RMweb Groups

[CraigZ]

*snigger

 

DIABOLICAL!

[Kenton]

If I could, the Hellban would be the ideal but I've been so tempted to plug this one in - http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/4142-miserable-users/

Sometimes I get the feeling that it is already implemented by default rather than design. (Well you all know my impression of IPB)

 

But knowing your luck all the implementation will be in javascript and have no noticeable effect.

 

Sometimes the best policy is "not to feed" rather than encouraging with any response - but the temptation is always there to place the counterpoint on record.As for the "join group" issue, just in case it has "been resolved", I get the "can't join button" like others (Win 7, Firefox 1.4 no js) but I can wait as you deserve a rest over the weekend hopefully away from the baying crowds.

[Andy Y]

A fix has been applied to the Join Groups issue. The greyed out 'You cannot join this Group' box should now be replaced with a blue Join Group button.

[BoD]

It has been replaced. Thank you.

[Kenton]

Replaced, yes, but still doesn't work.

 

Also I just navigated from Active Contents into a Group (Standard Gauge Industrials) and navigated from there back to the Group's home page and got this:

Warning: Division by zero in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php on line 2658

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 109

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 120

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 129

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 130

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 134

oops! no HeadersSent flag in coding? basic error

 

It is reproducable.

[Coombe Barton]

Works for me - have jointed another couple of groups this morning.

[Andy Y]

but still doesn't work.

It is working but I accept your local js restrictions may affect it at your end.

Also I just navigated from Active Contents into a Group (Standard Gauge Industrials) and navigated from there back to the Group's home page and got this:

Warning: Division by zero in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php on line 2658

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 109

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 120

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 129

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 130

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/publicOutput.php:2658) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/admin/sources/classes/output/formats/html/htmlOutput.php on line 134

oops! no HeadersSent flag in coding? basic error

 

It is reproducable.

 

This error happens if no description has been entered for that Group. This was flagged up by another IPB user this morning - http://community.inv...40#entry2121621

 

I've entered a Description in the Industrial group now and the error has cleared in that area. I will draft a note to Group owners.

[Kenton]

This error happens if no description has been entered for that Group. This was flagged up by another IPB user this morning - http://community.inv...40#entry2121621

 

I've entered a Description in the Industrial group now and the error has cleared in that area. I will draft a note to Group owners.

Fine, fixed now. BTW that link requires access - and TBH I can't think of a reason for joining. Still as long as they know about it, we could presume that they may get around to fixing it. But a real school boy programming error in PHP, attempting to send headers twice! But then did I expect any different from IPB?

 

Glad you have a simple workaround though.

[Coombe Barton]

But then did I expect any different from IPB?

 

So when's your all-singing, all dancing perfectly correct and bug free affordable software becoming available?

[Kenton]

So when's your all-singing, all dancing perfectly correct and bug free affordable software becoming available?

The point was that only a real novice to php programming makes such a fundamental error. Any programmer with any experience would trap this simple(very common error) long before the code was released on the public. Not to mention the other BIG error of having a "released" system exposing errors indicating where in the code they exist (debug mode). It is a bit like walking out of the building and forgetting to turn the lights off and the burglar alarms on. Very unprofessional, as we have to remember this is not a free product.

 

Some bugs are excusable, or at least can be difficult to identify, others are just plain inexcusable and reflect never having tested a function after coding it.

 

As for "all-singing", I think that is part of their problem - they seem to be implementing and expanding the capabilities of the software without resolution of basic product faults, tagging on modules with no coherent plan. The problem with this approach is that a new module is not fully integrated and may interact with other past/future modules in unexpected ways.

[traction]

Sorry Kenton, but the software can't be that bad judging by the number of members and number of posts.

 

Unfortunately you seem to spend more time on here complaining about how rubbish it is than anybody else.

If it is that bad on here, then why constantly come on and slate it?

[The Stationmaster]

I tell you what - why doesn't someone create a 'Let's Debate what wrong with software and how to I would put it right' Group

[martin_wynne]

As for "all-singing", I think that is part of their problem - they seem to be implementing and expanding the capabilities of the software without resolution of basic product faults, tagging on modules with no coherent plan.

Hi Kenton,

 

I think you are being unfair. The "they" you are referring to is in fact one man -- Robert Syvarth.

 

The Groups feature is not by IPS, it is a 3rd party add-on. See: http://community.invisionpower.com/files/file/4226-rsyvarth-social-groups/

 

When Andy first installed it, it was still in Beta. It has still only reached first Release Candidate. See: http://demo.beyondfo...ocial%20groups/

 

In view of the complexity of the IPS software which it has to plug into, I think Robert Syvarth has done a brilliant job, and a few teething problems and bugs are only to be expected during the Beta stage -- finding them is what it's for.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Mod5]

One cannot fail to notice that in a number of threads recently we have some members who are quite willing to complain in open thread. They appear to have some knowledge and some in fact talk of their own expertise. I wonder why some have not considered sending a pm to Andy to offer positive assistance rather than negativity in thread.

