Andy Y Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 No apology necessary in my direction; it should have been offered towards those you insulted. All comments from all parties were reviewed before intervention and yours were deemed inappropriate whereas no-one personally attacked you. Still, you know best and obviously everyone else is out of step. Anyway; it gives you the opportunity* to run around the rest of the internet screaming about repression/censorship/cliques/Stalinism/Hitler blah, blah. *Like so many before who can't smell that they were the one's who had broken wind at the tea party. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromans Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 No apology necessary in my direction; it should have been offered towards those you insulted. All comments from all parties were reviewed before intervention and yours were deemed inappropriate whereas no-one personally attacked you. Still, you know best and obviously everyone else is out of step. Anyway; it gives you the opportunity* to run around the rest of the internet screaming about repression/censorship/cliques/Stalinism/Hitler blah, blah. *Like so many before who can't smell that they were the one's who had broken wind at the tea party. Nice one, you've just lowered yourself to a unknown new level of disgust, l hope you are proud, what a contradiction you are, now that you have posted this and broke all your own rules ! Please don't respond ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Please don't respond ! Only to say goodbye; don't worry, I'll shut the door after you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Any way....... back on topic now please. Hope the western will de on cover of Dapol catalogue and i look forward to doing this all over again over Dapols next model. As you can see by my gallery pics i do like westerns and thanks Dave for so mutch effort and i have pre ordered some and look forward to the ease of renaming them, owen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Expectations are running so high, I wonder if Dave can sleep at night... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2012 I'm sure he can. If it helps, I know at least three have been ordered... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Any way....... back on topic now please. Hope the western will de on cover of Dapol catalogue and i look forward to doing this all over again over Dapols next model. As you can see by my gallery pics i do like westerns and thanks Dave for so mutch effort and i have pre ordered some and look forward to the ease of renaming them, owen. Lovely pics of westerns there. It does seem the Dapol western could be sold out before even being released,pity we cant get swindon/crewe to take the huge demand. richard. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2012 Isn't it saying something that we're all talking about "how many we'll order" rather than "whether we'll order". Naturally now that metal is being cut, the discussion is turning to liveries and colour matches. I have every confidence Dapol will get the colours right, but I do hope from a personal perspective - I appreciate others may have a different view - that the colours on the "ex-works" locos have right amount of lustre. Personally I think Bachmann does this very well on its latest D800 Warships in of all three colours, whereas Dapol's own models tend to be too dull (or matt) for my taste. The other issue that would be helpful to know so I can decide which models to pre-order concerns the headboard clips and opening bodyside engine room grills. If both are present on the maroon SYP version I will pre-order that, but if not I will probably go for the FYE version and wait for the SYP until my preferred spec. comes along. No doubt DapolDave will tell us in due course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2012 Lovely pics of westerns there. It does seem the Dapol western could be sold out before even being released,pity we cant get swindon/crewe to take the huge demand. richard. Trouble is that if you got Swindon Works to do them you know they'd be at least a year late, and quite likely even later. Mind you it would make a change from knocking Bachmann and Hornby for not delivering this week models they first announced last month 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Naturally now that metal is being cut, the discussion is turning to liveries and colour matches. I have every confidence Dapol will get the colours right, but I do hope from a personal perspective - I appreciate others may have a different view - that the colours on the "ex-works" locos have right amount of lustre. Personally I think Bachmann does this very well on its latest D800 Warships in of all three colours, whereas Dapol's own models tend to be too dull (or matt) for my taste. I hope there is a bit more gloss I have no issue with the colours but from a practical point of view the the class 22 finish does tend to show up all the finger marks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2012 From a practical point of view the typical Western in service was also a bit glossier than the typical 22! Though that gloss also wore off with dramatic results at times as we have seen in images above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Lovely pics of westerns there. It does seem the Dapol western could be sold out before even being released,pity we cant get swindon/crewe to take the huge demand. richard. I apologise if this post is inappropriate, Mods, please act as appropriate if I've stepped out of line. Noting these comments, about ordering, I've seen some of the versions online on a Liverpudlian retailer... and I think one or two others too... but these seemed only to be the initial offerings, and latterly the "K" weathered versions. Given that DCC Sound has been mentioned (or is my memory playing tricks), I've been holding on - looking around trying to find something along those lines being offered... so that I could place the necessary order. But I've not found anything anywhere. Should I hold fire a bit (I suspect) or have I been missing out in my search criteria? Thanks for any advice that can be offerred. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Regarding the actual shades that Dave plumps for, I do hope they have a nice deep lustre, particularly the earlier maroon and green, as when these locos were new they really did look superb. I'd say Bachmann have got the maroon on their Warships spot on for a 4mm model that is often seen at arms length, likewise for their green 'uns too. Getting the contrast right between the main body colour and the small yellow panels and red bufferbeam areas is every bit as important as getting the overall shape bang on first time. Derek Huntiss's book 'Heyday Of The Westerns' has sometimes been criticised for having too many early shots and captions which tend to wander off on a tangent here and there, but overall these early shots illustrate very well the point I'm making above about the actual colours used by Swindon and Crewe. There will always be differences in the printing of these old images due to variations in lighting conditions, type of film used and how they were processed and printed in the first place, but if you look at the maroon locos in this book you'll notice the lovely purple tinge to some of them which sits just right alongside the maroon and in some cases chocolate and cream stock they are hauling. The very dark rendition of a brand new D1003 aside