Weathering with ink and weathering powders - O Gauge Ruston 48DS

[DavidH]

Sorry Barry, but I've never seen an operational covered van that looks quite like that. Look at this Paul Bartlett photo - the underframe brown/grot covers all the underframe, including the frames, with prominent oil stains at and around pivots and axleboxes.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brvanplanked/h2fb14f29#h35ef42b6

 

There are plenty of other vans in the same folder with similar oil staining. Most of them have heavier dirt patterns on the body too, especially around the strapping.

 

The coal wagon's looking good, however.

[Barry O]

David

 

which one are you talking about - the sheeted van or the BR (WR) one?

 

Baz

[DavidH]

David

 

which one are you talking about - the sheeted van or the BR (WR) one?

 

Baz

 

The BR(WR) one, as the one without the sheet doesn't have any apparent "rust" on the underframe. It does have a couple of glue marks, however, but I'm sure you've spotted them and covered them up - I always find enlarged photos so cruel.

 

On the other hand, the comments could equally apply to both, as Paul Bartlett's pictures show wagons in various states or decrepitude, but many of the ones in colour have very similar areas of oil staining, particularly around the brake lever pivot and axleboxes.

Edited October 27, 2016 by DavidH

[Barry O]

David 

 

thanks for that

 

If you would care to look at Pg 39  of London Midland Steam in Colour (Hugh Ballantyne) and Pg 55 North Eastern Steam - Steam Portfolio 5 ( Maurice Johnson) you will see the weathering used on the WR van.

 

Paul Bartletts photographs are very good but also a lot later than the period the wagon is set in (hence the use of the colour photographs from the mid 1960s in the books above). Note that vehicles marked VVV, ZRV and those marked Cond  show a van at the very end of life. The period modelled on the layout is 1960/61.

 

The glue marks have gone, photography may be cruel but it can be useful.

 

Baz

[DavidH]

Hi Barry, I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with you - we're talking here about wagon designs that hadn't changed much in decades. I wouldn't insult your intelligence by pointing you to a picture of a modern air-braked wagon that had never operated in a steam-and-soot-filled world, and try to compare like with unlike.

 

I propose that oil-staining and the pattern of wear/dirt for a humble, planked, 4 wheel, 12T van in 1976 (the date of the photo) is not going to be much different from those on a wagon in 1966 or 1956, except that the wagon in question won't be picking up soot from steam engines anymore - but no one is going to have cleaned all of them post-1968 so a new type of weathering can arise. The only really likely difference in 1976 is more rust on withdrawn or internal user wagons. Paul's pictures I agree do include some withdrawn wagons, but not all of them.

 

I have other colour albums, not the ones you point to sadly, but I do have Robert Hendry's book (British Railway Goods Wagons in Colour), and various others of more Southern-specialisation, and many, many wagons in these books have the distinctive smear of oil in the places I mentioned. The rust/dirt brown covers all of the frames as well in many of these photos (albeit overlaid with oil in places mentioned).

 

I accept your word on the photos you're working from. However, for me, the van you've painted simply does not look like a typical 12T van of the type I've seen in many pictures, and what I am aiming towards: dirty, unloved, a bit rusty, and oil-stained.

 

David

[Barry O]

Weathering this weekend at our show in Leeds.

 

Come and have a go.

 

Baz

[DavidH]

Hi Barry, just as a postscript, I've now seen the photos on the pages you are referring to ... and I don't think we're looking at the same images. The complete vans in those pictures (one Southern, one BR plywood) appear to have the same oily/dusty/dirty finish that Paul Bartlett's photos show.

[Barry O]

Dear Mr Helmsley, I am happy to see your comments.

 

My client has already got these vans (and a copy of these books) and is very happy with them. He makes use of colour photographs from books we both have to let me know how he wants the vans weathered. Note he uses it as an illustration so the vehicle in the photograph is not necessarily the same as the model to be weathered wagon.

