Bachmann Class 40 32-475DC and 32-480DS

[Pannier Tank]

Thanks David, yes, I'll be doing that. It will be insulating tape though rather than desolder and insulate the wire further. So far so good on test so looking forward to getting on the new layout.

Best wishes.

Insulating tape should be fine,  

[paul 27]

Just received D369 motor is very noisey, oiled it and ran it in still the same, compared with D211 which is really quiet.

[Market65]

Just received D369 motor is very noisey, oiled it and ran it in still the same, compared with D211 which is really quiet.

Hi paul 27, i've a total of four class 40's, and the motors are quite variable noise wise. I think it is possibly a result of mass production. The other thing could be the gear towers are a bit tight - I have had to ease a couple of mine. Hope you get your forty running better with maybe several hours of running-in.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[Market65]

Hi, again. I've been working on that model of D285, which I posted a photo of earlier on. It's the bogie mechanical lubricators, which I have built up out of plasticard and 0.4 brass rod. The next thing will be the fitting of the 50A shed plates at the number one end. Then there is the weathering, as previously mentioned.

 

All the best

 

Market65.

[NERBOB]

Just received D369 motor is very noisey, oiled it and ran it in still the same, compared with D211 which is really quiet.

Paul, I used "Servisol Silicone Grease" and packed it well into the gearbox (through the aperture) and turned the drive by hand with the cardan shaft rotating slowly in the direction that takes the grease in naturally. Also I put grease in the universal joint at the motor end of the cardan shaft. Tidy up any trace of grease on the outsides with a cotton bud/clean cloth on cocktail stick. I left it overnight at cool room temperature (in the workshop), and next morning ran her, with a bit of anxiety!, but she was like a different beast altogether. Now running very smoothly and quiet. I did suspect that the gears might not even have been greased as there were no "tell-tale" signs when I thought about it afterwards. Good Luck with it. Persevere and I'm sure you'll get there. If you have any difficulties obtaining the grease let me know and I'll send you some.

Robert

[paul 27]

Thanks Robert,  means stripping it down then,  have some Moly Grease Molybdenum, or is this not conductive.

[NERBOB]

Paul, don't use "conductive" grease! This might get into the wrong places and cause shorts or other problems. I believe (although I've not used it since car tinkering days) molybdenum does have fine particles in it and I don't think suitable for modelling purposes. If you can, use white grease for modellers, texture like margerine - but don't use Margerine!! - or the Servisol type which is a light grease suitable for plastics........

The stripping down is simply to unscrew the body and then the bogie screws visible from the top; there is an aperture visible on the bogies gearbox. The cardan shafts will drop out of the UJ so make sure they go back properly. Just take time and work methodically. If it helps you, mark parts with a felt tip pen if you're uncertain and it all falls apart! (worse case scenario).

Good Luck

[GRUNFOS]

Waiting for its next job. 40 140 sat on the mock up for Polmadies replacement.

 

[bluex5]

Received my D211 today, have wanted to dip my toe into sound for a while and couldn't resist with Rails latest deal.

 

Lovely model and the sounds seem fine to me. However the standard decoder settings are crap! Was coggy as hell on the first couple of speed steps. An hours fiddling with CV2 / 52 / 53 and 54 had it running pretty smoothly low down. I've had the odd anomaly with it being unable to move with the sound running,, yet cancel the sound and it moves fine??? Nevertheless the issue went away and hasn't come back.

 

Problem is it opens the Pandora's box of wanting more sound chips!

[Market65]

Hi bluex5, you're quite right about the sound fitted D211. I've since purchased several chips for diesels and DMU's. A very expensive period of time since early March!  But how great this sound thing is. Smoke next, I think, especialy after seeing the class 100 DMU with smoking exhaust pipes.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[aac]

Paul, I used "Servisol Silicone Grease" and packed it well into the gearbox (through the aperture) and turned the drive by hand with the cardan shaft rotating slowly in the direction that takes the grease in naturally. Also I put grease in the universal joint at the motor end of the cardan shaft. Tidy up any trace of grease on the outsides with a cotton bud/clean cloth on cocktail stick. I left it overnight at cool room temperature (in the workshop), and next morning ran her, with a bit of anxiety!, but she was like a different beast altogether. Now running very smoothly and quiet. I did suspect that the gears might not even have been greased as there were no "tell-tale" signs when I thought about it afterwards. Good Luck with it. Persevere and I'm sure you'll get there. If you have any difficulties obtaining the grease let me know and I'll send you some.

Robert

I have already cleaned up and re-lubricated my 211, but wanted a good silicone to try. Just ordered a 50g tube of Servisol Silicone Grease from Amazon for £4.50 post-free which sounded a good deal.

