Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Andrew P]

Hi Andy - I'll see what I can get, distant shot-wise....

 

Bad news for you re. walling... I did a Google on "Devon stone walls" (is your layout Cornwall?). I'm afraid it came up with lots of images like this:

 

Looks like you are in for a bit of walling!!!   

 

Jeff

I'm not sure about walling I am ready to START WAILING. :scared: :scared:

 

EDIT = I am in Cornwall. :locomotive:

Bodgit

Edited July 2, 2013 by Andrew P

[Physicsman]

Ok Andy....you wanted walling pics....

 

Here's the current wall after another hour of work:

 

 

 

And here's a view down the Fell - not sure which way you wanted it...

 

 

 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

[Alister_G]

That looks great Jeff, the long shot really puts into perspective how much SIZE there is!

 

Would I be lynched if I made a small comment?

 

It's a very nice stile, it's just you appear to have put it at one of the highest points of the immediate landscape on a ridge line.

 

It would be my thought that pathways, and therefore the stiles that serve them, tend to follow the line of least resistance, and would be more likely to be in the lower part of the field nearer the other wall.

 

As it is, you would have to make quite a steep climb to get to the stile.

 

 

 

I'll run away and hide now...

Edited July 2, 2013 by acg_mr

[jukebox]

I look at that fell, and keep thinking it would be great to excavate a cutting through it and run a high speed line straight through it.... 

[Physicsman]

I look at that fell, and keep thinking it would be great to excavate a cutting through it and run a high speed line straight through it.... 

 

Well you sure made me laugh out loud when I read that one!!

 

It's what the French would do - even if there were a million people living on the Fell. If it was in the way of the TGV there'd be only one winner!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

That looks great Jeff, the long shot really puts into perspective how much SIZE there is!

 

Would I be lynched if I made a small comment?

 

It's a very nice stile, it's just you appear to have put it at one of the highest points of the immediate landscape on a ridge line.

 

It would be my thought that pathways, and therefore the stiles that serve them, tend to follow the line of least resistance, and would be more likely to be in the lower part of the field nearer the other wall.

 

As it is, you would have to make quite a steep climb to get to the stile.

 

 

 

I'll run away and hide now...

 

I'm sure you are right Al. For the faint-hearted, there'll be a stile at the lower end. I just fancied sticking one "up top" and, as I'm no expert in the placement of such items, my ignorance shows!

 

A bit more walling tomorrow, but priority will be my ballast method trials. I see Jason lurking at the foot of the thread - well, the Copydex will be out.....!!

 

Jeff

[Removed a/c]

Thanks for the information Jeff, much obliged. 

[Andrew P]

Ok Andy....you wanted walling pics....

 

Here's the current wall after another hour of work:

 

100_3556.JPG

 

100_3558.JPG

 

And here's a view down the Fell - not sure which way you wanted it...

 

100_3559.JPG

 

100_3560.JPG

 

100_3561.JPG

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff, thanks for some more great pics, the long distance shoots do you / me an idea of just how much the is to cover and it is amazing just how natural it looks already.

 

Brilliant mate, Well done my Son.

 

Bodgit

[Andrew P]

Oh well if we cant have grass then at least we can expect some BALLAST, hahaaa

 

Come on Jeff do it in STILE style, hhahaaaheeeeeee :no: :no:

 

Bodgit

[robmcg]

Jeff is there room for a model railway under all that white stuff?

 

below is a 1958 Saturday express between Yeovil and Salisbury, a Bulleid-free train, all Hornby too!

 

 

 

[Andrew P]

Jeff is there room for a model railway under all that white stuff?

 

below is a 1958 Saturday express between Yeovil and Salisbury, a Bulleid-free train, all Hornby too!

 

N15_Salisbury_Yeovil_1958_fast_relief_express_3abc_r800.jpg

Rob, with the signal up you were lucky not to have the down train come through and spoil the pic, hahaa

 

P.S. Which one is it, I cant read the number?

 

Bodgit

[MichaelW]

It's a very nice stile, it's just you appear to have put it at one of the highest points of the immediate landscape on a ridge line.

 

It would be my thought that pathways, and therefore the stiles that serve them, tend to follow the line of least resistance, and would be more likely to be in the lower part of the field nearer the other wall.

 

As it is, you would have to make quite a steep climb to get to the stile.

