ste234 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If my class 67 came with nameplates, I would have fitted them, but for some unknown reason it didn't It is supposed to have them, it's the Rising Star (67027) model, not all that bothered though to be honest. The weathered 22 by Mercig sounds good Dave, judging by some of their Gallery pics of models done, it would look great if you could recreate that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 Talking of run down examples, you should see the weathered sample of the 22 Mercig sent me....................wow. It's at Model Rail at the moment for photography, before it goes to China to see if they can replicate the weathering reasonably cheapy (dont get our hopes up ) Now if we can do Westerns like this class 22 then it might be worth us producing some. cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Dave if you can get the standard of the body mouldings on the 1000s up to what I saw on the D63XX at Warley then I expect you'll not even be able to keep up with demand, weathered or not BTW I don't know if you've had a chance to read the recent D63XX numbering debate on here but may we expect some changes from the catalogue listing/Kernow listing when you finalise for production? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Dapol class 52 press release. Hi everyone, please note the release below, it covers everything i think Dapol need to say on the issue. However, although there will obviously be speculation, i will not be answering anything on the situation that arose, but will of course answer any questions about the model if i can. Dave, how do you plan to do the couplings? Will the '00' Western and the other forthcoming diesels have decent proper close-coupling mounted NEM pockets (or dove-tail slots), or will the pockets be moulded into the frames or on fragile flexible links? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thank you for that Dave. Re: the names and numbers included in the box. How do you go about deciding which to include? Not having N gauge products from yourselves I don't know how they're supplied. Is it a case of pick appropriate names at random and include them or do you look for the most popular? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thank you for that Dave. Re: the names and numbers included in the box. How do you go about deciding which to include? Not having N gauge products from yourselves I don't know how they're supplied. Is it a case of pick appropriate names at random and include them or do you look for the most popular? Hi Charlie, I'd imagine the seven preserved examples would be very popular, or at least if Dave chooses some of them for the first run of releases. Dave - welcome back from your hols, I hope it was a relaxing time away from the rat race for a while! Regarding D1029 without the headboard clips, if I were in your position I'd pick another member of the class as it was a bit of an odd one in a way, as has been said it was built without the clips plus it carried two different spellings on it's nameplates. I'd go for another loco with shorter nameplates, for example Duke, Lord or Druid, as they all carried maroon / small yellow panels for a period.... just a thought. Personally I don't mind which way you go with the etched plates idea, I'll certainly do my own thing anyway as will plenty of others, but I guess you'll just have to weigh up whether or not the 'non modellers' out there will want to do the same. Difficult one I know, as the lack of printed plates on the model could put some potential buyers off. The pre- weathered idea is a good one providing it's not overdone, there were a handful of Westerns which were particularly tatty towards the end and stood out from the rest, D1022, D1054 and D1065 for instance, I'm sure these would be popular choices if you decide to go down that route. I'm very glad things are moving forward with this project and the 22 of course, this year looks like it should be a good one for Hydraulic fans B) Cheers, Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Would there be any chance one of the model magazines could come and do a feature on how a loco is lazer scanned (unless it breaches some kind of official secrets act) as I would love to see this kind of thing in action and understand how it's done mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Would there be any chance one of the model magazines could come and do a feature on how a loco is lazer scanned (unless it breaches some kind of official secrets act) as I would love to see this kind of thing in action and understand how it's done mark Model Rail did something on this when the Thumper was scanned at the Pontypool & Blaenavon a while back. IIRC Ben A of this parish was the author. Afraid I can't remember which issue it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Would there be any chance one of the model magazines could come and do a feature on how a loco is lazer scanned (unless it breaches some kind of official secrets act) as I would love to see this kind of thing in action and understand how it's done mark There has been a short feature on it in one of the mags- possibly Model Rail- a while back. It wouldn't be covered by the Official Secrets Act in this context, though firms may be wary of letting slip too many details for commercial reasons. The technique is used for various applications- a version is used to scan structure gauge on Network Rail, and someone on here has actually modelled the vehicle used ... It's also been demonstrated on 'Coast' on television, being used to show erosion rates on cliffs. It relies on beams of light (from lasers- it's an acronym) being sent from a known datum towards a point, and the time taken for it to return from the point being measured. An array of lasers is used, and the results processed by very fast computers. This is then used to build up an image. Whereas conventional measuring and drawing relies on converting a three-dimensional object into a two-dimensional drawing, which is then translated back into a three-dimensional object (which can cause errors such as spring hangers and brake shoes being in the same plane..), it should be able to use the data directly to produce a CAD, and even a three-dimensional prototype. This should be error-free..