and despite the variations in printing, I'd say the green livery is very well captured here too, as D1002, D1003, D035, D1037 and D1038 all get a look in. Anyway - now that we know the all important cab roof peak and general bodyshape are going to be as good we're ever likely to get for a long time yet, the liveries will be the veritable icing on the cake B) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 There will always be differences in the printing of these old images due to variations in lighting conditions, type of film used and how they were processed and printed in the first place, but if you look at the maroon locos in this book you'll notice the lovely purple tinge to some of them which sits just right alongside the maroon and in some cases chocolate and cream stock they are hauling. The very dark rendition of a brand new D1003 aside and despite the variations in printing, I'd say the green livery is very well captured here too, as D1002, D1003, D035, D1037 and D1038 all get a look in. The correct shade of maroon is quite subjective. You are quite right about the film used having a big impact on the colour. Agfa film, especially, seems to accentuate the purple, plum tinge, while Kodachrome makes it appear much more red. Just look at D1015 in preservation. When I first saw it I thought it looked wrong, far too bright a red http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=193236&nseq=5 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=297961&nseq=1 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=278997&nseq=3 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=324429&nseq=0 Trouble is, although I know I've seen maroon Warships and Westerns I can't remember the shade as viewed by my own eyes because I was under 10 years old STEVE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2012 Having seen D1015 in preservation and a good many images of her in recent times I have always felt the shade now worn has a tad too much orange about it. I grew up alongside maroon Westerns (and Warships) and while the workaday locos were seldom so well-kept as '15 now is my recollection is of a shade just a tad closer to purple than orange. That said we have acknowledged before that memory plays tricks and photographic films degrade so who is right? I currently have several maroon Westerns of Heljan and Hornby origin and am happy with the maroon on all despite variations in shade and lustre. If you saw a line-up at Paddington no two would look the same and so it is with a selection of models released over the years by different manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) The correct shade of maroon is quite subjective. You are quite right about the film used having a big impact on the colour. Agfa film, especially, seems to accentuate the purple, plum tinge, while Kodachrome makes it appear much more red. Just look at D1015 in preservation. When I first saw it I thought it looked wrong, far too bright a red http://www.railpictu...d=193236&nseq=5 http://www.railpictu...d=297961&nseq=1 http://www.railpictu...d=278997&nseq=3 http://www.railpictu...d=324429&nseq=0 Trouble is, although I know I've seen maroon Warships and Westerns I can't remember the shade as viewed by my own eyes because I was under 10 years old STEVE Those shots show up the colour as far too 'red' (Rick's use of 'a tad too much orange' is another good way of describing it). The other day I was looking at my own (B&W) pic of a brand new D1007 outside A shop at Swindon and it reminded me just what a dark purplish red the Swindon locos carried when new - Nidge's description above captures another description of it very well in my view, it was not a pale or bright colour. In fact I reckon the moulded color of the Trix offering came pretty close, notwithstanding all its other faults (but it ran excellently). Edited March 16, 2012 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Those shots show up the colour as far too 'red' (Rick's use of 'a tad too much orange' is another good way of describing it). The other day I was looking at my own (B&W) pic of a brand new D1007 outside A shop at Swindon and it reminded me just what a dark purplish red the Swindon locos carried when new - Nidge's description above captures another description of it very well in my view, it was not a pale or bright colour. In fact I reckon the moulded color of the Trix offering came pretty close, notwithstanding all its other faults (but it ran excellently). D1015 is really that red to the eye, so any model of it in preservation condition will have to replicate it. I agree, the models of the 60's livery will need to be looked at carefully. STEVE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted March 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2012 I don't think that there is any mystery about this - the maroon Westerns were painted in standard coaching stock maroon - which is known by many and various names nowadays. The intention was that they matched their trains. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1963 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 At the risk of being shot down in flames for my unrealistic approach, I rather like my loco's in ex-works condition, bright and shiny. I know they were rarely in this state in real life, but through my rose tinted glasses, that's how I remember my first sighting, just as 1015 and 1062 are today. Maybe I should go away and base my model on the SVR. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 At the risk of being shot down in flames for my unrealistic approach, I rather like my loco's in ex-works condition, bright and shiny. I know they were rarely in this state in real life, but through my rose tinted glasses, that's how I remember my first sighting, just as 1015 and 1062 are today. Maybe I should go away and base my model on the SVR. No shooting from here. Railway modelling inevitably involves a certain amount of compromise and compression. Nothing wrong with adding idealism to that. Plenty of steam-era layouts feature shiny "chocolate box" locos so why not diesels? If you like your stock fresh from the paint shops then run them that way. It's your layout after all. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Set it in 1962 and you can have shiny Westerns and grubby Kings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Very much await the 1st production pics of this model with great expectations. richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1030western musketeer Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How a western should look although of the beaten track visiting the nene valley rly. richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2012 Compare the livery shade with D1015; this is more how I remember them as well but with a bit of road grime as well in most cases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Set it in 1962 and you can have shiny Westerns and grubby Kings. In 1960/62 I worked in W3 (Brunel Road), and from my workplace upstairs window I daily looked across Old Oak Common to the WR Main Line. At that time, Old Oak Common Shed kept all its express passenger engines in outstanding clean condition, and the WR invented any reason to paint its coaches chocolate and cream. There was a constant stream of express trains looking as they should; istr a daily Blue Pullman as well. Apologies for drifting OT, but they were salad days. PB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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