ozzyo Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks Ozzy O master, are they lolly sticks? i tend to be a bit heavy handed sometimes especialy on curves so for large amouns of flash i use a file ( or flat stanley blade ) otherwise its a thumb or finger job with emery. OzzyO this is for you sir please do not cry with envy ( or laughter ) Hello Grasshopper, yes they're lolly sticks stuck into an inverted T, I have them with 120, 180, 240?, 400 & 1000 grit stuck on to them. We all have to start somewhere. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 So close yet so far the amount of filling just to get this far, bought another set of files this morning and they are already a bit clogged up, as you can see I’m having a bit of trouble with the spectacle plate rather than file the boiler I will file the bottom half of the spectacle plate to make it sit correctly, the boiler is temp fitted to footplate so the retaining screw all lines up HA, got something right J all fits quite neatly to be honest just a bit of fiddling with the spectacle plate. Grasshopper John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 John Not too certain which bit of the spectacle plate you are filing, but check first that it does not affect the fit of the cab sides and roof Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 John Not too certain which bit of the spectacle plate you are filing, but check first that it does not affect the fit of the cab sides and roof I will John, I think i will file a small bit off the bottom so it sits square shoud'nt have to much impact on cab sides and roof as it has to sit at 90 degrees but i've thought that before to my peril. Air brush arrived yesterday and the wife signed for it just did a test run with no paint to get feel I Like it, just got to learn how to use it, slowly slowly Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Easy and cheap way to learn to spray is to use water. Spray onto something that changes colour when wet. Always start the air first and then the paint if it is a duel action airbrush. Always have the paint spraying and moving before you get to what you want to paint. It will run and alsorts if you start on the model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Almost there not a bad fit actually dry fitted cab sides and roof ( could’nt move it though ) but its looking a lot better, cab roof is slightly on a tilt but that’s because is not fixed yet. Could probably do a bit more filling but I think I may go down the filler route as the gap is so small. One thing if I ‘m ever asked for my fingerprints I hav’nt got any ïŠ John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 All Primed, and fits together ok just cab to assemble plus attaching the spectacle plate and almost done on the top I fitted the smokebox door and realised I needed to drill some holes for two handrail knobs, I did but just glued them in place. Then I realised I had to drill a hole in boiler side for steam pipe and one in the spectacle plate to hold in place before I could start. I want to paint separately so the frame, body, and footplate will be done individually, prob do it by hand until I have a chance to master the airbrush must admit very impressed with etch primer though. Grasshopper John. PS my first coat was ruined when I went to put boiler in the sun and it rolled of my piece of cardbord straight into some earth that the wind had blown over a plant on the table I was drying it on in the garden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 A class 47 may be said to have a chassis And you may be wrong - the 47 has a load bearing body, much like a modern monocoche (sp?) car. A class 58 is a different proposition again. A model is slightly different as we might say a model has a chassis frame or moulding. However, no point getting bogged down in terms at this stage. Because models differ from the prototype in their construction, simply using all the same terms can be misleading. And John; great to see someone getting on and modelling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 The A3 is coming on, will look even better when the colours are applied. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hello John, A class 47 may be said to have a chassis, as the bodywork framework is attached to it. If you think of a Land Rover it has a chassis, but a Mini has a floor-pan with the bodywork welded to it, and the wheels etc. also attached to it. So it's all in one piece. And you may be wrong - the 47 has a load bearing body, much like a modern monocoche (sp?) car. A class 58 is a different proposition again. Hello James all, I would still say that a class 47 may be said to have a chassis, as the base to which the monocoque body work is permanently attached (therefore load bearing). Whereas the class 58 has a set of frames, with the body work being non-load bearing. Maybe I should have said that a Land Rover has a set of frames, as the body is non-load bearing (class 58). But the Mini has a chassis as the body work is load bearing (class 47). OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 a class 47 may be said to have a chassis, as the base to which the monocoque body work is permanently attached That's made my day that has! The whole point of a monocoque unit is that it is all one piece - that is, no seperate