St. Ives branch train was known and referred to in my youth as the "Branch car" (usually a 2-car unit in practice, sometimes just one) with the only exception I know of and one still very occasionally referred to today as the "Marlow Donkey" and not the Marlow Car when working the Bourne End shuttle.

 

FWIW and with reference to Chris's quite valid comments Wikipedia lists all the BR numeric classifications and searching for "Class 128" in Google will lead you to here as the first reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_128

[The Stationmaster]

Just tried it. Doesn't. In the first eight entries, four times it inserts Class 128 between Gloucester and parcels car.

CHRIS LEIGH

Just for amusement I tried it on Yahoo instead of Google - first item up lists it as 'Gloucester single parcels unit', the next four all insert 'Class 128 although words vary a bit from the search term and usually refer to 'diesel parcels unit', the fifth entry says 'gloucester parcels car', the sixth includes 'Class 128' and the seventh doesn't, the 8th does too but the 9th doesn't and the 10th does.  So 70% of the first 10 were in in favour of adding 'Class 128.

 

As I have a suitable book on the subject I simply look up the dmu Class identification numbers in it - it covers all the first generation cars, with illustrations (ideal for me as in some cases I know what I think they are by original designation but it's helpful to check).

[Gwiwer]

And when all else fails there's http://www.railcar.co.uk

[dibber25]

For what it's worth, I never heard the cars referred to as parcels bugs. That's new to me. I never have and never would refer to any DMUs as 'bog carts' or anything equally derogatory, either verbally or in print. I liked DMUs way too much for that. I guess it started with my first encounters with W55021 at Staines West. There was nothing quite like that ride up over the Southern and down across the Moor with the willows slapping on the windscreen and the car rocking and swaying - and being (with my brother) the only two people on board.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Stevelewis]

For what it's worth, I never heard the cars referred to as parcels bugs. That's new to me. I never have and never would refer to any DMUs as 'bog carts' or anything equally derogatory, either verbally or in print. I liked DMUs way too much for that. I guess it started with my first encounters with W55021 at Staines West. There was nothing quite like that ride up over the Southern and down across the Moor with the willows slapping on the windscreen and the car rocking and swaying - and being (with my brother) the only two people on board.

CHRIS LEIGH

I know  exactly  how  you  feel,  In my younger  days me  and  friends  travelled extensively  on what  were  then  the 'NEW DIESELS'

Manchester-Buxton mostly,  but occasionally  LLamdudno- Bleanau Ffestiniog,  Or LLandudno-Rhyl., or Manchester- Liverpool ( Trans- Pennine)

If  we  could  afford it we  would  pay the  extra  and  go 1st Class ,  so we  could have  the splendid isolation of the  1st  class bit  at  the  fron  ( or  rear).

 

As  for calling  the  DMUs  silly  names we  wouldnt  have  dared!!

[Gwiwer]

For what it's worth, I never heard the cars referred to as parcels bugs. That's new to me. I never have and never would refer to any DMUs as 'bog carts' or anything equally derogatory, either verbally or in print. I liked DMUs way too much for that. I guess it started with my first encounters with W55021 at Staines West. There was nothing quite like that ride up over the Southern and down across the Moor with the willows slapping on the windscreen and the car rocking and swaying - and being (with my brother) the only two people on board.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

The "derogatory" references appear to originate from north of Watford Gap   

 

Staines West?  Happy memories there.  It might have been a green W55021 I was taken on to travel there from Uxbridge (Vine Street).  But unlike your good self my trip was busy.  Both parents and myself made a payload of three, some 50% more than on your trip!  I'm afraid it surprised no-one that the branches from West Drayton closed.  Even the near-parallel 224 and rail-replacement 225 buses failed to attract any significant interest and were themselves withdrawn south of West Drayton (from where I also watched the Parcel Cars come though - back on topic!) only a few years later.

[tetsudofan]

 

Anyway - to change the subject and answer a question. The Model Rail limited edition Heljan Class 128 (GlosRCW parcels car) in Red Star two-tone blue will be 55993, complete with GWR coat of arms and GWR-style lettering as applied at Tyseley. The run will be just 300 and it's 01209 613984 for advance orders. Delivery expected in the autumn 2013.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

While all this chat about what these things are called I've placed my order for one of the Red Star versions. Details are now up on the ModelRailOffers website so no need to phone.

 

Keith

[dibber25]

  

While all this chat about what these things are called I've placed my order for one of the Red Star versions. Details are now up on the ModelRailOffers website so no need to phone.

 

Keith

I think the artwork looks great - although its outside my period and era. Lots of trouble getting the light blue sorted as there doesn't seem to be an 'official' shade. All sorts tried and we think we've got it about right now, with some assistance.

CHRIS LEIGH

[pheaton]

Chris,

 

Whoops - touched a nerve there - sorry!

