Pennine MC Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 . Without the CK or a BCK its not possible to produce even a basic prototypical 2 coach set using the Hornby range. Does seem faintly ironic doesnt it, that for years we only ever got a BSK + CK in any given range Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No leaks yet either........................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No leaks yet either........................ Yeah. Wolverton were pretty good with renewing tired roofing materials on the coaching stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah. Wolverton were pretty good with renewing tired roofing materials on the coaching stock Ah - you spotted the clever (IMHO) double-entende connection with post #355..................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The LMS and later BR(M) had a thing for composites over all first vehicles. Its all well and good saying theres the FK available but the average LMS/BR(M) train ran with composites providing the majority of first class accomodation. Without the CK or a BCK its not possible to produce even a basic prototypical 2 coach set using the Hornby range. Thankfully, the Portholes will partially plug that gap with a CK forthcoming, and with a little work the Bachmann (ex-Mainline) panelled coaches you mention can be made into something that can plug a few more gaps. From memory the ex-Mainline BTK is a D1696 of 1926 and the CK is a D1694 of 1924, if they're not those I don't think I'm too far out. I think a large number of the BTKs were converted into full brakes at some point though so they weren't all that common after a certain period, following WW2 I believe. No doubt Coach will be able to shed a more accurate light on the subject. Thankyou. Now I can concentrate on other shortcominngs in my pictures. <g> Such as whether or not an S&DJR 2P might ever have hauled six-total+ 4-wheel van of about 220 tons gross with such elan. Nice to think that CKs and BTKs are or were the essence of many LMS-era trains, too. Given the not-very rapid sales of the Hornby LMS Period III coaches I would be surprised if their range of coaches was expanded in the forseeable. Then again... how hard would it be to make a composite? Also, and forgive my ignorance, I understand that some LMS Period III carriages had longer wheelbases? Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hopefully, Bachmann will capitalise on Hornby's torpor here and produce a Stanier Compo. Perhaps 12-wheel bun trucks and beds too! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 .... 12-wheel bun trucks and beds too! Dave. Am I right in thinking I remember seeing the odd 12 wheeler in otherwise mk1 sleeper sets in blue/grey at Glasgow Central in the early/mid 70s? Angus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Given the not-very rapid sales of the Hornby LMS Period III coaches I would be surprised if their range of coaches was expanded in the forseeable. This I think is the rod they made for their own back. The price at which the Staniers were initially released pushed them towards the sort of people who would buy them for what they are, and would want to run them in reasonably prototypical fashion, the lack of a CK in the range then probably put off a percentage of the target consumer base which resulted in slow sales. From Hornbys viewpoint these slow selling coaches obviously weren't worth expanding on so the range remains as we see it now...incomplete. How different things could have been had they done one of the CK diagrams is open to conjecture, but the proof now should be how well (or not) the Bachmann Portholes sell being as they've announced their intention of doing the full complement of all 6 Porthole diagrams. I know I'll be wanting half a dozen of the CKs simply to justify the Hornby BTKs I bought, plus any more I'll be wanting to run with the other Portholes. Then again... how hard would it be to make a composite? Also, and forgive my ignorance, I understand that some LMS Period III carriages had longer wheelbases?Rob Each chassis length most likely requires its own tooling, although there are a lot of common components, and the LMS had several lengths! 57' and 60' covered the bulk of them, but 50', 62' and 65' examples existed, plus the 12 wheelers on 68' and 69' chassis. If you're going to limit yourself to manufacturing two chassis lengths, which way do you go? 50' and 57' as Hornby did and lose out on the backbone of the LMS coaching fleet, or 57' and 60' and miss out one of the most common NPCS around...but Bachmann have had in their range for donkeys years (albeit of ancient Mainline heritage). To do Stanier stock justice in RTR you need to commit yourself to at least three chassis and even then you're going to be skipping out on the catering vehicles, and as much as I wish they'd do it, I think its a bit too much of a commitment. They only did Staniers in one chassis length in N Gauge; 57'... Ooh! theres something to bring this kind of back on topic...60' Staniers in the Farish range this year would be handy, when I emailed them about the lack of a CK in the range when they were first done the response was that the tooling could potentially be adjusted at a later date to produce other diagrams. I can but hope! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The 12 wheel sleeper thirds were certainly still in service until 1975-76, Angus and in the new livery too. Jenkinson and Essery's 'LMS Coaches, an illustrated history' offers this gen on page 73. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Regarding flush glazing for the (I assume) Bachmann LMS Period II coaches - Southeast Finecast have a huge range of glazing for what seems to me to be just about every legacy coach there ever was (inluding the ex Airfix Suburbans). Unlike Shawplan these seem to be vacformed - probably date back a few years. The Bachmann legacy coaches suffer from poor underframes which can be improved by adding components from Comet Models. As to accuracy, I really couldn't say. I am quite dubious about the yellow lines and rather think they should be fully lined out. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ... As to accuracy, I really couldn't say. I am quite dubious about the yellow lines and rather think they should be fully lined out. John Ah, thankyou, now that you mention it, fully lined would look more LMS. On the other hand, when you look at photos of the day, the main horizontal lining on the carriage sides was thicker than the panel lining, and in some photos the grime renders the panel lining almost invisible. The book 'LMS 150' by Patrick Whitehouse and David St John Thomas published by D&C and available I think from Amazon, shows several examples of this. (pp 80, 91, 100) I suspect good panel lining would be very tricky to do, too. It could look very impressive though. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The 12 wheel sleeper thirds were certainly still in service until 1975-76, Angus and in the new livery too. Jenkinson and Essery's 'LMS Coaches, an illustrated history' offers this gen on page 73. Dave. The Manchester/Euston sleeper of the early 70's certainly had ex LMS sleepers in the formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thankyou. Now I can concentrate on other shortcominngs in my pictures. <g> Such as whether or not an S&DJR 2P might ever have hauled six-total+ 4-wheel van of about 220 tons gross with such elan. Nice to think that CKs and BTKs are or were the essence of many LMS-era trains, too. Given the not-very rapid sales of the Hornby LMS Period III coaches I would be surprised if their range of coaches was expanded in the forseeable. Then again... how hard would it be to make a composite? Also, and forgive my ignorance, I understand that some LMS Period III carriages had longer wheelbases? Rob Hi Rob Of course there is a prototype for everything! Peter Smith in Mendips Enginemen quotes the Sat 9.03 from Templecombe to Bournemouth - 4 revenue earning coaches, 4 empty stock and sometimes a couple of milk tanks for Bailey Gate too. Whilst the latter were dropped off before any serious hills were encountered that still left 8 coaches for Corfe Mullen bank (1 in 80 from a 25mph token change) and the steeper and longer Parkstone bank - with a stop half way up. And S&D men did most definitely not like to take a Southern Bamker....! So 6 coaches? no problem! Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 A range of Staniers doesn't have to include a 12-wheel diner as the majority of corridor trains didn't have them. Even less call for sleeping cars. After a corridor brake third, an all-third and a composite, the next useful coach is a brake composite. The latter were useful for dropping off at junctions to complete their run down a branchline. Also useful in one coach trains. Then there are the much neglected open coaches used for excursions. The open coaches with 2 + 1 seating were more at home in express trains with dining facilities. The Bachmann Period 1 coaches are a D1696 brake third and a D1694 composite. They brush up quite well except for the thick window frames. The one below was a guinea pigs that I repainted before giving it away..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'll accept your logic about the twelve wheelers Larry. I was just thinking of excuses to keep me away from building my Comet jobs! Still, I do need to build a few! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted February 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2012 They brush up quite well except for the thick window frames. A suitable candidate for the Shawplan Laserglaze products, methinks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Horrocks Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I wonder about an original condition Merchant Navy and more of the loco's found on the Bluebell Railway. Reasoning? Bachmann's most recent collectors magazine had a big article about Merchant Navies although the only model they mentioned was their Graham Farish one. As for the Bluebell theory, I was talking to a stall-holder at Horsted Keynes one collector's weekend who said he had been around when Bachmann came to measure Earl of Berkeley and the C class. He said they'd taken a few measurements of other locos while they were there. I cannot remember exactly what he said, but I think he mentioned the Q, P and H, all of which would fill significant gaps in the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bachmann's most recent collectors magazine had a big article about Merchant Navies although the only model they mentioned was their Graham Farish one. I can think of several other loco profiles in their mag which only refer to an N gauge product, e.g. the 33 which there would be very little chance or reason of in OO. Also 'they' do take lots of photos, look at lots of drawings and even measure lots of things which will never see light of day for one reason or another. I did happen to catch a significant person crawl out from behind a loco once only to say "We're not doing one! I just love these and I remember this loco running past where I live" even before I could give a quizzical look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The adverts have started to appear in the 'States by Bachmann for the B&O EM1 2-8-8-4 (the last steam class comissioned by the B&O). What a superb first class model! What I took to be a photo-comparison of the prototype was in fact another model. Six different variants will be available. The cost: $465.00 msrp. No doubt it will sell out. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bachmann B&O EM1 2-8-8-4 (the last steam class comissioned by the B&O). Nice! An unusual subject for Bachmann Spectrum and a nice departure from On30 for a while. I think it shows a lot of commitment to the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I wonder about an original condition Merchant Navy and more of the loco's found on the Bluebell Railway. An as-built Merchant Navy would please a lot of people. It's been a while since Bachmann Branchline released a Pacific locomotive. (They certainly have them - A4, Peppercorn A1, A2 etc, but they haven't done a new one in a while.) As to more Bluebell locomotives - that's certainly a very plausible idea. Unless it's time to look somewhere else, like the Severn Valley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSutt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 An as-built Merchant Navy would please a lot of people. It's been a while since Bachmann Branchline released a Pacific locomotive. (They certainly have them - A4, Peppercorn A1, A2 etc, but they haven't done a new one in a while.) As to more Bluebell locomotives - that's certainly a very plausible idea. Unless it's time to look somewhere else, like the Severn Valley. May I second an original MN in wartime black and post war malachite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ...As for the Bluebell theory, I was talking to a stall-holder at Horsted Keynes one collector's weekend who said he had been around when Bachmann came to measure Earl of Berkeley and the C class. He said they'd taken a few measurements of other locos while they were there. I cannot remember exactly what he said, but I think he mentioned the Q, P and H,... Assuming the info to be reliable and accurate, 'taking a few measurements' doesnt really translate to ' a model is on the way'. It could just be part of an early feasibility study, into what might be involved - ever looked at your furniture, measured up parts of your house, then decided it wouldnt fit and left it be? Must say I'm bemused by the continual mentions of an unrebuilt sorry, original MN. Is it just longingly wanting a gap filled, because I cant see the logic at all. They dont have any sort of chassis or other existing bits available (AFAIK), whereas Hornby do, and could easily pip them if they wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hi Rob Of course there is a prototype for everything! Peter Smith in Mendips Enginemen quotes the Sat 9.03 from Templecombe to Bournemouth - 4 revenue earning coaches, 4 empty stock and sometimes a couple of milk tanks for Bailey Gate too. Whilst the latter were dropped off before any serious hills were encountered that still left 8 coaches for Corfe Mullen bank (1 in 80 from a 25mph token change) and the steeper and longer Parkstone bank - with a stop half way up. And S&D men did most definitely not like to take a Southern Bamker....! So 6 coaches? no problem! Cheers Phil Ah! I do enjoy an excuse to be un-representative in my modelling. Well, at least extend the limits of what was normal. In film taken in the 1959-61 summers nearly every passenger train through Radstock was double headed. From memory there was one train with a single 9F, and another with a single Fowler 7F, the latter looking quite comfortable with the crew relaxed as if they had caught up with the train ahead of them! The only southern Region engines were unrebuilt Bulleids, unless you count Soutern-shedded Standards. I may have got that slightly wrong, but that's as I recall the film. Presumably banking was elsewhere in those circumstances. Right now I am working on a picture of a Bachmann Fowler 3F piloting a Patriot in LMS days, in the great tradition of Midland double-heading. (Two outstanding recent Bachmann models... to return to the thread subject) I have them on the fast line on a four-track main line, apparently stopped by signals and re-starting. Or maybe some other combination of unlikely events. They have at least nine Staniers behind them before mist of fog impedes the view... Rob typo edit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 An as-built Merchant Navy would please a lot of people. It's been a while since Bachmann Branchline released a Pacific locomotive. The A2 was announced 2008, came in 2011. They may yet have another in the pipeline, but a Merchant Navy? It would literally take Hornby just the bodyshell of loco and tender as a major component to tool up, as the valve gear could share some components with the Hornby Battle of Britain Bulleids, and they already have both the tender and locomotive chassis and assorted components. I could see it being a decent enough seller because of the attractive sheer bulk of an airsmoothed Merchant Navy, and the fact you can justify them in the immediate post war and early 50s period, but it doesn't stand to reason that Bachmann will do one. (They certainly have them - A4, Peppercorn A1, A2 etc, but they haven't done a new one in a while.) I know the Bachmann A4 has been warmed over this year, but what Pacifics haven't been done yet that would fit into Bachmann's stable? Only the Thompson Pacifics stand out bar the Merchant Navy engines, and it's arguable that only the A2/3 stands any chance of being made RTR. As to more Bluebell locomotives - that's certainly a very plausible idea. Unless it's time to look somewhere else, like the Severn Valley. Although I was initially thrown by the front cover that never was (!!!) I still think a Billinton E4 or a Terrier would make a lot of sense as an attractive passenger locomotive, and one which also has a variety of liveries and a following due in no small part to its home on the Bluebell railway. They both fit in with the C Class and Dukedog too as a by-product of being Bluebell Railway based. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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