 

As Martin has rightly pointed out above the software is where it is without the massive backing that some seem to think is at Andy's disposal.

 

Perhaps instead of openly carping in thread some may consider assisting if able to, after all we all would benefit from any assistance offered.

 

Just a thought.

[Kenton]

Sorry Kenton, but the software can't be that bad judging by the number of members and number of posts.

 

Unfortunately you seem to spend more time on here complaining about how rubbish it is than anybody else.

If it is that bad on here, then why constantly come on and slate it?

I was simply reporting an error to Andy - which was not of his making but the IPB provider.

An error which Andy acknowledged and fixed with a work around (I'm m sure he wanted to know of these errors which disturn the normal flow of operation of the forum.

The error in the coding - is a simple one to avoid and any programmer in php would be ashamed of making - I was reflecting that.

 

It might appear to many that I only come on here to complain about IPB and do not support the forum or contribute in other ways or on modeling matters - I leave you to judge that as your opinion.

 

As perhaps a significant contributor in terms of number posts (on this version of RMWeb and on previous versions), I don't think you will find that many are "complaining" and of them even less complaining about RMWeb as opposed to the provider of the software and its faults.

 

It is only my intention to point out issues with the software as they are seen to arise from my user perspective in the hope that they can be remedied. That might seem a little selfish to you, but I believe that there are others out there who are put off by experiencing these errors but are not as comfortable in exposing these problems.

[martin_wynne]

I was simply reporting an error to Andy - which was not of his making but the IPB provider.

Hi Kenton,

 

Just to repeat -- the Groups feature is not by IPS, it is a 3rd party add-on. See: http://community.inv...-social-groups/

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Andy Y]

In truth I obviously don't mind issues and errors being reported so that I can investigate.

 

Martin's completely correct and I think it's fair to explain the way the software is made available.

 

IPB produce the core forum, blog, gallery and content modules, the license to use the products is purchased from IPB with renewals due for its continued usage. There are other modules but they're not necessarily relevant to what we use the site for. The product does what it says on the tin but there is the capacity for add-ons to be made available or for the code to be edited by individuals. The product is complex and there are many who feel certain things that could be better but I maintain the belief that their product is the best one suited to our needs and potential aside from paying a fortune for a bespoke system. It is a commercial product but through the IPB community it is possible to engage with the team when there are any issues. It's fair to say that they do test the products well and react to address any issues.

 

Individuals can write additional plug-ins to work with the core modules and these can be marketed via IPB's main site once checked for integrity. Those individuals can give the material away or, as is more common now, for charges to be made either for purchase and/or continued use. The charges are reasonable and the Groups software add-on cost $49. Considering the cost the writer has listened more and reacted faster to his target customers than a major software publisher would do. Issues may arise when using such products in practice and it's a measure of the writer as to how he responds if something's not quite right.

 

I certainly do not profess to have any real scripting knowledge but I do like to try and see how a product can be utilised and I have to say that I'm happy with what I get for the money; even if it does mean some time and effort to get to the end point.

[Guest jonte]

It might appear to many that I only come on here to complain about IPB and do not support the forum or contribute in other ways or on modeling matters.........

 

 

I can certainly vouch for that. As a newby, Kenton has promptly and readily come to my aid when the air in the Jonte railway room has turned blue!!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

[Andy Y]

It might appear to many that I only come on here to complain about IPB and do not support the forum or contribute in other ways or on modeling matters - I leave you to judge that as your opinion.

 

I'd also like to pick up on this comment without wishing to embarrass Kenton or anyone else by naming them and say that he, along with several others, who may on the surface appear to show criticism of developments on the site are also people who actually care an awful lot about the site and have, behind the scenes, positively contributed in many, many ways.

 

Sometimes there's a lot more goes on behind the scenes than most readers will realise.

 

 

 

[rsyvarth]

Fine, fixed now. BTW that link requires access - and TBH I can't think of a reason for joining. Still as long as they know about it, we could presume that they may get around to fixing it. But a real school boy programming error in PHP, attempting to send headers twice! But then did I expect any different from IPB?

 

Glad you have a simple workaround though.

 

Hey, just so you know, it isn't the "novice" issue you are talking about. The error headers twice is merely a side effect of php errors being thrown after the output has started... the real error is actually an issue with data caches being loaded incorrectly. As other people have stated, the app is written entirely by me, not IPS, so you can go ahead and take out your rage on me if you wish. I know there are issues, but I do my best, I don't have an entire software development team behind me so I have to deal with what I have.