chassis or body, it's all one and the same. There are different and inididual components which make up the whole but you can't really say one is the 'chassis'. From my engineering knowledge and understanding that would infer it was self supporting. Indeed, if you have a conventional chassis it would be a waste of materials to add a load bearing body - why not make it light weight when the forces are through the chassi?s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hello James, do they build the body first then put the supports for the engine on the bottom? No they make the floor pan (chassis) first then attach the body work to it so it all becomes one piece (as I said in my post). The load bearing body work is only between the cabs ( that is only to stop the lightweight chassis from bending under the weight), the part of the loco that has the most of the weight in it, carrying the engine, generator, etc. The buffing forces are therefore taken by (what?) the chassis (floor pan). As it's the only part of the loco to run from one end to the other, the body sides don't. The cab sides are carried on a light weight framework along with the cab fronts. That has no horizontal forces applied to it. If it's not called a chassis what is it called? Dictionary definition of chassis, framework of motor vehicle, definition of frame, structure; build of body, that in which thing is set. Dictionary definition of; framework:supporting structure. So the class 47 has a one piece body with two bits (the cabs) at each end. But the draw and buffing gear is attached to the chassis. The class 58 has a set of frames, that the non load bearing bodywork is attached. At your age I was working in heavy engineering, working on parts for Sulzer engines, parts for nuclear subs. and bits for things that you are better off having in front of you (a 150mm shell makes a bit of a mess when it lands and goes bang). OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 At your age I was working in heavy engineering, working on parts for Sulzer engines, parts for nuclear subs. and bits for things that you are better off having in front of you (a 150mm shell makes a bit of a mess when it lands and goes bang). I accept you have experience in engineering. I have an engineering degree, I have experience from my final year project of optimising structures for stress, volume, production and assembly followed by working on p-way projects and maintanence - the latter two not really having much relevance but give you an idea of my background. I also used to enjoy working with FEA to assist with the optimisation proceedure. However, that doesn't change the fact that the whole point of a monocoque sheel is that is is all of one piece where everything works as one. Manufacture may start with the bottom piece - gravity suggests it's an easy place to start. As such the structure has no chassis - the upper frame isn't there to merely stop the lower parts deforming, but will be taking loads as the lower parts tries to deform as forces as applied through the headstock, for example. If you look at a class 47, there are large diagonal struts which join the headstocks to the upper works, allowing forces to be transferred. Althougth the upper works will be lighter weight to keep the centre of gravity low, they form just as much an important part as the lower parts. It all works as one, with sub frames and other parts attached. The idea is to remove the need for a heavy chassis with a seperate body - often resulting in an overall structure which is lighter and stiffer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hello James all, I would still say that a class 47 may be said to have a chassis, as the base to which the monocoque body work is permanently attached (therefore load bearing). Whereas the class 58 has a set of frames, with the body work being non-load bearing. Maybe I should have said that a Land Rover has a set of frames, as the body is non-load bearing (class 58). But the Mini has a chassis as the body work is load bearing (class 47). OzzyO. :lol:That's made my day that has! The whole point of a monocoque unit is that it is all one piece - that is, no seperate chassis or body, it's all one and the same. There are different and inididual components which make up the whole but you can't really say one is the 'chassis'. From my engineering knowledge and understanding that would infer it was self supporting. Indeed, if you have a conventional chassis it would be a waste of materials to add a load bearing body - why not make it light weight when the forces are through the chassi?s Hello John, sorry for the take over. James, please read my underlined part in my quote. Then read your underlined reply. I'm not quit sure what your trying to say in your second underlined quote. The chassis for the 47 was a lot lighter than chassis for locos that had gone before. OzzyO. Edit to reply to James' last post. The large brackets behind the buffer beams are to help transmit the buffing and draw forces to the chassis not to the front body work. If you transmitted them forces to the front body work how do you get it pasted the door, via a very small strip above the door and about 6" below the door. Think of the body between the door as a girder bridge. It is no surprise that the main downwards force of the body weight on to the bogie is behind the cab doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 @ Ozzy O Master, No problem sir looks like an interesting debate, all i know is your both talking about loadbearing. Started on the black yesterday quite pleased with boiler rest is in the sun after a few touch ups after they all fell off my piece of cardboard onto the patio Can anyone tell me after painstakingly masking the tender wheels i still manange to get primer on them? primer was sprayed on Black has been handpainted. Grasshopper John. Edit, i noticed the front of the spectacle plate need a touch up so its done and in the sun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 ...monocoque sheel.... Is it made in Scotland? