Dave F more photos added 21 June from 1947 to 1955ish

[DaveF]

We'll spend this evening in and around Nottingham watching trains.

 

Toton up reception sidings 8F 48604 up goods c1953 JVol7119

 

 

Nottingham London Road Junction Tilbury tank 2103 c1949 JVol7121

 

 

Nottingham Midland Fairburn 4MTT 42146 up pass c1952 JVol7122

 

 

Nottingham London Road Junction 4F 4585 up goods c1948 JVol7123

 

 

Nottingham Midland 4F 44394 le c1950 JVol7124

 

 

Nottingham Victoria A5 69817 le c1952 JVol7125

 

 

Nottingham London Road Junction 1FT 41686 shunting c1949 JVol7126

 

 

Nottingham Victoria N7 69815 down pass c1950 JVol7129

 

 

David

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I wonder if A5s will be on everyone's wish lists next year?

[Guest]

7117 - About the only time I've ever seen a Garratt look menacing. Great shot. Your dad certainly had an eye for a good pic.

 

(Edit. Write out 100 times, There are TWO Ts in Garratt.)

Edited May 29, 2013 by Guest

[Rob F]

We'll spend this evening in and around Nottingham watching trains. Toton up reception sidings 8F 48604 up goods c1953 JVol7119.jpgToton up reception sidings 8F 48604 up goods c1953 JVol7119  Nottingham London Road Junction Tilbury tank 2103 c1949 JVol7121.jpgNottingham London Road Junction Tilbury tank 2103 c1949 JVol7121  Nottingham Midland Fairburn 4MTT 42146 up pass c1952 JVol7122.jpgNottingham Midland Fairburn 4MTT 42146 up pass c1952 JVol7122  Nottingham London Road Junction 4F 4585 up gods c1948 JVol7123.jpgNottingham London Road Junction 4F 4585 up goods c1948 JVol7123  Nottingham Midland 4F 44394 le c1950 JVol7124.jpgNottingham Midland 4F 44394 le c1950 JVol7124  Nottingham Victoria A5 69817 le c1952 JVol7125.jpgNottingham Victoria A5 69817 le c1952 JVol7125  Nottingham London Road Junction 1FT 41686 shunting c1949 JVol7126.jpgNottingham London Road Junction 1FT 41686 shunting c1949 JVol7126  Nottingham Victoria N7 69815 down pass c1950 JVol7129.jpgNottingham Victoria N7 69815 down pass c1950 JVol7129  David

With regard to 7122, I am not certain about this, but should this strictly be referred to as a down train? The mileposts on this section number via the Melton line (and still do) and continue northwards via Mansfield Junction. The numbering via Leicester (and thus 'up') only commences once Mansfield Junction is passed.

 

Once again, thanks for the fantastic pics.

 

Rob

[DaveF]

With regard to 7122, I am not certain about this, but should this strictly be referred to as a down train? The mileposts on this section number via the Melton line (and still do) and continue northwards via Mansfield Junction. The numbering via Leicester (and thus 'up') only commences once Mansfield Junction is passed.

 

Once again, thanks for the fantastic pics.

 

Rob

 

Rob,

 

I have to admit that I'm never quite sure about up and down around Nottingham.    I suspect that Dad was thinking about the train's final destination, but I cannot be certain.

 

Of course in Midland days, when Derby was the centre of operations all trains were up to Derby and down away from it!

 

The 1980 sectional appendix, the only one I have which includes the Nottingham area,  shows Up as being west from Nottingham and Down as being eastwards.

 

Nottingham was unusual in that trains could go to London from both ends of the station at this time!

 

David

Edited May 30, 2013 by DaveF

[Fat Controller]

Rob,

 

I have to admit that I'm never quite sure about up and down around Nottingham.    I suspect that Dad was thinking about the train's final destination, but I cannot be certain.

 

Of course in Midland days, when Derby was the centre of operations all trains were up to Derby and down away from it!

 

The 1980 sectional appendix, the only one I have which includes the Nottingham area,  shows Up as being west from Nottingham and Down as being eastwards.