 

Like many others of my generation who frequent this list, I lost interest in the current railway scene when the all-pervading blue and double arrows came along. TOPS means nothing to me, I'm pleased to say. If a TOPS code is quoted I have to refer to Google to translate.

 

TOPS may have made the railway journalists' job easier, but remember which way the model market has gone in recent years. Who is buying the majority of Heljan early diesels; the Bachmann Midland Pullmans; the Hornby Brighton Belles; etc., etc. I'll tell you - the aging pre-TOPS enthusiasts who now have considerable disposable income!

 

Is it a coincidence that I, and many other modellers of my generation, have stopped purchasing the model railway press offerings; (with the honourable exception of MRJ)? The use of TOPS designations for models in pre-TOPS liveries, many of which never carried TOPS numbers, is only one symptom of the general 'dumbing-down' of the model railway press.

 

How many times do we need telling how to change the number on an item of rolling stock, or how to weather items? What is needed is some more erudite background information and some more creative modelling. I'm afraid the broadcasting industry's 'sound-bite' approach has invaded the printed press, too.

 

Now that I'm retired, I spend most evenings browsing through my extensive collection of model railway magazines, dating back to the late 50s / early 60s. I still find far more inspiration in articles that are fifty years old, and that I've read several times before, than I will ever do in what is published nowadays.

 

If the model press continues to devote itself to that section of the market that thinks railway modelling consists of, at best, inserting a DCC chip and, if really adventurous, adding sound, it'll be out of a job pretty soon!

 

I have also noticed an increasing trend for wholly fallacious statements to be made in editorials and articles, which then acquire 'factual' status. At one time I took the trouble to correct these but the frequency of such errors became insupportable.

 

My analysis is that, increasingly, the model railway press is run by career journalists from wholly unconnected backgrounds. Any knowledge of model railways would be fortunate, but by no means essential; (I except yourself from this condemnation, of course).

 

A tirade - yes; but only the manifestation of several years of frustration. I weekly visit WHS and browse, in the forlorn hope that some enlightened editor will have seen the light. No luck yet - one can only hope!

 

Respectfully,

John Isherwood.

 

Words fail me.... your actually moaning about somebody reffering to a model in tops form....

 

i should point out your post is potentially libel so id strongly reccomend editing it, your making potentially innacurate statement about journalists, no im not a journalist before you ask. 

 

"Is it a coincidence that I, and many other modellers of my generation, have stopped purchasing the model railway press offerings; (with the honourable exception of MRJ)? The use of TOPS designations for models in pre-TOPS liveries, many of which never carried TOPS numbers, is only one symptom of the general 'dumbing-down' of the model railway press."

 

and what have you got to substantiate that statement?

 

"TOPS may have made the railway journalists' job easier, but remember which way the model market has gone in recent years. Who is buying the majority of Heljan early diesels; the Bachmann Midland Pullmans; the Hornby Brighton Belles; etc., etc. I'll tell you - the aging pre-TOPS enthusiasts who now have considerable disposable income!"

 

Ummm people they appeal to? Your not very clear here.....why would i buy a pre-tops loco for my 90s layout?

 

"Now that I'm retired, I spend most evenings browsing through my extensive collection of model railway magazines, dating back to the late 50s / early 60s. I still find far more inspiration in articles that are fifty years old, and that I've read several times before, than I will ever do in what is published nowadays."

 

Ok so you moan about reading "how to change a number" over and over again but your fine about reading stuff 50 years old over and over again

 

"If the model press continues to devote itself to that section of the market that thinks railway modelling consists of, at best, inserting a DCC chip and, if really adventurous, adding sound, it'll be out of a job pretty soon!"

 

so does that make me or others lesser modellers for having DCC?

 

Its to be honest a post that makes something out of nothing it really does, i say this as i look at an 8086 or of course pre-tops thats an IBM XT

[Tase]

Yawn!

 

Mr Isherwood is entitled to his opinion as much as you are to yours! Let's just get back to what this thread and website are really about please. You don't like something then fine - everyone's different. Move on!

[the-gog]

I think the artwork looks great - although its outside my period and era. Lots of trouble getting the light blue sorted as there doesn't seem to be an 'official' shade. All sorts tried and we think we've got it about right now, with some assistance.

CHRIS LEIGH

Oh dear, yet more expense. Andrew Bannister has a very tasty shot of it arriving at Westbury loop (Shropshire) on a working back to Salop.

 

RWJ

[muddys-blues]

For what it's worth, I never heard the cars referred to as parcels bugs. That's new to me. I never have and never would refer to any DMUs as 'bog carts' or anything equally derogatory, either verbally or in print. I liked DMUs way too much for that. I guess it started with my first encounters with W55021 at Staines West. There was nothing quite like that ride up over the Southern and down across the Moor with the willows slapping on the windscreen and the car rocking and swaying - and being (with my brother) the only two people on board.

CHRIS LEIGH

Oh B*ll*cks, I had better change my layout link wording then .............

