EBay madness

[Enterprisingwestern]

Interesting.

 

ive got a glossy sales document that represented the power point slides (It might have been overhead projector slides back then), as left by the GM Sales guys to BR for pitching the 59 as a competing alternative to the class 60.

 

I wonder if that's worth anything ?

 

Everything on ebay is worth something!

 

Mike.

[leopardml2341]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-Wagons-33-601-12-Ton-Ventilated-Van/292350102787?hash=item44116c8d03:g:ntgAAOSwAHtZ9ity

 

Really?

 

Seller says:

 

“Listed as used, but actually brand new” - so why not list it as new? (Ah, it'll be the Beatties price label, £4.95, that gives it away )

 

"Need to go as moving home" - somehow I think he'll be taking this and all his other stuff with him!

Edited December 29, 2017 by leopardml2341

[Metr0Land]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-Wagons-33-601-12-Ton-Ventilated-Van/292350102787?hash=item44116c8d03:g:ntgAAOSwAHtZ9ity

 

Really?

 

Seller says:

 

“Listed as used, but actually brand new” - so why not list it as new? (Ah, it'll be the Beatties price label, £4.95, that gives it away )

 

 

 

Ebay won't allow you to sell new old items 'as new' or 'new' any more

[John M Upton]

And if you put anything such as 'like new' or 'as new' in the description then EBay will cancel your listing and send you a You've been a naughty boy' message.

 

I do think they should have better things to do like stamp down on dodgy sellers.

[adb968008]

And if you put anything such as 'like new' or 'as new' in the description then EBay will cancel your listing and send you a You've been a naughty boy' message.

 

I do think they should have better things to do like stamp down on dodgy sellers.

I disagree.

There’s nothing worse than buying something “as new”, finding something broken, or it’s been used, or finding its got no warranty as the seller is not a registered account with the vendor.

 

It’s either new, or it’s not.

 

I support ebay fully on this.

 

Would you buy an “as new” unused bottle of coke and be happy to find it had been opened ?

[leopardml2341]

For me, it's only new if it comes with OEM warranty.

 

Please..... (looks into crystal ball)

 

Don't let the 'mint' debate surface again!

Edited December 29, 2017 by leopardml2341

[Colin_McLeod]

Mint boxed.

Only removed from the box for the photograph.

Not eaten.

[PatB]

I disagree.

There’s nothing worse than buying something “as new”, finding something broken, or it’s been used, or finding its got no warranty as the seller is not a registered account with the vendor.

 

It’s either new, or it’s not.

 

I support ebay fully on this.

 

Would you buy an “as new” unused bottle of coke and be happy to find it had been opened ?

 

That would be an inaccurate description then, regardless of the wording used.

[royaloak]

Mint boxed.

Only removed from the box for the photograph.

Not eaten.

FB_IMG_1514557087738.jpg

Posted nearly 4 hours early! 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Posted nearly 4 hours early! 

 

, or just over 7 hours late?

 

Mike.

[royaloak]

, or just over 7 hours late?

 

Mike.

Fair point, well made!

[FJ1701]

Firstly I would like to apologise for this upcoming essay but I must express my concerns about my most recent purchase.

 

Hello there, I recently bought a Hornby class 423 VEP off ebay (I know what you are all thinking) as it is an integral part of the area and era I want to model. With the model being somewhat sought after even with it's various faults, I found one on ebay for only £165 so I bought it. It came packaged well and I was really looking forward to opening the box and run the model for the first time however... The model ran poorly with a horrible grinding sound in one direction and the wheels all had different spacing's which needed adjusting to ensure it ran properly. Along with all that, the interior lights would not work under DCC power with a fitted chip and the directional lights ran in the wrong direction. These however are all issues which many owners are aware of but when it came to consulting with the ebay seller, they were reluctant to acknowledge the faults and would not allow a refund. Here is the description of the model from the ebay seller, note they state the model comes "DCC fitted" but I found no chip inside which makes me wonder if they even ran the model before selling it to me.

 

Item description:

 

"Hornby R2947 NSE Class 433/1 4 Car VEP EMU Pack. Although in a DCC ready Box this Set was supplied factory fitted with a R8429 decoder . Directional Headlights and illuminated Headcodes. Model is Mint as new condition. Box mint with Instrucions and only opened for pictures Accessory and Headcode Packs included. Although advertised as used this is an unused set in immaculate condition. You will not be disappointed. This will be well packed for postage and recorded delivery because of the value. Collection ba21 if better for you.thankyou for looking."

 

My first message to the seller after finding the issues. 