 

Nottingham was unusual in that trains could go to London from both ends of the station at this time!

 

David

This is still how it's shown in the relevant volume of Quail; the chainage works the opposite way to the usual, as it's shown as increasing as you go 'Up'. Nottingham East Junction is at 123.27, whilst Mansfield Junction is at 124.22. Mansfield Junction is shown as a 'mileage meet', where mileages via Melton and Loughborough met. Both appear to use St Pancras as a datum point. At some time, presumably during either the post-Grouping or the post-Nationalisation period, the datum point was changed. I wonder where else the 'rule' of mileage increasing as one moves down the 'Down' line applies?

Nottingham was one of a few places where you could travel directly to London on the same company's trains in both directions; there would have been. quite a few places where you could do it on different companies, with Exeter St Davids and Chester coming to mind.

[Oldddudders]

Nottingham was one of a few places where you could travel directly to London on the same company's trains in both directions; there would have been. quite a few places where you could do it on different companies, with Exeter St Davids and Chester coming to mind.

Dover Piggery!

[Fat Controller]

Dover Piggery!

I try not to think of Dover- it's bad enough living near the place.

[The Stationmaster]

This is still how it's shown in the relevant volume of Quail; the chainage works the opposite way to the usual, as it's shown as increasing as you go 'Up'. Nottingham East Junction is at 123.27, whilst Mansfield Junction is at 124.22. Mansfield Junction is shown as a 'mileage meet', where mileages via Melton and Loughborough met. Both appear to use St Pancras as a datum point. At some time, presumably during either the post-Grouping or the post-Nationalisation period, the datum point was changed. I wonder where else the 'rule' of mileage increasing as one moves down the 'Down' line applies?

Nottingham was one of a few places where you could travel directly to London on the same company's trains in both directions; there would have been. quite a few places where you could do it on different companies, with Exeter St Davids and Chester coming to mind.

I've never thought there was any 'rule' at all about mileage being relevant to Up & Down directions but that might be because i spent too long near Trowbridge/Bradford Jcns where lines change from Up to Down, and back again, depending on where you are e.g. a train from Swindon to Westbury is travelling in the Down direction until it reaches Bradford Jcn, then becomes Up until it reaches Hawkeridge Jcn at which point it again becomes Down.  And you can of course leave Trowbridge in either direction and run to Paddington without reversal, or even back to Trowbridge without reversal.

[DaveF]

Another mix of locations and subjects this afternoon, both ex LNER and LMSR.

 

 

Nottingham Victoria N7 down pass c1950 JVol7132

 

 

Lincoln Central B17 61641 Gayton Hall down ex pass c1953 JVol7133

 

 

Barkston O2 63932 down iron ore c1952 JVol7135

 

 

Grantham A4 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower down Flying Scotsman c1949 JVol7136

 

 

Nottingham Loco L and Y 2F shunting c1948 JVol7137

 

 

 

Grantham V2 up pass c1952 JVol7138

 

 

Millers Dale LNWR 2P 2-4-2T Millers Dale to Buxton c1952 JVol7141

 

 

Nottingham Midland West signalbox signalman c1952 JVol7146

Edited May 30, 2013 by DaveF

[DaveF]

Grantham, around Nottinghamshire and even York this evening.  It's very apparent that like most railway photographers Dad had his favourite locations which he visited many times.

 

Nottingham Midland West Box c1952 JVol7146a

 

 

York J27 65874 down goods c1953 JVol7149

 

 

Grantham V2 60897 up goods c1953 JVol7152

 

 

Grantham A5 69803 up pass c1953 JVol7157

 

 

Bulwell Common O4 63583 up goods c1952 JVol7161

 

 

Kimberley GN J5 up goods c1951 JVol7163

 

 

Trowell 8F 48056 down goods c1953 JVol7164

 

 

Bobbers Mill 8F 48314 l e c1953 JVol7166

 

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

[62613]

 I wonder where else the 'rule' of mileage increasing as one moves down the 'Down' line applies?

 

From Manchester London Road to Marylebone?