 

 

I wouldn't worry Jeff - by the looks of things you could run the path from the corner of the aqueducts up to the other wall just as it disappears into the backscene - in my experience paths over moorland tend to run feature to feature (be they rocks, poles or stiles) - so much easier to find the way when it snows.

 

Your walling is looking very impressive Jeff!  I hope you don't run out of enthusiasm for it before you reach the other end of the fell!

 

Edit - got the aqueduct and tunnel mixed up...

Edited July 3, 2013 by MichaelW

[MichaelW]

 

The critics argue that this method doesn't give a "deep-ballast" effect. At the moment, I've no idea what'll happen - so I've got some offcuts of SMP ready to give it a try!

 

 

And the critics are right It doesn't give a 'deep-ballast' effect, but then, you aren't using peco with its deep sleepers, so you don't need the extra depth.  For SMP / C&L you only need a thin layer to come up to the tops of the sleepers, and you've got the cork to give you shoulders.  From my limited experience:

 

1) The consistency of the glue matters a lot - PVA doesn't need watering down a lot - I think Gordon S describes it as 'thick cream', I guess copydex will be similar.

 

2) Paint the track first - that way you can spray it, rather than having to pick out each individual sleeper (this also helps hide the colour of the cork under the ballast.

 

3) Take your time - you don't have to do it all in one go

[Rowsley17D]

Morning Jeff, I too am awaiting the ballast experiments with bated breath, you do realise that the future build method of several planned layouts hang on what you find out. No pressure then. Are you also going to try the wet method with PVA and Copydex?

[Physicsman]

Morning Jeff, I too am awaiting the ballast experiments with bated breath, you do realise that the future build method of several planned layouts hang on what you find out. No pressure then. Are you also going to try the wet method with PVA and Copydex?

 

Greetings Jonathan.

 

I've always used the wet method for PVA, so I'm not bothering with that. I just want to see - for myself, as Jason has shown us numerous pics - what the coverage is like with the "paint on" method.

 

Michael - great to have you back on here. I've got some aerosol cans of Howes' Rail Grime that I'll apply to the track before ballasting - though not in the tests.

 

Jeff

Edited July 3, 2013 by Physicsman

[Rowsley17D]

Hi Jeff, thought you might try the wet method but with Copydex instead of PVA, doesn't set solid like PVA.

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, thought you might try the wet method but with Copydex instead of PVA, doesn't set solid like PVA.

 

I've set up the Copydex trial using the dry method. I've used my usual 4:1 ballast mix (2mm: 4mm) Woodland Scenics grey blend.

 

Track has been treated by painting between sleepers with Copydex at:

 

1 C : 4 water

 

1C : 2 water

 

Neat C

 

Ballast sprinkled on immediately.

 

Then I've tried...

 

1C : 2 water

 

Neat C

 

giving each a 10 minute curing time before sprinkling on the ballast.

 

I have a bit of diluted Copydex left over so I'll have a go at the "wet" method in a mo.

 

Once everything is dry I'll post photos of the results.

 

Jeff

Edited July 3, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Here's what C&L say about PVA. They do seem to suggest using the dropper method though, which surprised me (painting the glue in takes much longer but is far, far neater)

 

"Once laid, the ballast should be secured in place without delay. Our suggestion is not use diluted PVA! Why? Well it does have disadvantages. For instance, once dry, it can give the ballast an unnatural glossy look and sets like rock!

Instead use a latex glue such as Copydex, diluted with about 4 volumes of water. Note - Your local carpet shop will sell you a 5 litre drum of Latex quite cheaply. It will last forever and is ideal for many gluing operations. Pre wet the ballast by spraying over lightly with water and then dribble the water/latex solution by means of an eyedropper. Clean up if necessary, as soon as the glue is dry. Pick off any remaining blobs or bits of ballast which have got above the sleepers or onto the sides of the rail."

With my last layout, I used the PVA and dropper method and with 2mm & ash ballast, I had a devil of a job to try and keep it in place and looking ok; I sprayed the water on to dampen it and the ballast (Woodland Scenics that time) would all form together into little, crappy looking clumps that were a swine to get rid of. That is the main reason I went for the method I used with Bacup (idea gleaned from Gordon S and Captain Kernow). Is it worth the extra effort? Very much so. Another factor is the thickness of sleepers with SMP track - it needs treating with more care and attention than Peco.

 

I totally agree with Jason having just tried to "wet" the ballast....

 

Even a fine spray of water (with a drop of detergent) sent the fine 2mm particles flying in all directions and clumping into the "crappy looking lumps" he referred to!