 

"Hi there, I have experienced a few issues regarding this model so must request it be returned and I receive a refund. The description says that the model comes DCC fitted, I only found a DC blanking plate inside and the model is not a good runner with faults such as interior lights not working and directional lighting in the incorrect direction when fitted with a DCC chip. All of these issues I’m sure you are aware of but must be outlined when you resell the model. The motor also has a grinding noise when running. The model is still in the condition you sold it to me with no marks and the detail pack still intact. Many thanks and apologies that I am returning it but I am just not happy with the models characteristics and running quality after receiving it."

 

The seller then sent me three messages regarding my concerns for the model:

 

"This was first class when checked. No grinding noises. And working lights. This seems to be strange"

 

"I'm sorry but you have taken this train apart and I can't guarantee that you haven't damage this unit you have already said you tried to fit a chip and have looked inside this train this was sold as brand new only opened to take a pictures and I do know that the train was running silent as I tested it. I'm sorry but if you wasn't happy you should never take the train apart you have now taking the train apart and I'm not prepared to refund you because I can't guarantee that you didn't damage it"

 

"Maybe if you thought there was a problem inside you should have got permission from me to do so so I was aware what you were going to do first this is not good practice to take something apart and then ask for a refund"

 

As you might be able to tell, these messages from the seller sound rude and unprofessional but store this in your mind. After receiving these messages in the space of three minutes, I replied back in a polite and conserved manner assuring the seller I had not tampered with the model.

 

"First off, the condition stated on the items front page is “used” but differs in the items description which I found very strange and the model did not come fitted with a chip which proves you did not check the model. The process of running a model in DCC means a chip must be fitted so I had to take the body off. I can assure you no damage has been done however if you are reluctant to take the model back then I will sell it and write the description in a way which properly describes the models faults to ensure this situation does not occur for future buyers."

 

Their reply to my message stating the obvious:

 

"Ty"

 

Yes, that's all they sent me but they quickly followed up with a message below:

 

"I assure you I haven't done anything that I didn't believe was wrong. Thank you for selling this on. I believe this train is not a disappointment. I'm not trying to be awkward. But I'm begging to think that selling trains on eBay is more trouble than it's worth. The amount of people that break them and then want a refund is unbelievable. It's all becoming so frustrating. Once again thank you and I'm sorry your disappointed. I will say these trains are worth a lot more than I sold it for. So I hope you can make profit too. Sorry regards"

 

It's very odd as that last message is written in a completely different way with no spelling mistakes at all! This leads me to believe that some child has sold me this item and has been messaging me until, his dad realised what has happened. That was a very long message but goes to show how some sellers can't be trusted so now i'm stuck with a Hornby class 423 in Network South East livery if anyone wants it. Many thanks.

 

Rory

Edited December 30, 2017 by FJ1701

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Firstly I would like to apologise for this upcoming essay but I must express my concerns about my most recent purchase.

 

Hello there, I recently bought a Hornby class 423 VEP off ebay (I know what you are all thinking) as it is an integral part of the area and era I want to model. With the model being somewhat sought after even with it's various faults, I found one on ebay for only £165 so I bought it. It came packaged well and I was really looking forward to opening the box and run the model for the first time however... The model ran poorly with a horrible grinding sound in one direction and the wheels all had different spacing's which needed adjusting to ensure it ran properly. Along with all that, the interior lights would not work under DCC power with a fitted chip and the directional lights ran in the wrong direction. These however are all issues which many owners are aware of but when it came to consulting with the ebay seller, they were reluctant to acknowledge the faults and would not allow a refund. Here is the description of the model from the ebay seller, note they state the model comes "DCC fitted" but I found no chip inside which makes me wonder if they even ran the model before selling it to me.

 

Item description:

 

"Hornby R2947 NSE Class 433/1 4 Car VEP EMU Pack. Although in a DCC ready Box this Set was supplied factory fitted with a R8429 decoder . Directional Headlights and illuminated Headcodes. Model is Mint as new condition. Box mint with Instrucions and only opened for pictures Accessory and Headcode Packs included. Although advertised as used this is an unused set in immaculate condition. You will not be disappointed. This will be well packed for postage and recorded delivery because of the value. Collection ba21 if better for you.thankyou for looking."

 

My first message to the seller after finding the issues. 

 

"Hi there, I have experienced a few issues regarding this model so must request it be returned and I receive a refund. The description says that the model comes DCC fitted, I only found a DC blanking plate inside and the model is not a good runner with faults such as interior lights not working and directional lighting in the incorrect direction when fitted with a DCC chip. All of these issues I’m sure you are aware of but must be outlined when you resell the model. The motor also has a grinding noise when running. The model is still in the condition you sold it to me with no marks and the detail pack still intact. Many thanks and apologies that I am returning it but I am just not happy with the models characteristics and running quality after receiving it."