[Peter Kazmierczak]

A sublime portrait of a signalman David.

[Fat Controller]

'I've been a Box Boy for forty-five years- I wonder if they'll let me pull the levers before I retire?'

[65179]

I like photo 7141 at Millers Dale.  This is probably Buxton's (4)6616 which ended up being the last of these 2-4-2Ts.

 

Simon

[DaveF]

The first set for today are once again mainly on ex Midland and Great Central lines around Nottingham.

 

Trowell 3F 43823 down goods c1950 JVol7169

 

 

Basford 8F 48415 up goods c1951JVol7170

 

 

Basford Tilbury Tank 41947 Nottingham to Mansfield c1951JVol7171

 

 

Nottingham Midland Tilbury Tank 41943 Nottingham to Worksop c1951 JVol7172

 

 

New Basford J6 64249 down pass c1951 JVol7173

 

 

New Basford V2 60918 down goods c1951 JVol7174

 

 

Grantham A4 60032 Gannet down Norseman c1952 JVol7175

 

 

Loughborough Midland 4F 44160 down goods c1950 JVol7176

 

 

David

[DaveF]

I'm likely to be busy later today so I'm posting this evenings set now!

 

This time we manage to visit all of the Big Four and see one loco in a short lived condition.

 

Loughborough Midland Beyer Garratt down iron ore c1950 JVol7177

 

 

Chester 28xx 3861 and 43xx l e c1951 JVol7178

 

 

Rugby Patriot down pass c1952 JVol7180

 

 

Grantham C12 shunting c1952 JVol7183

 

 

Rugby Brittania 70044 down Comet Westinghouse brake fitted to loco 1953 JVol7184

 

 

Nottingham Victoria B1 61225 ecs and B12 ecs c1952 JVol7185

 

 

Barkston B12 61553 up pass c1953 JVol7186

 

 

Shoreham by Sea E4 l e and M7 30049 up push pull c1952 JVol7189

 

David

Edited May 31, 2013 by DaveF

[t-b-g]

Interesting leading carriage on 7180. It sounds almost too daft to be true but I would lay odds that the leading carriage is in LNWR livery.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Tony

[cctransuk]

...I would lay odds that the leading carriage is in LNWR livery.

Hardly! .... it's just the light catching the upper panels, the lower ones not doing so due to the tumblehome.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[t-b-g]

Hardly! .... it's just the light catching the upper panels, the lower ones not doing so due to the tumblehome.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Normally I would agree with you 100% but there is a distinct dark strip along the top edge of the side and dark looking verticle beading.  There is also a distinct change in colour at the exact place where it changed on the LNWR livery and an impression (admittedly from a poor quality reproduction) that there are curved corners to the dark panelling.

 

The tumblehome on LNWR carriages was very slight and if you compare it to the later LMS carriage behind it, the upper side is at a quite different angle to the light. It is also filthy and as such, light reflection is minimal. It also explains why the "white" is so dark.

 

I felt a bit silly even suggesting it (especially after somebody was misled by a photo prompting a similar question on L & Y livery recently) but as somebody who has painted many a LNWR carriage in 4mm scale, the first thing I thought when I saw it was "Flipping Heck!" that is still in LNWR livery.

 

I really can't convince myself that it is all over red/maroon/lake or that it is in BR Red/Cream so that leaves LNWR.

 

I would expect to be proved wrong as I really can't believe that a carriage would be in that livery in the 50s but I really think that the camera has caught something rather unusual!

 

Tony

[DaveF]

Normally I would agree with you 100% but there is a distinct dark strip along the top edge of the side and dark looking verticle beading.  There is also a distinct change in colour at the exact place where it changed on the LNWR livery and an impression (admittedly from a poor quality reproduction) that there are curved corners to the dark panelling.

 

The tumblehome on LNWR carriages was very slight and if you compare it to the later LMS carriage behind it, the upper side is at a quite different angle to the light. It is also filthy and as such, light reflection is minimal. It also explains why the "white" is so dark.