 

Hopefully we will see your versions soon with authentic condemned wagon paint finishes to match those of both Paul Bartlett's very good photographs, and the more recently built vans shown in the books I mentioned.

 

Let us all in on your techniques as I am certain that people would all like to see the process you use on your wagons.

 

 

Baz

[DavidH]

Oh dear, we've gone all formal ... Mr Oliver.

 

Yes, I have done some weathering, a while ago, and I did it with reference to Martyn Welch's book and plenty of prototype photos. Rest assured that when I have some new work that I'm happy with I shall share photos, and certainly will be willing to listen to well-argued criticism and advice from people who practice the art. You are welcome to comment then.

 

However, we're talking here about your work (this is your thread not mine). You appear to have fixated on the date of the photos, and then used this as a reason to reject the point I was making - I've said I accept some are condemned, but not all. But I laid out my reasoning in the post above and won't repeat it here.

 

I have looked at the photos you mentioned, and all I can say is, you and I seem to be seeing different things.  Assuming I have the correct pages, here are the wagons in the photos:

 

 

(Photo sources: Pg 39 of London Midland Steam in Colour (Hugh Ballantyne) and Pg 55 North Eastern Steam - Steam Portfolio 5 ( Maurice Johnson). Small portion of both images used to make sure we are looking at the same photos. Copyright: original photographers, see books for details)

 

Note, I wasn't attacking the rest of your work, and I wasn't attacking you, I was simply saying that the 12T van chassis below looks nothing like I've ever seen:

 

[Fat Controller]

Not sure about the brake lever, but I have seen that rusty effect on W-irons and axleboxes when a wagon has 'run hot', and the oil/grease residues around the 'boxes and springs has burnt off. It used to be particularly noticeable on minerals that had travelled a few miles with brakes pinned down. 

This photo from PB's collection shows the effect I mean:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brvanplanked/h21972940#h21972940

Edited October 30, 2016 by Fat Controller

[NHY 581]

Weathering is very subjective and relies on a number of variables. Individual technique applied, individual interpretation of the subject, be it photo or real life and the perception of the viewer of the finished article to name but three things. The common thing entwined in all these three are the human element.

 

Barry, your technique is clearly something you are happy with and you advise us your customers are to. You impart your techniques at exhibitions with some success I gather.Fine. Enough said.

 

My own experiments in weathering use different techniques as I rely almost exclusively on powders as I prefer the dusty look it gives me. I have received PM's from people who take issue with the results I end up with. But I am happy with what I do and ultimately I like the look I get with my stock and layout.

 

Do I want to replicate your finish? No but that does not mean I don't admire your work and learn from it.

 

Dave is simply making an observation as did the person who felt the need to PM me. Did I change anything I do as a result.....No. Did I dismiss the observations made? No.

 

I did exactly as you did, evidence my source material by way of photos.

 

Unlike you, I do not work to specific examples as I am not so skilled, but try to engender an overall look.

 

So what I am trying to say,I guess is anybody who puts themselves out there by way of illustrating techniques and results will draw comment. None of us are perfect and above critique.

 

Weathering is a very subjective thing. I illustrate a couple of mine.

 

Rob.

[DavidH]

I have found on an old external storage disk a few "I did earlier" - nearly 10 years ago, before I moved house and went into model hibernation for about 6 years. With a pending house sale and embryonic layout being packed up, it might be a while before I can do more. Both were done following Martyn Welch's ideas.

 

I'm not 100% satisfied with either wagon, yet, but this gives an idea of the results I was trying to achieve in 2007, and the methods I hope to use again, in time. (If I can remember what I did!)

 

I particularly admired the work of JWelleans and Tom Foster, which I saw examples of last weekend at Hartlepool, and will be attempting to use their methods next time. Will I learn from the techniques in this thread? - yes, definitely. Doesn't everyone learn from other people, on the way to creating their own work?