 

I am sorry that I have disappointed you so much with my work.

[Mike Bellamy]

Hey, just so you know, it isn't the "novice" issue you are talking about. The error headers twice is merely a side effect of php errors being thrown after the output has started... the real error is actually an issue with data caches being loaded incorrectly. As other people have stated, the app is written entirely by me, not IPS, so you can go ahead and take out your rage on me if you wish. I know there are issues, but I do my best, I don't have an entire software development team behind me so I have to deal with what I have.

 

I am sorry that I have disappointed you so much with my work.

Hi Robert and welcome aboard

 

I am simply a user of some parts of the forum and have no idea what goes on in the background but if you are one of the guys that makes it happen then you have my thanks

 

I am certainly not disappointed with your work and feel that some of the comments over the past couple of pages have been unfair to both you and Andy. I think that one of the issues is that one of our 12,000 members does not use Java

 

Mike

[Xerces Fobe2]

I'd also like to pick up on this comment without wishing to embarrass Kenton or anyone else by naming them and say that he, along with several others, who may on the surface appear to show criticism of developments on the site are also people who actually care an awful lot about the site and have, behind the scenes, positively contributed in many, many ways.

 

Sometimes there's a lot more goes on behind the scenes than most readers will realise.

 

I think it is worth remembering that Andy and his team spend many hours providing what in the premier Model Railway Forum in the UK ( maybe the world!) at no cost to us. Not contented with doing this, Andy is always looking at ways to improve the RMweb by added a new features and additional functionality.

 

Working in IT I have never experienced a change project which has not encountered some issues that were not foreseen, which can result in service degradation and/or downtime both planned and unplanned. Change always introduces some risk with it and that is how we all learn and improve things.

 

As users of the forum we have computers that are of various ages and capabilities, configured in infinite ways and running a variety of operating systems! Then there are other, issues such as the IE9, which currently can cause a lot of frustration. Anyone that could manage such a diverse environment without any issues would be become very rich very quickly.

 

So in summary, please do not bite the hand that freely feeds us and consider where we would all be if Andy decided he had enough of the unconstructive criticism and throw the towel in!

 

Xerces Fobe

 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Hey, just so you know, it isn't the "novice" issue you are talking about. The error headers twice is merely a side effect of php errors being thrown after the output has started... the real error is actually an issue with data caches being loaded incorrectly. As other people have stated, the app is written entirely by me, not IPS, so you can go ahead and take out your rage on me if you wish. I know there are issues, but I do my best, I don't have an entire software development team behind me so I have to deal with what I have.

 

I am sorry that I have disappointed you so much with my work.

Disappointed? DISAPPOINTED? Absolutely not! I am in no way an IT person - but did once find myself as Project Director for a rather large new IT system - or, at least, over 1 million lines of code seemed a lot to me. The in-house supplier had a history of doing his own UAT (User Acceptance Testing) which the in-house customer seldom got any sort of handle upon, so I set up a full test team, with a manager, several analysts, and front-line users from the customer. This worked well in finding 1000s of bugs in each release - but it cost a fortune! Here we have a FREE site which offers us a very fine system, with new apps like yours adding futher value, enabling many of us to happily waste our days here. Every so often Andy passes the hat round - with tempting inducements! - and we secure the viability for another period. Thanks for adding your bit - and keep with us. We need your apps more than you need us as an individual customer!

[Kenton]

Sometimes there's a lot more goes on behind the scenes than most readers will realise.

Most of which is time and considerable effort given freely by Andy and his team, in keeping this site alive and attempting to improve RMWeb for the benefit of us all. Over 5 years, is a long time for such a personal commitment. Sometimes it is difficult to fully appreciate the efforts as a mere user even one who has experience of operating small IT projects and lowish (by comparison) visitor statistics.

 

Sometimes my contributions on here, perhaps could be better handled more directly by email and PM - rather than upsetting the wider RMWeb readership with what appears to be self-centered whinging, but generally I would rather enter into an open debate than operating behind the scenes. I ask you all to forgive me a little as I can only comment on the way I see things and based on my experiences. If that means that something appears to be mis functioning I feel the need to bring it to the attention of others so that the site continues to move forward and improve. I would expect no less from every RMWeb member. I have never been accused of being the type of person who lays back accepts things as they are and does nothing.

 

So once again, sorry if I have upset so many and thanks to others for the support received.

 

Hey, just so you know, it isn't the "novice" issue you are talking about.

rather than get too technical and personal on thread - responded to by PM

[Stubby47]

Kenton,

 

To quote George Bernard Shaw :

 

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

 

More power to your keyboard !

 

Stu