Judith Edge kits

[Michael Edge]

Yes they were, price is now £56 + £4 postage.

[RectoryLane]

On 24/12/2022 at 19:32, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

ISTR, when discussing the Avonside jig, Derek had worldwide contacts from his days of gainful employment.

 

Mike.

Mike

 

You may have noticed this but might answer your prayers!  
 

https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk

 

I’m in for an LSWR C14!

 

Best wishes 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

The LSW C14 production etch is now on order from PPD, hope to have this ready for Scaleforum in September.

Meanwhile we are at Railex this coming weekend and at the GOG show in Barnsley the following Saturday.

[Michael Edge]

The Ruston 165DE PWM650 which was stolen from our stand at the Manchester exhibition in 2013 has just turned up on Ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235073911702?hash=item36bb7f3b96:g:U1cAAOSw6W9knqCV&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLjojMVVYc%2FdfB2XVVaTPJxHEGBmEAFUeei6e%2FUoRzLtV9cQ2jIOkrXMFxWGm2tNGyNkevh0j12wa3pwJnvcTMASM3i9wNaBobtRV7QCW620b6C%2Fz%2FaFqzUf8gqfmy3bDulmoW5Dhse6zjClsWpgQTwWcQnO76%2FMdJIisdenPzvQZF60tLVQi1v8FsRU0%2FZOFlxokPUD5aoPp5F8agtcLClvcSvCg6oLSB64gWdtVQJrHHiZR2u5pEaWVDYDOS2%2FxQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9STkZak

Does anyone know what we should do about this? It's clearly my model, identifiable by slight faults in the lettering.

[polybear]

11 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

The Ruston 165DE PWM650 which was stolen from our stand at the Manchester exhibition in 2013 has just turned up on Ebay.

ww.ebay.co.uk/itm/235073911702?hash=item36bb7f3b96:g:U1cAAOSw6W9knqCV&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwLjojMVVYc%2FdfB2XVVaTPJxHEGBmEAFUeei6e%2FUoRzLtV9cQ2jIOkrXMFxWGm2tNGyNkevh0j12wa3pwJnvcTMASM3i9wNaBobtRV7QCW620b6C%2Fz%2FaFqzUf8gqfmy3bDulmoW5Dhse6zjClsWpgQTwWcQnO76%2FMdJIisdenPzvQZF60tLVQi1v8FsRU0%2FZOFlxokPUD5aoPp5F8agtcLClvcSvCg6oLSB64gWdtVQJrHHiZR2u5pEaWVDYDOS2%2FxQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9STkZak

Does anyone know what we should do about this? It's clearly my model, identifiable by slight faults in the lettering.

 

I'd message the seller (without letting on) and enquire as to the history and see what the response is - he seems to be a business seller with good feedback, so perhaps he received it unwittingly; he might be able/willing to tell you where/who from.

I can't see the Police being of any use whatsoever.

[Keith Turbutt]

The seller is a dealer and probably bought it in good faith from the thief or one of his relatives.

I would contact him and explain the situation and ask him to withdraw it from sale while the matter is resolved.

Although it is of relatively small value I would nevertheless contact the police for advice.

They may want to know if the original theft was reported at the time.

It may also help if you have photographic evidence of the model enabling it to be identified.

Hope that is of help and good luck in retrieving it.

 

Keith 

[polybear]

6 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

The seller is a dealer and probably bought it in good faith from the thief or one of his relatives.

 

 

Or it may have already changed hands one or more times before the Dealer received it.

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, Keith Turbutt said:

The seller is a dealer and probably bought it in good faith from the thief or one of his relatives.

I would contact him and explain the situation and ask him to withdraw it from sale while the matter is resolved.

Although it is of relatively small value I would nevertheless contact the police for advice.

They may want to know if the original theft was reported at the time.

It may also help if you have photographic evidence of the model enabling it to be identified.

Hope that is of help and good luck in retrieving it.

 

Keith 

We didn't report it at the time - just wrote it off - but my photos clearly show the same slight faults in the lettering, a bit missing from the 6 and a slightly wonky W on the LH side.

[Keith Turbutt]

2 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

We didn't report it at the time - just wrote it off - but my photos clearly show the same slight faults in the lettering, a bit missing from the 6 and a slightly wonky W on the LH side.

I think you are on weak ground if it was not reported at the time - presumably the exhibition organisers have no record of the theft either.

Then I would suggest that you explain the situation to the dealer and if the model has some sentimental value to you and you would like it returned it might be worth offering to reimburse the seller for what he paid for it ( it's currently listed for only £25 + postage) and appeal to his better nature.

At least that way he will not be out of pocket.

Either way you have 5 days to decide before the auction closes 

 

Keith 

 

[Buhar]

The fact it wasn't reported makes no difference to ownership of the model.  Mike mentioned the theft on here, so that is evidence of ownership and loss.  But that was 10 years ago and so it's quite likely it's been through more than one hand before coming to the current seller.  It's unfortunate for them, but they have no claim on it and if all goes properly they should lose what they paid for it.  There's probably no value in seeking to establish how they got it and from whom, although the seller might want to make a mental note to protect themselves in future. 