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2011 Model Rail did something on this when the Thumper was scanned at the Pontypool & Blaenavon a while back. IIRC Ben A of this parish was the author. Afraid I can't remember which issue it was. Issue 120, summer 2008 'laser quest' is the article in question. There's also a fair bit of discussion on laser scanning & transfer to 3D CAD and its limitations in the Kernow Beattie thread IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 The pre- weathered idea is a good one providing it's not overdone, there were a handful of Westerns which were particularly tatty towards the end and stood out from the rest, D1022, D1054 and D1065 for instance, I'm sure these would be popular choices if you decide to go down that route. Cheers, Nidge Without any shadow of doubt the tattiest one I ever saw was D1000 itself in its last few days in 'desert sand' - very little top coat paint left in one piece anywhere and lots of grey undercoat on show plus the 'bufferbeam' painted number partly showing through at one end (I didn't get to see the other end); it seemed that Swindon undercoat and workshop paint was a lot more durable than what went over the top of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 it should be able to use the data directly to produce a CAD, and even a three-dimensional prototype. This should be error-free..... Assuming the prototype doesn't have any errors, though, being the best part of 50 years old, it will almost certainly have the odd dent here and there... (and yes, there were a few minor alterations over the years too) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Depending which western they 'scan', as i think all preserved westerns have headboard clips and of there predicted numbers some are headboard clip less, and i think battery boxes changed over the years but not to sure how!! would be nice to see one with air vent on cab front......... Firebrand in blue or Renown for e.g. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Without any shadow of doubt the tattiest one I ever saw was D1000 itself in its last few days in 'desert sand' - very little top coat paint left in one piece anywhere and lots of grey undercoat on show plus the 'bufferbeam' painted number partly showing through at one end (I didn't get to see the other end); it seemed that Swindon undercoat and workshop paint was a lot more durable than what went over the top of it I wasn't quite thinking that far back Mike, I wasn't even an embryo then! Enterprise's yellow panels were added 5/11/62 and going by published photos, it looks as though the Desert Sand was given a spruce up at the same time, but after that it probably received very little attention externally, until it went back into Swindon in the late Summer of '64 for a complete repaint in maroon / small yellows (keeping the alloy crest as well, released back into traffic 8/10/64), which is probably around the time you saw it in such a woeful state. There's an often published photo of it in this condition sat outside the Factory at Old Oak with patch painting on the body sides, it even crops up on ebay from time to time. Since my main modelling 'time frame' has slipped back a bit to 1963/64, I'm very tempted to model Enterprise in this condition Nidge Edit : Owentherail - the size and shape of the batterybox doors clips changed in 1974, after D1007's aweful derailment at Ealing on 19/12/73 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thank you for that Dave. Re: the names and numbers included in the box. How do you go about deciding which to include? Not having N gauge products from yourselves I don't know how they're supplied. Is it a case of pick appropriate names at random and include them or do you look for the most popular? The N Gauge models done by both Dapol and Farish usually have printed numbers with the etched numbers as seperate items in the packaging for the end user/modeller to apply. Given that the Westerns have/had cast numeber plates it would probably make sence to print the number, possibly slightly undersized, with replacement etched versions included in the packaging. It would be easy enough to do the same with the nameplates. I hope the Western that gets scanned is the correct shape.... Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi guys, as i'd like to try and keep each one authentic, does anyone out there have a list of dates that the battery box conversion was carried out? We may as well do both types (and no i dont mean open and closed) (goes for hat, coat and long walk) cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi guys, as i'd like to try and keep each one authentic, does anyone out there have a list of dates that the battery box conversion was carried out? We may as well do both types (and no i dont mean open and closed) (goes for hat, coat and long walk) cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Hi Dave, I'm not sure there this a complete, definitive list but I'm off downstairs in a mo to dig out all of my Wizzo books and Adrian Curtis magazines.... the first ones were definitely done in 1974 after the Ealing accident report was published though, so you'll only need to do the modified locos in BFYE, it won't be all 74 though as several were withdrawn before this More anon! Nidge Edit : rightyho... a perusal of the relevant books means a slight correction is in order regarding the dates.... it transpires that as soon the cause of the Ealing accident had become apparent (a few days afterwards), an order went out to all WR Running Depots that the old (small) peardrop shaped batterybox door clips should be replaced with new (larger) ones of a different shape, these were formed of a 1.75" x 3/8" steel bar, 6" in length and painted yellow, pivoted above the top edge of the doors. All of the Westerns still in traffic were dealt with by the end of August 1974.... which by my reckoning means all except D1004, D1007 itself obviously, D1017, D1018, D1019, D1020, D1024, D1032, D1038, D1039, D1042 and D1060. D1000 and D1002 were both withdrawn close to New Year of '74 so whether they were actually modified is as yet unconfirmed. Time for another brew... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi guys, as i'd like to try and keep each one authentic, does anyone out there have a list of dates that the battery box conversion was carried out? We may as well do both types (and no i dont mean open and closed) (goes for hat, coat and long walk) cheers Dave Dapol Ltd Dave As Nidge has correctly pointed out post-Ealing and in response to the official report. They were recognisable by the fact they were painted yellow (pear-drop in shape), and thus the Heljan BR blues are strictly post 1974 models. Thus it maybe possible to identify the dates by photos, but Adrian Curtis's "Cast of Thousands" has a comprehensive works list with dates. Don't rule out the lack of headboard clips please ! Amongst my favourites were D1026 and D1029, have modified some Heljan's to such a state and actually it did give the loco a "cleaner" look to the front end. Many Westerns lost clips at one end due to accidental damage and David Clarke and John Jennison's "diesels in depth: Westerns" has the specific details. This is an excellent book (if you don't already have it) and should have all the details you need. I like the idea of weathered late 1970s versions, and as Nidge has said D1065 in particular was in a shocking state and instantly recognisable, but D1041 came close too. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 Further details re headboard clips D1025-D1029 built without Accident damage D1005 B end 24/7/67 D1040 A end 24/4/64 D1046 B end 25/11/71 D1049 B end 21/7/69 D1063 B end 11/11/63 D1065 A end 21/8/72 D1071 B end 9/6/67 Data from Clarke & Jennison's book - diesels in depth - Westerns Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 How do you tell the 'A' end from the 'B' end on a western, was tempted to take clips of one end of my Heljan western, dunno which end tho!! owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 Owen I think there is a small A or B under the cab roof (inside) on the loco, but you can tell on models by a small centrally located boiler roof vent (I think that's what it is) which is closer to the B end than A. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 Dave As Nidge has correctly pointed out post-Ealing and in response to the official report. They were recognisable by the fact they were painted yellow (pear-drop in shape), and thus the Heljan BR blues are strictly post 1974 models. Neil Note quite right I think Neil. The original safety catches were pear drop in shape and at some stage had been painted red to improve their visibility. As Nidge pointed out, following the Longfield derailment the red pear drop catches were replaced by rectangular section steel bar 6 inches long and painted yellow and these were provided with stops (also usually painted yellow) which prevented them being opened any further than was necessary to open the door while a stop on the door prevented them from being swung the other way. The door catches themselves were not altered as they were - and continued to be - internal and operated by carriage key from the outside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2011 Note quite right I think Neil. The original safety catches were pear drop in shape and at some stage had been painted red to improve their visibility. As Nidge pointed out, following the Longfield derailment the red pear drop catches were replaced by rectangular section steel bar 6 inches long and painted yellow and these were provided with stops (also usually painted yellow) which prevented them being opened any further than was necessary to open the door while a stop on the door prevented them from being swung the other way. The door catches themselves were not altered as they were - and continued to be - internal and operated by carriage key from the outside. Ha Mike, indeed you're right the originals were pear drop, my mistake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Owen I think there is a small A or B under the cab roof (inside) on the loco, but you can tell on models by a small centrally located boiler roof vent (I think that's what it is) which is closer to the B end than A. Neil The other way is to look for the small vertical / rectangular 'hatch' on the bodyside which is to the right of the nameplate and under the rad grilles on one side of the loco only, this is the 'B' end. It doesn't always show up in photographs, but it is there. Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The other way is to look for the small vertical / rectangular 'hatch' on the bodyside which is to the right of the nameplate and under the rad grilles on one side of the loco only, this is the 'B' end. It doesn't always show up in photographs, but it is there. Nidge It wasn't there when they were first built, neither did the RH most grille hinge; it was originally fixed like the others. I assume these changes were made to make maintainance easier. Both alterations show in this picture of Western Prince. It also shows the altered lamp bracket to take BR standard lamps instead of the side-mounted WR ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Further details re headboard clips D1025-D1029 built without Accident damage D1005 B end 24/7/67 D1040 A end 24/4/64 D1046 B end 25/11/71 D1049 B end 21/7/69 D1063 B end 11/11/63 D1065 A end 21/8/72 D1071 B end 9/6/67 Data from Clarke & Jennison's book - diesels in depth - Westerns Neil I'm betting those dates relate to when each loco was put back in traffic after the repairs were carried out at Swindon.... D1005 had a complete new cab fitted after it's 1967 collision. D1040 collided with a freight train at Knowle & Dorridge on 15/8/63 whilst working the 'stand in' set for the Birmingham Blue Pullman. D1046 had it's accident at Woodborough on the B&H line on 30/7/71 when it ran through the catch points at the end of the down loop, the A end was leading at the time and the damage was caused to the B end cab when the first wagon 'caught up with it'. D1049 had a nasty one in March '69, entering Swindon for repairs on the 20th. D1963 had a bump at Oxley Shed on 6/6/63 and spent five months at Swndon being repaired. D1071 sustained serious damage in the accident at St Annes Park, Bristol on 11/1/67 when it ran into the back of a Padd-Bristol service hauled by D1067. Also damaged in the accident was Warship D864 running past light engine, it had not long come out of Swindon after a full repaint as the first one into blue / full yellow ends. Not a good day for the Western Region. Nidge Edit : thanks for that additional info BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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