 

The seller then sent me three messages regarding my concerns for the model:

 

"This was first class when checked. No grinding noises. And working lights. This seems to be strange"

 

"I'm sorry but you have taken this train apart and I can't guarantee that you haven't damage this unit you have already said you tried to fit a chip and have looked inside this train this was sold as brand new only opened to take a pictures and I do know that the train was running silent as I tested it. I'm sorry but if you wasn't happy you should never take the train apart you have now taking the train apart and I'm not prepared to refund you because I can't guarantee that you didn't damage it"

 

"Maybe if you thought there was a problem inside you should have got permission from me to do so so I was aware what you were going to do first this is not good practice to take something apart and then ask for a refund"

 

As you might be able to tell, these messages from the seller sound rude and unprofessional but store this in your mind. After receiving these messages in the space of three minutes, I replied back in a polite and conserved manner assuring the seller I had not tampered with the model.

 

"First off, the condition stated on the items front page is “used” but differs in the items description which I found very strange and the model did not come fitted with a chip which proves you did not check the model. The process of running a model in DCC means a chip must be fitted so I had to take the body off. I can assure you no damage has been done however if you are reluctant to take the model back then I will sell it and write the description in a way which properly describes the models faults to ensure this situation does not occur for future buyers."

 

Their reply to my message stating the obvious:

 

"Ty"

 

Yes, that's all they sent me but they quickly followed up with a message below:

 

"I assure you I haven't done anything that I didn't believe was wrong. Thank you for selling this on. I believe this train is not a disappointment. I'm not trying to be awkward. But I'm begging to think that selling trains on eBay is more trouble than it's worth. The amount of people that break them and then want a refund is unbelievable. It's all becoming so frustrating. Once again thank you and I'm sorry your disappointed. I will say these trains are worth a lot more than I sold it for. So I hope you can make profit too. Sorry regards"

 

It's very odd as that last message is written in a completely different way with no spelling mistakes at all! This leads me to believe that some child has sold me this item and has been messaging me until, his dad realised what has happened. That was a very long message but goes to show how some sellers can't be trusted so now i'm stuck with a Hornby class 423 in Network South East livery if anyone wants it. Many thanks.

 

Rory

 

 

Are you sure there aren't any spelling mistakes in that last message, I can see a couple and a grammatical error at least.

I hope I'm not smelling a rat?

 

Mike.

[FJ1701]

Are you sure there aren't any spelling mistakes in that last message, I can see a couple and a grammatical error at least.

I hope I'm not smelling a rat?

 

Mike.

 

There are probably a few grammatical errors that I missed however the last message just sounds different in the way it was written. This is a real conversion between me and the seller but It's just a shame to invest so much money into a model and receive little to no acknowledgement from the user that it has faults even after they tested it. Thanks, Rory.

[CUTLER2579]

I am surprised that e-bay have not given you a refund,they usually side with the buyer.

A friend of mine sold a loco on e-bay,sent it Special Delivery and had the money taken from his Paypal account and returned to the buyer after the buyer claimed he had never received it.. This despite my friend contacting the Post Office or tracking it on their website, I can't quite remember and found a signature had been made by the same name as the buyer. He sent a copy of this receipt to e-bay,but this made no difference and not only was my friend out of pocket for a lovely loco,but to rub salt into the wound he had paid £11 for Special Delivery.  The Post Office quite rightly said they had a signature that was that of the addressee, therefore they would not accept a claim for non delivery.

[njee20]

Report it to eBay, it’s not as advertised. Get refund. Done.

[Colin_McLeod]

And if that does not work go to the small claims procedure. E bay may write their own rules but the law of the land still applies.

[73c]

I agree, open a case with eBay and they should refund you.

[adb968008]

My ebay > Purchase History> “Orders” section, scroll to item...

Next to said item look for “More Actions”

“Return this item” >

 

Select reason as “doesn’t match description or photos”

Put a very brief reason, usually I put in quotes the sellers original description” and point out where it differs.

Submit the return.

 

Immediateky a case is opened, and his money is restricted, preventing him taking it.

 

After that, it’s down to patience and ebay but you will win.

 

The seller can kick, scream and protest as much as they like, but if after 5 days he hasn’t sent you a prepaid return label, you can request ebay give you one, and they will make him pay for it.