 

I tried this 3 times, same result. Looks like a dry method - Copydex or PVA for me!

 

I think the problem is compounded by 2 factors compared to my old layout: the shallow thickness of the SMP sleepers and the use of fine 2mm (rather than 4mm - which tend to stay put) particles of ballast.

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

Thanks for these results Jeff.

 

When I ballasted a small section of track on my abandoned layout in my old house using the wet method, I was using Carrs' 4 mm ballast. I wonder if the problem is with the Woodland Scenics' ballast rather than the method? The Carrs' stuff didn't move when wetted, but I did use a fine spray container and not an old kitchen/bathroom cleaning spray bottle, but still no movement and no clumping.

 

Carrs' 4 mm is for 4 mm modelling you don't have to use 2 mm ballast for 4 mm track.

 

Looking forward to seeing the results of "dry" method though.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Rowsley17D

[Physicsman]

Thanks for these results Jeff.

 

When I ballasted a small section of track on my abandoned layout in my old house using the wet method, I was using Carrs' 4 mm ballast. I wonder if the problem is with the Woodland Scenics' ballast rather than the method? The Carrs' stuff didn't move when wetted, but I did use a fine spray container and not an old kitchen/bathroom cleaning spray bottle, but still no movement and no clumping.

 

Carrs' 4 mm is for 4 mm modelling you don't have to use 2 mm ballast for 4 mm track.

 

Looking forward to seeing the results of "dry" method though.

 

Very true, but I've always thought "4mm" was a bit overscale - hence the reason I mix it in with a greater proportion of 2mm.

 

The Copydex has now had 4 hours to set - not having used it before I've no idea how long to leave it. I'll get the cleaner on it now and photograph the results...

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

Very true, but I've always thought "4mm" was a bit overscale - hence the reason I mix it in with a greater proportion of 2mm.

 

The Copydex has now had 4 hours to set - not having used it before I've no idea how long to leave it. I'll get the cleaner on it now and photograph the results...

 

Jeff

My fingers are firmly crossed Jeff as my results with neat Copydex and 2mm Woodland Scenics ballast were not good (although I did it by putting Copydex down first, then track, then ballast).

[MichaelW]

I've had similar problems with the WS 2mm ballast - in the end I decided it was down to the fineness of the sprayer used for the wetting.  Anything coarser than a proper mist caused problems with the ballast.  Eventually I found a plant sprayer that was designed for misting plants, and used that for the last set of ballasting on my 009 modules - which seemed to work fine when squirted across the track (so any big drips missed the ballast).  It certainly is an art to get 2mm ballast to stay in place...

[ChrisN]

Scott - as soon as I saw you'd posted I thought..."here comes the mankini!!"

 

Maybe someone who is skillful with 00 figures could make a mankini-clad figure to walk the Fell, herding the sheep. Just a suggestion .... Chris?

 

At least it isn't Reg Varney! 

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

Did you mean me or someone who knows what they are doing?

 

Interestingly though I just have bought some Preiser Beach figures, plus a few others and some Milliput to alter some of them so in the next couple of weeks I could produce something if two figures in mankinis are not two too many.

 

It is on hold at the moment as I am spending all my time modelling!!!!!  I am building a couple of structures, 4 terraced cottages and a Hobbit house to be used in a film my son is making.  He won't need them before 13th so there is no pressure!! 

[Donw]

I do like the look of the fells Jeff. The stile could be on the top if there was a reason to go that way (off scene naturally). I tend to use some N gauge ballast for 0 gauge it is crushed granite and the PVA makes it darker and more green so it needs heavy weathering. I had some trouble with it not sticking to the base (mainly on the board transported upside down to shows) so I started putting a bit of glue down first then spread the ballast and wet it. Dribbling on diluted PVA ballast did tend to float away if not done carefully.

 

Also where Andy's layout is set I would think a Devon Bank would be more likely. A earth bank with a hedge planted on top and facd with stones or just turf look lovely when the primroses are out.

Don

[Physicsman]

My fingers are firmly crossed Jeff as my results with neat Copydex and 2mm Woodland Scenics ballast were not good (although I did it by putting Copydex down first, then track, then ballast).

 

Mike - the results of ALL the tests with Copydex were TERRIBLE. A horror story - I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them - we all need a laugh!!

 

I'm going to order some Carrs 2mm ballast and try that.

 

In the meantime, I'll try 2mm onto painted-on PVA....

 

Jeff