[NERBOB]

I have already cleaned up and re-lubricated my 211, but wanted a good silicone to try. Just ordered a 50g tube of Servisol Silicone Grease from Amazon for £4.50 post-free which sounded a good deal.

Yes that's the one. Good Luck. (Don't overdo it though - it'll last for a long time!) Bear in mind where the loco is standing also - where there's full sun for example as this will obviously warm it and liquify it. Keep an eye on leakage of any kind and keep all clean and grease free where it's not supposed to be. Sounds obvious I know, but worth mentioning. All the best.

[aac]

Thanks for that, NERBOB. Too much grease can be a real pain hence my earlier post after I'd clobbered residual pink gunge with Cillit Bang and vinegar.

I've had good running, but I've also just tried the input of CV54 at 0 then F1 advised in # 901. That was a revelation which I then applied to other locos that were already running really smoothly. It's a bit of a shock to see it shoot off at speed, but it stopped 4 feet later. I'm not sure what goes on inside the chip, but what a difference! I learn something every day.

[JSpencer]

Thought I would compare it with an old Lima model!!!

 

 

Shape wise, the Lima and new Bachmann match each other everywhere. Obviously the Bachmann stands out more due to its fitted détails and far far better running qualities. I remember buying Bachmann's first class 46, the first UK diesel with Spectrum drive (centre motor and shafts to power wheels in each bogie). The 46 running wise was brilliant in its day but looks poor against this all new class 40.

 

There are detail différences concerning various panels and their positions. Comparisons with photos seems to show that both are correct for their respective prototype (both 40s coming from different production batches). 

 

Overall, someone wanting a cheap option could go for the Lima/Hornby version and detail it up.

 

 

[aac]

Thanks for that, NERBOB. Too much grease can be a real pain hence my earlier post after I'd clobbered residual pink gunge with Cillit Bang and vinegar.

I've had good running, but I've also just tried the input of CV54 at 0 then F1 advised in # 901. That was a revelation which I then applied to other locos that were already running really smoothly. It's a bit of a shock to see it shoot off at speed, but it stopped 4 feet later. I'm not sure what goes on inside the chip, but what a difference! I learn something every day.

 

 

Since my cleaning out of the gears in Post #863, and subsequently using the silicone grease advised in #931, I have been experimenting with D211's tuning after reading in detail one area of the Loksound v4.0 manual dated 2012. It is much easier to save the manual into your drive and then, in "VIEW", it can be opened to full page width to make it more user-friendly to read (It was handy to have it on a laptop next to the layout so I could read it as I went along. You will need Pages 47 - 49 for what follows).

 

Originally I had been happy playing with the basic CVs, and later setting CV54 to 0 and pressing F1 for the auto tune-up, but the manual gives additional guidance which I have spent a couple of hours trying. I had earlier been content to watch the loco run 5 feet and cross 4 points in 71 seconds, but I'll come back to that later.

 

I found the key to this tune-up was to play again (by Programming on the Main) initially with CVs 2,3,4,5, and 6, where eventually I found new settings after working from a starting point of using the data on a Loksound V4.0 Type 47 that runs beautifully throughout all speed steps from 1 upwards in the 128 range: After adjusting those settings to suit the Type 40, D211 eventually had the following data: CV2: 3; CV3; 63; CV4: 60; CV5: 220: CV6: 100: (CV63 (volume): 45). Since the silicone greasing of the gears, this data had worked well  (the eagle-eyed will notice that CV6, which should be a little over half the value of CV5, is less at present).

 

I then ran the CV54 trick (post #901) before putting the loco on the programming track to read the data settings for CVs 51 - 55. This is because, as the manual explains, the CV54 trick actually has a combined effect on the compensations governed by these other CVs, BUT - it also says that those other CVs can be fine-adjusted, so that is the next step -and what this post is about - for which the loco can now go back on the running tracks as we can do the remaining work by Programming on the Main.

 

To do the adjustments, I found it best to work on these CVs in the following order: 54, 55, 53, 52, 51. On Page 48 there is a table of settings with example data for each CV, but I found after trial and error that it wasn't much use, but the following procedure worked, all done at Speed Step 1 of 128, with sound and lights on;

 

CV54. (ref Manual 11.1.2.1. Parameter „K“) CV 54 had given me a data read-out of 42. The manual guides you to reducing the data figure 5 at a time between adjustments so that you get a smooth run at speed step 1 of 128. I found it easier giving myself a range between 35 and 85 and changing the setting by 5 at a time, subsequently fine adjusting by ones and twos, and finally settling on 65. This can all be done quickly by Programming on the Main - setting the data, giving it a run at Speed Step 1 for only a foot or two in each direction, and then setting up a change in data and trying it again until you get smooth, stutter-free running at Speed Step 1 of 128.