 

I suggest to inform them (and eBay) as soon as possible and ask how the matter can be resolved.  If they respond sensibly, you paying postage would seem reasonable.

 

Alan

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

We didn't report it at the time - just wrote it off - but my photos clearly show the same slight faults in the lettering, a bit missing from the 6 and a slightly wonky W on the LH side.

 

Not to mention the fact that, like your display models, it's unpowered!

 

Mike.

[Michael Edge]

23 minutes ago, Buhar said:

The fact it wasn't reported makes no difference to ownership of the model.  Mike mentioned the theft on here, so that is evidence of ownership and loss.  But that was 10 years ago and so it's quite likely it's been through more than one hand before coming to the current seller.  It's unfortunate for them, but they have no claim on it and if all goes properly they should lose what they paid for it.  There's probably no value in seeking to establish how they got it and from whom, although the seller might want to make a mental note to protect themselves in future. 

 

I suggest to inform them (and eBay) as soon as possible and ask how the matter can be resolved.  If they respond sensibly, you paying postage would seem reasonable.

 

Alan

Thanks for that, sounds sensible.

[Bucoops]

Is it also the one used for the box photo? Would add to the "proof" that it was your one.

[Michael Edge]

It’s not our box, we don’t put photos on them, and it’s not my photo. The loco was taken straight out of our display case.

[heavymetalwagons]

if you at least contact the seller and explain the issue, he'll  be at least weary of buying from said person again !

[Barry O]

Has it got one of your build plates hidden inside??

 

Baz

[MJI]

Tell the seller it was stolen, and if needed offer the postage.

[Captain Kernow]

I thought that if someone bought (in good faith) something that was originally stolen, then that purchaser doesn't actually have title to the item, should the original owner (from whom it was stolen) be identified?

 

[meil]

12 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I thought that if someone bought (in good faith) something that was originally stolen, then that purchaser doesn't actually have title to the item, should the original owner (from whom it was stolen) be identified?

 

You cannot give good title if you don't have it in the first place - which a thief doesn't have. So the locomotive still belongs to Michael Edge. Proving it (as always in law) is a different matter. The Police won't be interested. You could sue the present seller if you have the time or patience.

 

The exception to that is if the item was sold at a "Market Overt" in which case good title can pass. There are very few "Market Overt" about.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by meil

[Michael Edge]

I've contacted the seller as suggested but reporting it to Ebay isn't so easy. To send a report I have to choose from these four categories:

Copyright and trademark

Listing practices

Price gouging

Prohibited and restricted items

 

None of these would appear to apply to stolen goods - any advice on this? I don't use Ebay much myself although I do have an account.

 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Michael Edge said:

I've contacted the seller as suggested but reporting it to Ebay isn't so easy. To send a report I have to choose from these four categories:

Copyright and trademark

Listing practices

Price gouging

Prohibited and restricted items

 

None of these would appear to apply to stolen goods - any advice on this? I don't use Ebay much myself although I do have an account.

 

 

I would imagine that stolen property is prohibited!

 

CJI.

[Michael Edge]

I would certainly hope so but I'm not sure that's what they mean - more likely to refer to weapons and dangerous materials.

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I would certainly hope so but I'm not sure that's what they mean - more likely to refer to weapons and dangerous materials.

 

Just choose the one most likely to get their attention quickest - you should be able to explain the exact situation in a comments box at the next stage.

 

CJI.

[Michael Edge]

Got through that and eventually arrived at "stolen property" as an allowable category, however the last box which has to be ticked on the report form says "By submitting this email I certify that I am a law enforcement official" - so what on earth does that mean?

[Michael Edge]

Well, that didn't get me very far, correspondence (in reverse order) with the seller below:

New message from: seangler12 (4,614)

Hi I have spoken with the auction house and they tell me the vendor of this item is a trusted seller. As it is 10 years since yours was stolen it could have moved around quite a lot. Again I am sorry for the loss of your item but I cannot do anything more. Mike

Reply

Your previous message

I presume that you didn't pay very much for it, I would be willing to pay whatever you paid for it and postage back to me if you withdraw it from sale. In law it remains my property regardless of how you acquired it but I don't want to start a war over it. I would very much like it back though.

seangler12:

Hi, I am sorry about your loss but I bought this from an auction house in Preston on 28th June. I have attached 2 photo's of the box of loco's I purchased. Mike

Your previous message

Although I am willing to believe that you bought this loco in good faith I have to inform you that it was stolen from our stand (Judith Edge kits) at the Manchester exhibition in 2013. I am certain this is my model, my own photographs attached below show exactly the same slight faults in the lettering and numbers on the cab sides. The loco has Romford wheels to 00 gauge and was never powered as it was intended to run in a train on my own layout.
I'm sure you will understand that I would very much like to get this back.
Michael Edge

 

What's the opinion on his last assertion?