Ensure you return the item, once you have the return label, and keep the receipt, it costs you nothing.

Ebay places the tracking number onto the site, check the link periodically, if he hasn’t refunded you in full, including your original postage 5 days after recieving it, you can ask ebay to step in again and they will force the money out of the seller including original postage immediately.

 

 

Most important from your side is to keep it honest and factual.

 

Make sure you return everything, and that you use the return label they give you, and keep a receipt in the timescales ebay says (which is pretty good, I think it’s about 3 weeks end to end, so if you want to tie up the sellers money and inconvenience him you have time to do it too).

 

No need for big dramatic statements, your “other losses or impact or inconvenience” are of no interest to anyone else, nor does it help you, similarly strongly worded stress emails also don’t help, and given the balance of winning is highly on your side, it’s not needed, it’s just patience.

 

There’s a couple of ways the seller can win here,

1:you don’t return the item, or you don’t return all of it

2: you miss the deadlines

3: you don’t keep the return receipt or don’t use the return label and it’s receipts.

 

I’ve bought for myself hundreds of items and as executor sold hundreds more this year, I can say as both buyer and seller, as long as you follow eBay’s path you will prevail on returns, and hard as it is for a seller, they can win too, but it’s loaded to the buyer.

 

The seller can claim outside of ebay that you damaged and /or didn’t return the full item, but they need extreme levels of proof.

Edited December 31, 2017 by adb968008

[JimHearne]

I agree with pretty much all of the above, i've returned around 6 locos to ebay for not being as described, ebay have always given me a full refund, in one case the seller didn't even want the loco back !.

 

I don't bother discussing it will the seller before i open a case, just open the return and then discuss it through there, that way Ebay see everything you've both said.

 

The only thing i would say is keep it simple when you ask for the return, it makes a grinding noise and doesn't work on DCC as it was suppose to, therefore is it not as described and you want to return it, that's enough.

The Ebay people won't know what DCC is or really understand why you took it apart so don't tell them, or the seller unless he asks you to check.

By telling the seller you took it apart that may have just given the seller enough ammunition to not accept the return.

But, you will probably still win.

 

Jim

Edited December 31, 2017 by JimHearne

[adb968008]

I should add, the only power the seller really has in all this, is reputation.

If you or they haggle or argue, over a full or partial refund, the buyer can always drop negative feedback.

 

However in accepting a return, all feedback on the transaction is removed/not enabled.

Obviously the seller can also block you in less than a few clicks and they will never know or hear from you again, even your emails won’t reach them if they choose.

 

If it’s someone your likely to deal with again it’s worth thinking about.

 

(I have a 1 chance policy, i’ll not haggle or even get into a debate, but i’ll accept all returns without question, as getting the item back, even broken has some value. However first thing I do is ban the user and all further emails, then issue the refund), my reputation is protected and they are refunded in full, but it cost me two directions in postal fees, so I’ve no desire to sell to them again).

 

I’ve had to sell the better half of over 1000 items this year from my late fathers collection, only 6 returns, 1 which despite agreeing the return ultimately saw the sale in my favour as the buyer refused to return the item. When I checked the blocked buyer list, I have about 40 names there, 10 from this year (some buyers have multiple id’s and tried to circumvent the ban it to keep buying from me).

All the returns this year have either been damaged, or the buyer changed their minds and use the “not as described” route as means to send it back at no cost to them.

Edited December 31, 2017 by adb968008

[leopardml2341]

Sadly, it's just too risky to believe that everyone has good intentions.

[FJ1701]

Many thanks for everyone's helpful and supportive comments on this annoying situation. As adb968008 said, the feedback could be removed if an agreement is made to return the item for a refund however in the light of this, someone has approached me who can make the necessary modifications to fix the model to a usable and presentable standard and even offered to buy it. I would have followed ebays procedure to return the item but frankly, its not worth the hassle if someone is willing to take it off my hands for a good price with the knowledge of how to rectify the various problems. This also allows the negative feedback I left to stay on the sellers page warning any future buyers not to or be careful when purchasing from them. This might not be the ending you are expecting but some Ebay sellers these days need a kick up the arse! Cheers

 

Rory

['CHARD]

Okay.  Back to the madness;

 

Not the original vehicles, i have replaced them with much better diecast.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-car-transporter/272988061580?hash=item3f8f5b3f8c:g:BqQAAOSwoAxZuUdx

[MartinWales]

or the buyer changed their minds and use the “not as described” route as means to send it back at no cost to them.

Had one of those last year who bought three identical items off me and returned two, at no cost to him. Needless to say I DID drag my heels a bit with his request.........