 

(Apologies for the poor lighting and quality of the photographs. I hadn't yet learnt about close-up photo lighting, and the flash tends to make it all look lighter than it really is.)

 

[Jamiel]

Great to catch up today and see some weathering being demonstrated at the Leeds show today, and also to see so many old friends there. I had a lovely time.

Hope to see everyone from Leeds MRS soon.

Jamie

[Barry O]

Latest locomotive.. SWD sound chip fitted, speaker in boiler pointing towards the chimney and then lightly weathered.

 

Welcome, Hornby A4 Merlin. 

 

 

regauged using etched chassis overlays and EM wheels by Mike Edge

 

 

Baz

[Barry O]

Bit of track weathering undertaken this week on the Liverpool Overhead Railway on Herculaneum Dock.  Mike has posted a load of pictures but this one I like most 

 

(photo copyright M D Edge 2016)

 

 

The "dirt" between the metal track supports uses some desert "dust" from the USA applied dry then ink and water added.

 

Baz

Edited November 11, 2016 by Barry O

[Barry O]

If you want to try out weathering then come along to Stand A61 at the Warley NEC Exhibition this Saturday and Sunday

 

Baz

[Barry O]

One of my fellow demonstrators at Warley (davey4270 on here) asked me to weather one of his small O gauge shunting locos..

 

And the result is ..

 

 

 

Photo Courtesy of davey 4270.

 

Baz

[Dudley]

Hi Barry,

 

Just a quick question: is it best to use the ink - any ink - neat rather than diluted? I've been trying for some time now 1 x ink to 30 x water + 1 windscreen fluid (as breaker of surface tension) as recommended by A.N.Other modeller but the fluid tends to form 'puddles' on my models almost as if there's too much surface tension. Of course I could try this myself but just wondered what your thoughts were please?

 

I also weather with pastel and watercolour pencils on top of acrylic base paints to give very small and subtle moss/ staining like this http://dudleysphotos.zenfolio.com/p247877316/h2446051a#h3b066ede

In this example it's on a 3D wagon which typically has a lovely texture from the manufacturing process, it all helps!

 

Kind regards,

Dudley

[Barry O]

Hello Dudley,

If you use undiluted ink it produces a very dark (if you use black ink) semi gloss sheen.

Are you using drawing inks? I use Fitting black and Windsor and Newton non acrylic inks.

 

Rather than windscreen fluid I use washing up liquid, one little drop in my 10% ink, 90% water mix.

 

Some of the recent paint supplies can produce a "greasy" surface so it needs more work to get weathering to stick.

 

Does that help?

 

I do like the 3D printed wagon. I haven't weathered any printed items yet but the slightly less flat surfaces should help the weathering process.

Baz

[Dudley]

Thanks for your reply Baz. I only have experience with Indian ink and would concur that it does feel like there's more work? effort? involved in getting the ink wash to er, wash over the model. Given your thoughts at least I know I'm on the right track re mix and application.

I appreciate your help,

Dudley

[Barry O]

I have just delivered these to a client. - 3 off  O gauge Lionheart Berry Wiggins tanks. 

 

A clean tanker and a clean tanker - client spec was for "light" weathering

 

 

and a shot of the dirty one

 

 

Baz

.

[halsey]

couple of loco's Barry weathered for me at Warley, straight out of the box Bachmann.

 

ROD..

 

rod.JPG

 

Super D

 

super d.JPG

 

I'm gobsmacked at the quality of the back scene, let alone the Loco, how was that cliff/rock face done???

[Barry O]

I'm gobsmacked at the quality of the back scene, let alone the Loco, how was that cliff/rock face done???

You will need to ask Mike Delamar as he took the photos with his locos on a layout.

Baz

[halsey]

You will need to ask Mike Delamar as he took the photos with his locos on a layout.

Baz

 

Thanks - I have just PM'd him

[Barry O]

No problem.