[scorpion]

love the way this argument is going, full 25 minute job

 

they were parcels bugs at Donny, where they never ran, but 55987 came here to die and was resident for a couple of years

 

and yes, this is train spotter speak, nothing official but a lot of train spotters buy models

[lyneux]

All this nonsense about whether or not to name them by their TOPS name or not (for the record, we used to call them 128s when I was a kid) has missed the vital point with the Ltd Edition:

 

It appears to be a different moulding of the later body style with plated headcode boxes, lights and the gangways removed. Finally a model appropriate for the 1980s in full TOPS Class 128 glory!

[BR(S)]

All this nonsense about whether or not to name them by their TOPS name or not (for the record, we used to call them 128s when I was a kid) has missed the vital point with the Ltd Edition:

 

It appears to be a different moulding of the later body style with plated headcode boxes, lights and the gangways removed. Finally a model appropriate for the 1980s in full TOPS Class 128 glory!

 

Yes, there's a reply above that Heljan will also be releasing this body style in blue and Royal Mail red, as a general release model.

[the penguin of doom]

I still maintain that this class 128 DPU motor parcels car bog cart DMU train is a really nice looking model.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less how you choose to refer to it, it's a smashing model!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

**edit**

 

I forgot to call it a parcels bug too.

 

**Edit of the edit to please Olddudders**

 

Gloucester too..... ;-)

[Oldddudders]

I still maintain that this class 128 DPU motor parcels car bog cart DMU train is a really nice looking model.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less how you choose to refer to it, it's a smashing model!

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

**edit**

 

I forgot to call it a parcels bug too.

And not a mention of Gloucester.............

[scorpion]

hope they do a Cravens parcels bug next

[the penguin of doom]

hope they do a Cravens parcels bug next

Surely you mean a class 129?

[giz]

hope they do a Cravens parcels bug next

I would have thought that would be easier for Bachmann to do given that they already have the chassis but it's perhaps a bit too far off mainstream for them.

[Stevelewis]

I note  Rails  Sheffield  have  reduced  their  price  on  the  Green/ White  roof  domes  to £89.50,  not  sure  about the  other  variants, .................but  is this not a bit 'early' to start reductions on a newish  release?,  An indication of poorer than expected  offtake perhaps?

[The Stationmaster]

Surely you mean a class 129?

       

[cctransuk]

I've been a railway journalist for nearly 50 years. We have four journalists on MR. We are all life-long railway enthusiasts and active model-makers. I cannot think of anyone on our competitor magazines who is not also a lifelong railway enthusiast and modeller. I think I was the first Editor to publish Steve Flint's work. Mike Wild learned his craft here in Bauer's railway section. I really have no idea who these 'career journalists with no subject knowledge or interest are.'

Chris,

 

I hadn't intended you to feel personally insulted; indeed, I expressly and honourably exempted you from my criticism.

 

I wholly accept your superior knowledge of the background of your model railway press colleagues. Clearly my surmise as to the cause of what I, and it seems others, perceive as a 'dumbing-down' of the vast majority of current railway magazines is erroneous.

 

Nonetheless, UK model railway periodicals have become extremely polarised. All bar one seem to assume that the reader is an absolute beginner; surely there is a market for a magazine aimed at more experienced modellers?

 

I'm guessing (again) that the problem may be the lack of modellers willing to contribute more detailed articles; much of the content of current magazines has the hallmark of having been produced in-house in short order to meet a deadline. This seems to be producing a generation of 'modellers' who are willing to plug in accessories, but nothing more!

 

We have interminable calls for the RTR manufacturers to produce not only every conceivable detail variant of each prototype, but specific individually numbered examples. We even now have calls for gloss versions of models that have been produced in a satin finish!

 

If 'modellers' won't even change a number, add the odd detail, or pick up a paintbrush, what's the difference between a modeller and a collector?

 

What we used to get were articles that gave background information, often on a lesser-known but fascinating subject, followed by the construction of a model. This may have been modified from a readily available base model or even, (incredibly!), largely from scratch.

 

As an example, I have just completed several ex-GWR and BR CONFLAT As, based on the easily obtainable Airfix / Dapol body moulding. I chose to use individual casings and Evergreen plastic section for the chassis, but there are numerous chassis kits that could have been used. I now have a long rake of CONFLAT As, all of which are different. I even produced a CONFLAT B for my Genesis Birds Eye containers using two of the CONFLAT A mouldings. I finished off with the second version of the CONFLAT B, (converted from the FLAT ED), which is a simple scratchbuild using plastic sheet, section and castings. Whilst at it, I produced a second model in its original FLAT ED form.

 

That, to my mind, is railway modelling. It is NOT difficult and gives one an insight into the less well known aspects of the railways in which we profess an interest.

 

OK - that's it. A rather long missive, intended to counter any impression that I was having a personal 'go' at Chris, and giving more background to my genuine concern for the future of the model railway press and, more importantly, true railway modelling itself.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.