 

CV55. (ref manual 11.1.2.2. Parameter „I“). CV55 is really important as this deals with the inertia of the motor (i.e. the tendancy for the motor to want to remain at rest, or in uniform motion, so you have to be able to overcome either the sluggishness of something that is happy doing nothing, or is happy running merrily along). There had been discussion in this thread about whether the loco was too heavy for the gearing, etc, but what we are really dealing with is getting the flipping thing to move using its quality motor - or to stop! I even wondered if the output and input angles of the carden shafts were too steep and the UJs were trying to lock up). See the manual reference and adjust accordingly. Looking at the blow-up diagram that Bachmann supply, I worked on the "heavy flywheel" option, and again set myself a data range and worked in blocks of 5. I had an initial data read-out of 24, but moved all around the park to check before settling on 20 for smooth running at Speed Step 1.

 

CV53. (ref Manual 11.1.2.3. Reference Voltage) CV53 helps you to set the correlation between throttle setting and speed achieved. I don't need top speed on my layout as it is end-to-end in 11 feet of scenic work and then a fiddle yard, but it was useful to play with in data blocks of 5 and I settled on a setting of 80. I will probably experiment further with this CV, but for now I am happy.

 

CV 52. (ref Manual 11.1.2.4. Parameter “K slow”). CV52 helps sort out slow speed and starting to pull away.The manual advised setting the data about 5 or 10 higher than CV54. It didn't work for me, but with everything else set so far, playing around with this found a nice setting at 32 (i.e. lower than the CV54 data).

 

CV51. (ref Manual 11.1.2.5. Parameter „I slow“) CV 51 helps motor inertia at slow speeds or starting from a stop. The CV54 trick had left a data read-out of 0 in CV51, so again I moved in data blocks of 5 and finally found a result with a setting of 25. The result in chopping and changing this, as with all other CVs is visible in the way the running is affected as you try minimal adjustments so it is worth the bit of time it takes.

 

In summary my CV settings are now adjusted to CV2: 3;  CV3: 63;  CV4: 60;  CV5: 220;  CV6: 100;  CV51: 25;  CV52: 32;  CV53: 80;  CV54: 65;  CV55: 20.

 

Remember, once you have done the "CV54 Trick", put the loco on the programming track to read off the CV data for CVs 51-55, and then everything else you do is by Programming on the Main and doing adjustments in small data block changes. It won't take too long, but it's worth it. The loco is sound on, lights on, so you are driving as you adjust. I did find it best to do each setting change for that foot or two in both directions, as there is clearly some sort of slight preference the loco has for running in one direction or the other, and you can decide what you like best about the running quality.

 

KEEP A NOTE PAD TO HAND. Record each data setting for the initial read-out, and for the CVs as you go, and you will then have a complete table of the settings you tried to get where you finally end up.

 

And the timings? I said I had been pleased originally with the loco covering 5 feet, crossing 4 points in 71 seconds.

Following this work, the stop watch ran and recorded the following times (I promise you): 5 mins 21 secs; 5 mins 12 secs; 5 mins 23 secs; 5 mins 35 secs.  D211 now covers its own buffer head to buffer head length in an average time of 61 seconds.

 

My standard Bachmann couplings are modified with a small horizontal wire on the shank below the pivot point which is pulled down towards a rare earth magnet under the baseboard at uncoupling points, thereby lifting the hook off the drawbar. With these slow speed improvements the loco can now rev up, and then couple or uncouple really nicely, and that was ultimately what I wanted to get right. 

 

Cleaning out every trace of the "wrong" pink grease, re-lubricating properly with the silicone, and doing what the manual explains really well has utterly transformed this model. I hope this helps if you are still feeling a bit frustrated by the running quality of your loco. Go for it.

[Phil Bullock]

D200 (D211) now back from Howes - much better sound files

 

Have already played with CV5 & 6 but will have a good go based on these findings - many thanks, she ran round the test track for 3 hours the other night with 17 bolsters in tow so is well run in

 

Phil

[aac]

D200 (D211) now back from Howes - much better sound files

 

Have already played with CV5 & 6 but will have a good go based on these findings - many thanks, she ran round the test track for 3 hours the other night with 17 bolsters in tow so is well run in

 

Phil

 

I have had a further fine-adjustment session for the last 25 minutes. Originally I had set up the following: 

 

CV2: 3;  CV3: 63;  CV4: 60;  CV5: 220;  CV6: 100;  CV51: 25;  CV52: 32;  CV53: 80;  CV54: 65;  CV55: 20.