 

I felt a bit silly even suggesting it (especially after somebody was misled by a photo prompting a similar question on L & Y livery recently) but as somebody who has painted many a LNWR carriage in 4mm scale, the first thing I thought when I saw it was "Flipping Heck!" that is still in LNWR livery.

 

I really can't convince myself that it is all over red/maroon/lake or that it is in BR Red/Cream so that leaves LNWR.

 

I would expect to be proved wrong as I really can't believe that a carriage would be in that livery in the 50s but I really think that the camera has caught something rather unusual!

 

Tony

 

Tony,

 

 I've had a look at the original print, which must have been done from a smallish portion of the negative judging by the grain and lack or overall crispness.  It is, if anything, clearer on screen!

 

I suspect it was a very dirty BR crimson and cream.  Unlike a number of dad's prints, where he made a note of anything interesting on the back, the back of this one is blank.

 

The apparent darkness of the beading could in part be caused by the degree of sharpening I had to do in Photoshop, it does tend to emphasise any relief and shadows.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

David

[DaveF]

A number of Southern ones again this afternoon as well as some other locations.

 

Shoreham by Sea 2BIL 2063 down pass c1952 JVol7190

 

 

Hove K class 32337 goods c1952JVol7191

 

 

Brighton loco E4 32515 shunting c1952 JVol7192

 

 

Loughborough Midland Class 5 44847 down pass c1953 JVol7194

 

 

Nottingham Victoria N7 69620 ecs c1953 JVol7196

 

 

Brighton 10203 l e c1952 JVol7198

 

 

Skegness Miniature Railway c1952 JVol7200

 

 

Manchester London Road N5 69256 shunting c1954 JVol7201

 

 

David

[DaveF]

This evening we go on very brief visits to a number of locations around Britain ranging from the south coast to Scotland.

 

Brighton E3 32169 c1952 JVol7202

 

 

Brighton 10001 c1954 JVol7203

 

 

Nottingham London Road Junction 4F 44416 ecs c1953 JVol7204

 

 

Daybrook K3 61833 down goods c1954 JVol7207

 

 

Trent 8F up goods c1952 JVol7217

 

 

Cambridge B1 1287 shunting van c1947 JVol7221

 

 

Kingmoor Carlisle Jubilee Class 5678 De Robek up goods June 1948 JVol7237

 

 

Perth NB goods J83 June 1948 JVol7239

 

 

David

Edited June 4, 2013 by DaveF

[t-b-g]

Tony,

 

 I've had a look at the original print, which must have been done from a smallish portion of the negative judging by the grain and lack or overall crispness.  It is, if anything, clearer on screen!

 

I suspect it was a very dirty BR crimson and cream.  Unlike a number of dad's prints, where he made a note of anything interesting on the back, the back of this one is blank.

 

The apparent darkness of the beading could in part be caused by the degree of sharpening I had to do in Photoshop, it does tend to emphasise any relief and shadows.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

David

 

Thanks for looking.

 

More superb shots appearing daily!

 

Never mind a book, that lot would make a smashing series!

 

I won't have access to any LNWR carriage books until Wednesday when I visit a friend but I am also puzzled as to the type of vehicle. It is a bit unusual in that it looks to have 4 pairs of double doors and it looks like some kind of full brake.

 

There are folk on here who know a lot more about LNWR carriages than I do, who could probably look at it and instantly identify it as such and such a diagram.

 

If it is a full brake, red and cream becomes less likely as a livery. In that period, I would have thought that any surviving LNWR full brakes, would have been all over red, either LMS or early BR.

 

What happened to the royal train vehicles during and immediately after the war? Weren't they still in LNWR livery and is there a chance that some of the less exotic vehicles got used in normal service?

 

I love a good mystery and I firmly believe that your dad photographed one there!

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

[AberdeenBill]

JVol7177 (post 689) is just an amazing photo.  Perhaps the date is slightly later, as the brand new iron ore tipplers probably date from 1951.  It also seems to suggest that they didn't have the IRON ORE TIPPLER branding to begin with?

 

Bill

 

(edit to add content)

Edited June 1, 2013 by AberdeenBill