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Wheels painstakingly hand primed, the top and bottom right are perfect I checked them when i saw the photo, so the camera does indeed tell tales Grasshopper John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just a dry fit but looking ok, cab fits nicely, do you paint Body then the white lines or other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I accept you have experience in engineering. I have an engineering degree, (I could say something). I have experience from my final year project of [optimising] structures for stress. followed by working on p-way projects and [maintanence] - the latter two not really having much relevance but give you an idea of my background. I also used to enjoy working with FEA to assist with the [optimisation] [proceedure]. However, that doesn't change the fact that the whole point of a monocoque [sheel] is that is is all of one piece where everything works as one. Manufacture may start with the bottom piece - gravity suggests it's an easy place to start. As such the structure has no chassis - the upper frame isn't there to merely stop the lower parts deforming, but will be taking loads as the lower parts tries to deform as forces as applied through the headstock, for example. If you look at a class 47, there are large diagonal struts which join the [headstocks?] to the upper works, allowing forces to be transferred. [Althougth] the upper works will be lighter weight to keep the [centre] of gravity low, they form just as much an important part as the lower parts. It all works as one, with sub frames and other parts attached. The idea is to remove the need for a heavy chassis with a [seperate] body - often resulting in an overall structure which is lighter and stiffer. The wrong way to start a sentience. Is to start pointing out the faults in a reply to a message. But I have. IF you have a degree, it's not in spelling. . I don't have a degree, but one thing that I do have is experience of life and work. City and Guilds passes, 2nd year 3rd, 3rd year 1st plus a prize. 4th year 1st and a nice prize. Along with a nice set of indentures. So please don't put the :rofl: , on a reply. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 And my dad is bigger than your dad. Come on guys, back to modelling please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 And my dad is bigger than your dad. Come on guys, back to modelling please That is why I have moved it in to PMs. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 John, Paint and varnish the green first, then worry about lining. It's a whole new can of worms by itself. The splashers and the ejector pipe should both be green. Depending on the loco you choose, the cylinders might also be black or green. Cab roof is probably also green up to the rainstrips. Colour Rail do some good shots of A3s in LNER lined green if you can get a look at one, or see if the library can get you Brain Haresnape's book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 John, Paint and varnish the green first, then worry about lining. It's a whole new can of worms by itself. The splashers and the ejector pipe should both be green. Depending on the loco you choose, the cylinders might also be black or green. Cab roof is probably also green up to the rainstrips. Colour Rail do some good shots of A3s in LNER lined green if you can get a look at one, or see if the library can get you Brain Haresnape's book. Thanks for the advice Jonathan, i dont really model to anything specific if im honest i sort of make it up i keep looking at this also for a bit of guidance. Regards John. http://www.flickr.com/photos/38214920@N05/6971847735/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 name='John[/color] Fla' timestamp='1338204309' post='701729']Wheels painstakingly hand primed, the top and bottom right are perfect I checked them when i saw the photo, so the camera does indeed tell tales Grasshopper John. Hand painting wheels above and beyond the call of duty. Just use a rattle can of grey primer on them. You may be able to get the green in a rattle can, I'm not sure? Spraying them is a lot easer than brush painting them. You will have to brush paint the black but thats not as bad as painting spokes. OzzyO. PS. I don't know why I'm getting the green highlights? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 I would OzzyO but masking them was a nighmare Its all going to be hand painted I think green is rather fetching on you Grasshopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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