 

I have now re-adjusted to:

CV2: 3;  CV3: 63;  CV4: 60;  CV5: 220;  CV6: 100;  CV51: 25;  CV52: 75;  CV53: 90;  CV54: 70;  CV55: 18.

 

I am now certain that anyone who has had problems with running quality should concentrate particularly on Page 47 of the Manual which is easy to follow. Paras 11.1.2.4. Parameter “K slow” and 11.1.2.5. Parameter „I slow“ are essential for really smooth slow speed running.

[MikeParkin65]

So tempted by D211 as my first venture into DCC sound. Accepting the wisdom that the sound can be reblown and an improvement on Bachamnns original, is the basic package of loco, sound chip and speaker fitted good value? Or would it be better value to buy the components (chip, speaker, sound package) from someone like Howes and install in one of my existing fleet? On the face of it it seems Bachmann are only adding about £30 for fitting given the loco retails around £80 on its own and a sound kit to install is about £100.

[bluex5]

Phil, Can you advise how the Howes reblow has improved the sound over the original files? This is my first DCC sound loco and I'm quite pleased with it but I'm interested to know how a reblow could make it better.

 

Thanks!

[Phil Bullock]

Sorry hadn't replied earlier - only just seen this

 

The difference - for me - is as follows:

 

More of the characteristic whistle

 

Better top end thrash

 

And key is that the sound files are tuned to the driving of the loco without having to go through all the rigmarole of resetting CVs yourself

 

Have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgALWABO0UM&feature=youtu.be - sorry its only a test track clip

 

And compare with the real thing which I filmed today at Norton Junction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVf-tEmtKgk

 

Horses for courses - you makes your choice! But a sound file from an enthusiastic secondary supplier is always likely to drive better than a main market installed device.

 

As for economics Hattons currently quote £208 for DCC sound and £81 for non DCC loco so that's £127 to play with. Loksound V4 chip £84 at SWD plus £6 for speaker plus £15 for reblow at Howes - so that leaves you £22 to cover postages, ends up probably not much in it! If you are going to get it reblown any way then the SWD chip has to be the better bet - and I haven't tried changing the speaker fitted in D211, the mounting probably restricts options significantly.

 

Hope that all helps!
 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

Having seen 40 145 at Shrub Hill on Saturday morning, temptation overcame me and by offering Mrs Parkin a 'shopping trip to Cheltenham' managed to acquire D211 from the well known suppliers in that town. I'm relieved to say that it runs fine straight from the box and I'll use it as a template for future sound fittings so I consider it money well spent!

 

Just having a play with it now - I understand what others have said that this could get expensive. Mrs Parkin is impressed (she has no interest in railways at all) though her favourite sound by far was the 'Guards whistle'!

[railroadbill]

Sorry hadn't replied earlier - only just seen this

 

The difference - for me - is as follows:

 

More of the characteristic whistle

 

Better top end thrash

 

And key is that the sound files are tuned to the driving of the loco without having to go through all the rigmarole of resetting CVs yourself

 

Have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgALWABO0UM&feature=youtu.be - sorry its only a test track clip

 

And compare with the real thing which I filmed today at Norton Junction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVf-tEmtKgk

 

Horses for courses - you makes your choice! But a sound file from an enthusiastic secondary supplier is always likely to drive better than a main market installed device.

 

As for economics Hattons currently quote £208 for DCC sound and £81 for non DCC loco so that's £127 to play with. Loksound V4 chip £84 at SWD plus £6 for speaker plus £15 for reblow at Howes - so that leaves you £22 to cover postages, ends up probably not much in it! If you are going to get it reblown any way then the SWD chip has to be the better bet - and I haven't tried changing the speaker fitted in D211, the mounting probably restricts options significantly.

 

Hope that all helps!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 

Couple of great videos Phil, the whistling whistler sounds just the job actually.  And nice to see 345/40 145, hadn't realised it was out on the main line, I'll have to keep a closer eye on these things! (Did look good with the headcodes as well).

Thanks.

[bluex5]

Thank Phil, excellent info! Might have to look into a reblow then.

[Phil Bullock]

Welcome!

 

Find what you like and go with it.....

 

Have fun - Kind regards

 

Phil

[bluex5]

I've seen your Youtube videos Phil, excellent stuff, especially the Hydraulics

 

Quick question - does the Howes 40 project respond better to acceleration / decelaration?? One of the things I don't like on the original sound file is that the revs don't die back to idle quickly if you kill the power from about speed step 4, so you end up with a stationary loco revving it's crackers off for several seconds.